Best mic for Recording Live Music

[reichmiller]

Hi.

I just bought a MZ-M200 and plan to record live music at local gigs (mainly female singer-piano based music).

I am brand new to this so this may be a dumb question but:

My question is what is the best mic for this that isn't outrageously expensive? The mic that came with the recorder has a lot of feedback/hissing noise (ECM-DS70P).

Thanks so much.

[King Ghidora]

What you mean by "isn't outrageously expensive" goes a long way in determining what mic would be best for you.

If you want a stereo mic you might choose one of these. I can vouch for the Nady CM-2S in the $100-$120 range. I have a couple of clips of my recordings of a bluegrass band posted online here and here. The most common criticism of this mic is that it picks up too much echo but I think that problem can be limited. Keep in mind that these clips are just a practice session recorded in a living room so conditions are not ideal. Still you might get an idea of what to expect from the Nady.

If you want to go more expensive the AT822 is a popular choice at around $250. Going higher you might choose a matched pair of Rode NT5's which is over $400.

You might want a cheaper mic than the Nady. You could choose the Sony ECM-MS907 at around $75 or the AT Pro 24 for around $70.

There are many other quality mics available in all price ranges. You might want a headset type mic for binaural type recordings. You might want a mic that is easy to conceal so you can tape where tapers aren't really welcome. Or you could choose a mono mic for just a piano and a single singer. There a lot of different types of mics in the world. I would choose the Nady for the situation you described. In fact I did choose the Nady for similar situations. I also have a Sony ECM-MS907 that I've had a few years. I have many mics actually because different situations call for different mics. Maybe you could get back with us and be more specific on what you want. A little research here could go a long way for you. For a single mic I think a single point stereo mic is a good choice but I'm sure there are others who disagree with me. There are folks here who put together excellent mics for various purposes. I'd suggest that you read a few of the threads already posted on this subject. There are many of them. This subject comes up a lot.

[Antala]

Hey King Ghidora I need your help and your advice.

I saw you before in the Panasonic 3CCD Forums and I will be buying a Stereo Microphone for the only purpouse of recording a Rock Live Band. I don't have access to the Sound Board and I think I will be getting the Nady CM2S to record the Audio.

I will be recording the Video with a Panasonic PV-GS300 and my doubt is this one: Is a recording machine necessary to get a better quality sound? Because as you know the PV-GS300 has a Mic input and I want to know if spending $80.00-$150.00 for a Net MD is necessary?

By the way from you experience is the Nady CM2S(130US) better than the Rode Stereo VideoMic(270US) and AT Pro 24(70US). I know that the price difference between these Mics is a lot but whats the best choice for Price/Quality?

Also If I need a Recording Device what's a good one between $80.00-$150.00?

Thanks a lot!!

[King Ghidora]

The problem with recording music with the GS300 is that it doesn't have manual level control. That's a killer for recording music. I made the mistake of buying a GS250 instead of a GS400. They're great cameras and take fantastic video but you really can't record music correctly with AGC (auto gain control).

So yes you will need a separate recorder to do music justice. Not too long ago it was possible to buy a new first generation HIMD recorder for under $100. Unfortunately the price seems to have gone up. But the good news is you can probably still get a HIMD recorder for around $150 if you look around. That makes HIMD the best bargain for high quality recording. I've seen some deals like that on eBay recently but not that often. You might try emailing the company that was selling so many of the first gen units to see if they have any left in stock. They will probably give you a good price if they do. I can pm you their email address if you want. I don't like to post email addresses in an open forum because of the spam bots.

As for comparing the Nady with the Rode SVM it's really no contest. The Rode is much better. Of course it is made to be mounted to a camera but it also has the ability to be mounted to a mic stand or a boom. I've heard the Nady compared directly (almost anyway) with the AT822 and the Nady held it's ground nicely. It will pick up some echo if you don't set the level correctly and if the room is too bright. It's a little finnicky because of this but I think I can make it work pretty well if I work at it. That AT822 probably isn't as tempermental but it costs twice as much. As far as the Pro24 goes it is said to be an excellent budget mic but all you need to do is look at the specs and you'll see it won't record bass sounds well. It's only rated down to 100hz where the Nady is rated down to 30hz. That's a lot more of a difference that some might think.

Still the Pro24 is probably an excellent mic for the price. I used a Sony ECM-MS907 for years and it didn't have the bass response it should have. But that was the main reason I bought the Nady.

You may want to ask this question on other boards too. I'm sure you will get a lot of suggestions on mics. We tend to make the same suggestions over and over again and none of us can know everything about every mic. I don't like to suggest too much about mics I haven't used myself. I just know I've been happy with my Nady. You can check the sound samples for yourself and see what you think. Most important IMO is buying from a place that will let you return stuff if you don't like it. Musician's Friend will let you try stuff out for 45 days. That's hard to beat.

[Antala]

Hey Thanks a Lot King Ghidora your infomration was very useful.

I will get the Nady Mic because everyone says good comments about it for Recordig Live Concerts. The Rode SVC can be a better Mic but the price is twice so I will buy the Nady. I will be needing a Hi-MD recorder but there are very few options on Ebay and Ebay is my best option because I live in Mexico and a Friend has a P.O Box in Texas so I can use his Ebay account. Hey if you can PM any Ebay MiniDisc seller Email Address I will be very Thanked!!!

I went to the Sony Style Shop and they told me that the Minidisc players were discontinued and I was looking trough all the Shopping Mall but only 2 stores were selling the HI-MD but I was unlucky cause it didn't had the MIC Input. I remember some months ago sawing the Net MD & HiMD between 40% & 60% OFF but that was many months ago.

[A440]

It is well worth getting a Hi-MD, even if it is more expensive, than a NetMD.

Hi-MD will record CD-quality sound. NetMD will only record compressed sound--quite good, but just not as good as Hi-MD.

Hi-MD recordings can be uploaded as files to your computer. NetMD files have to be recorded out of the headphone jack, which not only takes longer--a realtime recording--but also lessens the quality of the recording further.

Since you are trying to make a video soundtrack you will probably need your audio as computer files. Hi-MD will save you a lot of time doing that. Look for the MZ-NH700.

[Antala]

It is well worth getting a Hi-MD, even if it is more expensive, than a NetMD.

Hi-MD will record CD-quality sound. NetMD will only record compressed sound--quite good, but just not as good as Hi-MD.

Hi-MD recordings can be uploaded as files to your computer. NetMD files have to be recorded out of the headphone jack, which not only takes longer--a realtime recording--but also lessens the quality of the recording further.

Since you are trying to make a video soundtrack you will probably need your audio as computer files. Hi-MD will save you a lot of time doing that. Look for the MZ-NH700.

Hey A440 I saw this Model:Sony MZ-RH710 in a Local store at $170 dlls will it work?

[Karl P]

Hey A440 I saw this Model:Sony MZ-RH710 in a Local store at $170 dlls will it work?

It appears to me that the RH710 is a player only, NOT a recorder. Be careful with the model numbers, they can be pretty confusing, and the vastly different feature sets don't help either. I ended up getting a RH1 partly because I didn't want to worry about if this or that would be good enough.

[greenmachine]

The RH710 is a recorder, but has only the line/optical input, no preamplifier for microphone recording.

Edited March 15, 2007 by greenmachine

[King Ghidora]

The RH710 is a HIMD recorder though so a mic pre-amp added to this or a battery box could make this an excellent recorder.

[Karl P]

The RH710 is a recorder, but has only the line/optical input, no preamplifier for microphone recording.

The RH710 is a HIMD recorder though so a mic pre-amp added to this or a battery box could make this an excellent recorder.

See what I mean? So confusing... I really thought I checked and didn't see much... Thanks for clearing this up.

[King Ghidora]

Sorry about repeating your info greenmachine. I really should stop posting when I'm half asleep.

[Antala]

Thanks. I just bought the Nady CM-2S because after doing alot of investigation I saw it was the best choice for my needs.

I went to Local Electronic&Department stores and I saw the Hi-MD MZ-NH700 for $2,500.00 MXN Pesos($230 US) and I also saw the Hi-MD RH910 at $3,000.00 MXN Pesos($270 US). They are pretty expensive for "Old MiniDisc Technology" but in Ebay the MZ-NH700 is at $245.00 New so ain't that bad. I went to the Sony Style Shop and the Store guy told me they were discontinued.

I will do a visit to other Electronic Stores so wish me Luck!!!

[Antala]

By the way I have a doubt; I know that HI-MD is way better than the NetMD for many reasons but if I buy the Hi-MD I will be using mostly MD Discs not Hi-MD Discs, this is because the HI-MD Discs are expensive and I won't find them in here so is it still better to spend more money and buy a HI-MD Recorder if I will be using MD Normal Discs?

[greenmachine]

Hi-MD can record in the more efficient and upload-able Hi-MD format, even on standard MDs plus in the uncompressed PCM mode. For recording long sessions, less than a handful of 1GB discs would be sufficient, so it wouldn't be that much of an additional cost. You can always find them online if not available in your area.

[King Ghidora]

Thanks. I just bought the Nady CM-2S because after doing alot of investigation I saw it was the best choice for my needs.

I went to Local Electronic&Department stores and I saw the Hi-MD MZ-NH700 for $2,500.00 MXN Pesos($230 US) and I also saw the Hi-MD RH910 at $3,000.00 MXN Pesos($270 US). They are pretty expensive for "Old MiniDisc Technology" but in Ebay the MZ-NH700 is at $245.00 New so ain't that bad. I went to the Sony Style Shop and the Store guy told me they were discontinued.

I will do a visit to other Electronic Stores so wish me Luck!!!

You should be able to find HIMD cheaper than that. There's a place in England that still sells them considerably cheaper than the price you mentioned. I believe they will ship to Mexico.

BTW there are actually some advantages to using the older model HIMD recorders. They use AA batteries which many people think is a big advantage. Later models use a gumstick battery. They aren't exactly hard to find but they aren't sold in your local hardware store or gas station like AA's are.

[Antala]

You should be able to find HIMD cheaper than that. There's a place in England that still sells them considerably cheaper than the price you mentioned. I believe they will ship to Mexico.

BTW there are actually some advantages to using the older model HIMD recorders. They use AA batteries which many people think is a big advantage. Later models use a gumstick battery. They aren't exactly hard to find but they aren't sold in your local hardware store or gas station like AA's are.

Thanks for the advice; What I am worried is the Guarantee because maybe is worth to spend $30.00 or $40.00dlls more and buy it here in case my Unit has a Malfunction or something wrong. In case I buy a Hi-MD here I have the Guarantee from Sony Mexico or at many times I have it directly with the Store.

I will keep looking cause someone is offering me here in Mexico a New in Box RH-910 for $180.00dlls with an Additional GumStick Battery with shipping included. But to be honest I prefer the MZ-NH 700 Model so I will keep looking for that one. I already bought the Microphone so once my Mic arrives I will be connecting it to the Camcorder but thats only for now cause once I get the Hi-Md no way am using the Mic Input of my Camcorder.

I know that the MZ-NH 700 Model will be a tough one to get cause its 3 years Old but remember if its 3 years Old in USA is 6 months Old in Mexico and thats why many stores here have this Model but unlucky me the stores that have it are selling it at a High price so my only hope its to wait for discounts and discounts are coming because Hi-MD is not selling well and there is high demand for Ipods and MP3s.

[King Ghidora]

I actually think the price of HIMD will continue to go up as new models become more scarce. People who are strongly into HIMD will want to stock up on extra players before the end of the whole line comes. I think we have already seen the discounts on the first gen. units. I think the price will continue to stay high on those and the newer models. Prices were down last fall to about half of what they seem to be right now for first gen. HIMD.

My video camera is going through the same scenario. Newer cameras don't have the features cameras did 2 years ago so I could sell my camera now for more than I paid for it new. The price bottomed out about 14 months ago and it has gone up ever since. I think HIMD will do the same thing.

[Antala]

Thanks.

So I will get the RH-910 it ain´t that expensive considering the Free shipping and that its New. I can add a 2AA battery trough an adapter and I have many rechargeables so I think it will work fine for my recordings.

[Arni]

i use the sp-cmc-8 cardioid mic from www.soundprofessionals.com and the sennheiser MM-HLSC-2 cardioid from www.microphonemadness.com .

these mics sound totally diferrent...the sp-cmc-8 more clear and the sennheiser will NEVER distort no matter how loud or how much bass is involved with it´s ~140dB SPL when using a 9V battery box.

[pindralprogger]

What you mean by "isn't outrageously expensive" goes a long way in determining what mic would be best for you.

If you want a stereo mic you might choose one of these. I can vouch for the Nady CM-2S in the $100-$120 range.

Hi, I've read your recommendations regarding the Nady CM-2S...thanks. Curious how you, or anyone, feel it records in medium-loud to really loud situations. I have a Sony MZ M100 so I do have good control over recording settings. I have a couple of the budget priced Soundpro mics, one binural and one mini cardioid with built-in bass roll off, the later works well for really loud bassy stuff, but am looking for an alternative all-in-one stereo mic. The Nady looks very intriguing and Musician's Friend has them on sale now for $99-free shipping. thx

Edited March 29, 2007 by pindralprogger

[King Ghidora]

Hi, I've read your recommendations regarding the Nady CM-2S...thanks. Curious how you, or anyone, feel it records in medium-loud to really loud situations. I have a Sony MZ M100 so I do have good control over recording settings. I have a couple of the budget priced Soundpro mics, one binural and one mini cardioid with built-in bass roll off, the later works well for really loud bassy stuff, but am looking for an alternative all-in-one stereo mic. The Nady looks very intriguing and Musician's Friend has them on sale now for $99-free shipping. thx

I haven't actually used mine to record anything really loud yet but they have a high SPL rating. It's not the 140dB rating of the Sennheiser mentioned (and believe it or not I've probably been to a few rock concerts that approached that level - not any more though - that's serious hearing loss level and no one goes there anymore).

According to the manual the Nady is rated at 128db SPL which is still way louder than anything any of us should be listening to. We're talking an F-22 taking off with you standing right next to it at that level. Most rock concerts don't exceed 120db these days. It was back in the 1970's when sound levels were just stupidly high at times. I guarantee ZZ Top hit 140db when I saw them in Lexington, KY at the old Memorial Coliseum back in 1975. You feel actual pain at 140db.

About the only thing that I know of that would hit 140db these days would be a gunshot and of course that just lasts a fraction of a second. Maybe there are still some home stereos and car stereos that reach that level because of being in an enclosed space I guess. But 128db should be plenty high enough for anything you want to record. 128db SPL is very, very loud.

[pindralprogger]

According to the manual the Nady is rated at 128db SPL which is still way louder than anything any of us should be listening to. But 128db should be plenty high enough for anything you want to record. 128db SPL is very, very loud.

Thanks. Comparing the specs to my SP-CMC-19 Mini Standard Cardioid's seems the Nady can handle more in a few categories (if I'm reading right..not an expert by any means). I've recorded a few loud shows with those CMC-19's with nice results. So, I just ordered the Nady. Seems they'd might be better suited for a wider variety of recording applications and they are in my budget.

Thanks again!

[King Ghidora]

If you're using the battery module with that mic then it's rated at 120db SPL. Without the module it drops down to 105db. So either way the Nady exceeds the ratings on the SP-CMC-19. Ratings don't always tell the story because companies measure things differently but in this case I'd say you could record events at least as loud as those you could record with the SP-CMC-19.

[Antala]

Hey I Just Bought the MZ-NH700. It was in Great condition working perfectly with everything from box included plus a lavoriel Mic for $100.00 dlls with shipping but I still bought the Nady CM-2S for Concerts Recordings.

I took Arni advice and bought this model.I've been doing a lot of searching trough the forums, reading about software and hacks. I will use the Hi-MD only for recording cause I already have an MP3 Player so any tip for concert recording with the Nady Cm-2S or this Hi-MD model will be very welcome cause am New on this.

My Hi-MD will arrive next week I can't wait.

[A440]

I don't know of any hacks for the NH700. But I haven't wanted any either.

[The rest edited out because KG points out that the CM25 is a powered mic.]

Edited April 13, 2007 by A440

[King Ghidora]

The CM-2S is a very sensitive mic too. It has a high spl rating meaning it is capable of recording really loud stuff but a lot of recorders can't handle a signal that loud.

Are you sure that a self powered mic like the Nady will benefit from a battery box A440? I was under the impression it was only "plug in" powered mics that benefit from a battery box. I thought self powered mics already had a strong enough current to power them for loud sources. I have used my Nady plugged into the line in jack on my NHF800. It seems to have enough of an output to run that way. I'm sure a 9 volt power supply would be better than the volts the Nady gets from the AA battery that it uses but I believe there is circuitry to prevent a self powered mic from using power that comes in through the cable. I think I heard this in reference to the AT822 but I would assume other self powered mics would operate the same way. I have always understood it to be the case that a battery box was mainly to power the mic so that it wouldn't brick wall when faced with a sound signal that it didn't have enough power to move the diaphragm enough to handle properly. To avoid overloading the pre-amp you need to reduce the signal between the mic and the recorder. That's how I understand things.

You can use an inline volume control to reduce the signal between the mic and the recorder. It's a cheap fix to the problem of an overloaded pre-amp. In truth you are reducing your signal to noise ratio but with a concert level sound source no one will notice the s/n ratio is lower than it could be. There are other potential problems though like accidentally adjusting the ivc while you're recording resulting in either an overload and clipping or a signal that's too low. The good side is you can make adjustments while recording. But I wouldn't want to use an IVC while recording sounds that aren't so loud.

The Nady is rated to handle around 130db I believe. That's very loud. It's the pre-amp that you need to worry about overloading and you can prevent that with an IVC.

Edited April 13, 2007 by King Ghidora

[greenmachine]

I thought an attenuator was meant for recorders with mic-in only, without a lower sensitivity input (line-in). Why attenuate a signal and amplify it afterwards instead of recording straight without attenuation or amplification? It would seem to be the more direct and thus higher fidelity way - to me at least.

[A440]

Although it's not supposed to, I find a battery box provides a small but crucial boost in output--enough to send loud music through line-in without a problem, and sometimes enough to allow me to capture speech (close up) with Sound Pro BMC-2-->battery module-->Line-in.

Since the CM 25 is both powered and sensitive, the best thing to do would be to try it with power on through Line-in and see if the signal is strong enough for what you are recording, as it is for King Ghidora. Otherwise the attenuator via mic-in would work, but at the cost of fidelity.

Edited April 13, 2007 by A440

[King Ghidora]

I thought an attenuator was meant for recorders with mic-in only, without a lower sensitivity input (line-in). Why attenuate a signal and amplify it afterwards instead of recording straight without attenuation or amplification? It would seem to be the more direct and thus higher fidelity way - to me at least.

Recording to the line in jack is great if your signal is strong enough but if it isn't then you will need to record to the mic in jack or as A440 suggests perhaps a battery box does improve self powered mics enough so that you could use them with a line in jack. But if you're forced to go with the mic in jack and the signal is too strong for the pre-amps then you'll need to attenuate the signal somehow. There are of course cables designed for a specific amount of attenuation but an IVC can vary the strength of the signal. They come with problems of their own including the fact they usually aren't very durable and they pick up dirt in the pot all too easy resulting in noise. Plus there's the chance you'll accidentally make an adjustment without even knowing about it while recording. There are good and bad points for the IVC's and for attenuators.

[Antala]

My Sony MZ-NH700 arrived yesterday Am So Happy!!!!

This is the first Minidisc player I bought and am very happy with the quality of the recording I done so far.

Its in Great condition and the only thing thatw as missing was the Cd.

Thanks everyone for helping me!!!