Cycling redundancy error on a recorded HiMD

[gwel]

Hi,

I have recorded a live session with a microphone Sony-ECM719 and my Hi-MD Sony MZ-RH10.

While I was editing the tracks directly on the unit after the session, something went wrong. I remember I was pushing the "back" button to get fast previous from a few seconds in the song I was edited; that is when the problem occurred, the track was then unreadable, playing fast forward...It's readable with the MZ-RH10, but I can't hear anything, it plays very fast, with strange noises...

I have used SonicStageCP 4.2.02.11020 to upload all the tracks of my disc, the upload worked fine. I was surprised it worked with the damage track too. I have tried to export all these files in WAV format, it worked for each of them, except the damaged one...Problem is, this is the last track of my disc, and a big one, ther must be one hour of the session in it ! I have to get it back.

When I try to read the damaged uploaded file with SS, the hourglass cursor come, the track is not played...

When I try to copy the files of the disc directly on my PC, I get an error of cycling redundancy, it must be int the HMA file with all the recording data...I think there is only one error, like one byte, which crach everything. I read lots of posts about it, and this is often the case.

I tried to convert my damaged file with HIMDRenderer 0.54, the conversion worked fine, but the output file was only a 1Ko one ! Seems the software couldn't convert it too because of the error...I was full of hope :-)

The idea would be to make a chkdsk /f on the disc. But I know this can't work on Hi-MD discs, because they are special discs, not like classical harddrives...So I was wondering if there were a tool to make the same thing on the Hi-MD discs ?

It's really getting on my nerves that Sony doesn't propose any support and fix tools to its customers. I've been in touch with a recovery service in Austria, which apparently know how to do, but doesn't give any tools !!! This could be so helpful for many of us, to have a tool to fix our damaged recordings...Or at least a recovery service...

I have thought many times to develop my omn software to extract directly from the HMA files my audio data...Not for piracy purpose, DRM/copyright violation or else, but just to have a way to fix problems, and must of all, to recover MY data ! I've started doing something, like HIMDLister for the moment, to get the "spirit" of HiMD programming...But I didn't get any further...Maybe it would be possible to create a community project no ? I think there are lots of people on forums.minidisc.org, mdfr.com and other forums who could give a hand to create such a project. I'm ready to get involved in it. I don't know if it's possible...

Well. First of all, if someone know how I can fix my damaged track, I'm listening !

Thanks for any information concerning my request.

Edited May 27, 2007 by gwel

[Avrin]

From what you say (and you described your problem better than most forum members), it looks like nothing can be done. Remember: what the unit does without the computer is the most that you can get.

You have a CRC problem when copying directly. This can't be solved. Looks like damaged laser recording. Unfortunately, there is NO WAY to do anything like CHKDSK on a HiMD.

And as for a thought about HMA - many people are thinking of that! But information is encoded at the hardware level.

[gwel]

From what you say (and you described your problem better than most forum members), it looks like nothing can be done. Remember: what the unit does without the computer is the most that you can get.

You have a CRC problem when copying directly. This can't be solved. Looks like damaged laser recording. Unfortunately, there is NO WAY to do anything like CHKDSK on a HiMD.

And as for a thought about HMA - many people are thinking of that! But information is encoded at the hardware level.

Thanks a lot for your answer Avrin, even if you don't tell me good news !!!

Just a precision, the recording was fine, it crashes just when I edited it (pushing the "back" button for a while)...I'm pretty sure it's possible to do something, even if there is no solution today...And I'm lucky with a point, I've been able to upload the damaged track, so that I have it on my PC as an OMA file, not linked to hardware specificities...And it is complete !!! (192Mo)...I will try to work on it.

I won't give up !

Edited May 27, 2007 by gwel

[Avrin]

Wow, if you've got a COMPLETE OMA file on your computer - this is more than just good news! This is real luck! So, it wasn't damaged too much, after all - just some glitch probably.

Now convert it to WAV for a start.

[gwel]

Wow, if you've got a COMPLETE OMA file on your computer - this is more than just good news! This is real luck! So, it wasn't damaged too much, after all - just some glitch probably.

Now convert it to WAV for a start.

This is the problem. With SS, I can't convert the OMA file to WAV file. When I try to convert the track, the save dialog appears, I choose the place where I want to save my converted file, click Save, and then, the conversion progression windows appears for a few secondes, and close.

When I look to the converted file, it is a 1Ko one !!! (the source OMA file is a 192Mo one !!!). When I open this file with Winamp, I see the file has a lenght of 0 minutes, 0 secondes (0:00)...So the WAV conversion doesn't work.

I try the conversion with HIMDRenderer, which gives exactly the same thing.

I have to fix the OMA file. Is there any way to see what is in OMA file, and to find errors ? I think HIMDRenderer is able to analyze and convert such files, so that my guess is it is possible to know through this process where the problem happens. Using a debug mode of HIMDRenderer, it should be possible to identify the problem no ? And maybe to fix it.

Would an hex decoder be of any help ?

Thanks for any help.

Edited May 28, 2007 by gwel

[raintheory]

Try using MarC's Hi-MD Renderer Program: http://www.marcnetsystem.co.uk/

At one point his program was the only way to get .OMA files to .WAV format. I have had situations where his program will work and Sony's will fail/

[gwel]

Try using MarC's Hi-MD Renderer Program: http://www.marcnetsystem.co.uk/

At one point his program was the only way to get .OMA files to .WAV format. I have had situations where his program will work and Sony's will fail/

Thanks for your answer raintheory.

But as I mentionned in my two previous posts, I have already tried to convert my file with HIMDRenderer, and the result is the same as SS : a 1Ko WAV file...

That's why I was asking for a HIMDRenderer version with debug mode, which would allow me to see where the conversion crashes...

Edited May 28, 2007 by gwel

[raintheory]

Thanks for your answer raintheory.

But as I mentionned in my two previous posts, I have already tried to convert my file with HIMDRenderer, and the result is the same as SS : a 1Ko WAV file...

That's why I was asking for a HIMDRenderer version with debug mode, which would allow me to see where the conversion crashes...

Sorry about that, somehow I missed that!

Does the file actually play the whole way through in SonicStage?

[gwel]

Sorry about that, somehow I missed that!

Does the file actually play the whole way through in SonicStage?

Nope, not at all.

When I play the file in SonicStage, the hourglass cursor appears, and...nothing. It comes back to pointer cursor after a few seconds...But the file is not played. There is something wrong in the OMA file, I need a tool to analyze it...

[raintheory]

Try this if you get a chance:

Right-click on the file in SonicStage, and choose "Convert Format" (instead of Save in WAV...).. Now choose the original format. Be sure to uncleck "add copy protection".

Alternately, try choosing a different bitrate and see what happens.

The converted files will be in C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\SonicStage\Packages\Optimized Files.

Edited May 29, 2007 by raintheory

[gwel]

Try this if you get a chance:

Right-click on the file in SonicStage, and choose "Convert Format" (instead of Save in WAV...).. Now choose the original format. Be sure to uncleck "add copy protection".

Alternately, try choosing a different bitrate and see what happens.

The converted files will be in C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\SonicStage\Packages\Optimized Files.

Thanks for this advice.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work too. I have converted the file, choosing the same bitrate, the conversion is OK, the file converted is the exact copy of the original one, but I still can't play the converted one, or convert it to WAV file...

And strange thing, I can't convert the original file to another bitrate anymore, SonicStage tells me a conversion error occured while I was trying to convert file(s)...Strange...Same thing if I try to convert the converted file...But I checked with a valid file, it works perfectly.

I have to try something else...Is Marc (from HIMDRenderer) looking at this forum ? I would really like to ask him for a debug version of HIMDRenderer, or to submit him my OMA file if it is possible to read it on another PC than mine...

Edited May 29, 2007 by gwel

[marcnet]

Sorry, but a debug version would not help. HIMDRenderer uses the DLL's that Sonicstage installs/uses itself to do all the OMA decoding. This is why you get the same result with my program as with Sonicstage.

So if the OMA file is damaged, then neither HIMDRenderer or Sonicstage can repair it.

You could try again with HIMDRenderer, let it fail as it did before and then use the "bug report" feature of HIMDRenderer to send me the log file (this is done automatically when you press "Send report")

Apart from that, there is nothing more I can do.

Sorry.

Edited May 29, 2007 by marcnet

[gwel]

Sorry, but a debug version would not help. HIMDRenderer uses the DLL's that Sonicstage installs/uses itself to do all the OMA decoding. This is why you get the same result with my program as with Sonicstage.

So if the OMA file is damaged, then neither HIMDRenderer or Sonicstage can repair it.

I understand. Thanks for the precision.

You could try again with HIMDRenderer, let it fail as it did before and then use the "bug report" feature of HIMDRenderer to send me the log file (this is done automatically when you press "Send report")

I just sent you the report with HIMDRenderer. Hope this helps.

Apart from that, there is nothing more I can do.

Sorry.

You still did a lot !!! Don't be sorry !

Thanks for your work.

[Karmageddon]

Have you tried to open the OMA file with Sound Forge as Sound Forge can open/play/edit these files without issue. as well you can save the OMA file as a WAV file.

Hope this helps.

[raintheory]

Have you tried to open the OMA file with Sound Forge as Sound Forge can open/play/edit these files without issue. as well you can save the OMA file as a WAV file.

Hope this helps.

man! good call!

hope it works!