Zoom H2 Review ( will be updated as time progresses)

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ozpeter]

That's great! What's that site where you can upload a minute of location audio from wherever you like? They'll be getting a lot of material from H2's!

I'd say the image is very satisfactory - quite a sense of people talking first in front, then at the side, then behind.

Only comment from me is that elsewhere it's been said that on high gain, it gets a bit hissy - maybe I'm deaf but I can't hear anything grossly hissy about this recording, though the location is perhaps too noisy to reveal it.

I look forward to hearing your further thoughts in due course.

[Arni]

sounds great, maybe you could run a test with the live-limiter setting and check if gain is attenuated only but not raised again when recording extremely loud music?

that´s what iriver´s "rockbox-firmware" has implemented in it´s "safety-clip"-setting.

thx

Edited August 30, 2007 by Arni

[ZosoIV]

Sounds promising, and it's still cheaper than the RH1 to boot. Does it accept 8GB SDHC cards?

[fanimej]

Sounds promising, and it's still cheaper than the RH1 to boot. Does it accept 8GB SDHC cards?

I think it's up to 4Gb...

So how is the build quality? Does it feel as cheap as the H4 or is it better? Is it easy to understand and control? Even during recording (like adjusting recording volume)?

That soundclip sounds great!

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[bobt]

Just really seen the pictures, size wize how does it compare with the RH1? With external mic's is it easy to stealth record with it??

Looks sharp,

Bob

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ozpeter]

It sounds from various comments I've read that the gain on the preamp for external mics is set low - so to record quiet stuff, you'd need an external mic with a beefy output, so you wouldn't need the gain up high on the H2. Or, as you say, use a mixer or other external mic preamp. The Naiant mics have a pretty high output - when I eventually lay hands on my H2 I'll give them a try (and everything else in the cupboard! - eg Rode Stereo Videomic would be interesting with the H2, and I have one).

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ozpeter]

What I mean is, the bigger the output overall mic output (for any given sound level) the more likely you are to be able to have the mic gain switch and the recording level at lower settings, which one would expect to produce less preamp noise.

Conversely, mics with a low output - regardless of their audio quality - will need additional gain applied at the preamp of the device, and if the preamp is not the most quiet, then the outcome will be greater overall noise.

Elsewhere someone has commented that they are not getting much level from their mics, comparatively, when connected to the H2, so it does seem like the range of gain available, even with the three settings, isn't as great as with a RH-1.

Actually, you could test that fairly easily - maybe plug your AT-822 into the RH-1, turn the gain right up, put the mic in front of an out-of-tune FM radio, and adjust the volume of the radio's hiss till the RH-1 meters just hit full scale. Now without moving the mic, plug it into the H2 and see whether the H2's meters go all the way up with that same sound level at the mic, with the H2 also set to maximum gain. I'm guessing - perhaps wrongly! - that they wouldn't.

Heh, you see I'm just trying to get you to do the kind of test I'll be doing eagerly when mine arrives!

[A440]

I had an AT-822 , and a Sony ECM- 959a both very HIGH Quality mics , Industry Standards , and Audiophile quality

They sound Horrible on the ZOOM .

Well, you may have just talked me out of getting the H2 if the external mic inputs are that bad. I can't be standing at a concert with the H2 in my hand. Have you tried your AT822 with loud music?

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[fanimej]

I'm not really after something to record music with, instead i'm interested in recording speech / voices, like with interviews. Would the Zoom H2 be an alternative for me? Or is it just for music? I saw in the manual that it has a mode for "voice" recording, any thoughts on that? I guess i'm after something that has a mic which records just "straight forward" and not 360 degrees...

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[fanimej]

Would be really great if you cold post a sample when you're just talking into the H2 microphones, perhaps talking with someone else aswell?

I'm an amateur and hasn't got any real experience with voice recording so even though i appreciate your thoughts, perhaps your definition on what's acceptable is really different from mine? I guess i would also record environment sounds, maybe even at converts, so perhaps it's acceptable?

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ozpeter]

Hey, Guitarfxr, thanks for all the info and thoughts.

Part of the reason why there are high expectations - possibly exaggerated ones! - about this and similar devices is their provision of high bit rates/sample depths (24/96 for example) - which leads potential purchasers to suppose that Zoom haven't front-ended a 24 bit recording device with an 8 bit preamp! But of course that's the kind of thing that can happen - the numbers game is all, as well illustrated by the megapixel wars in digital cameras. It's pretty clear that lots of pixels can, in some designs of camera, be an actual disadvantage, but many purchasers simply don't realise that and just go by the numbers.

In the case of the H2, we'd know more if Zoom published proper specs - but as far as I'm aware, they haven't.

Meanwhile there's a speech sample at http://www.cc-chapman.com/2007/08/24/zoom-...recording-test/ - though if the guy had paused for breath a few times so we could hear the background noise (both from the environment and from the device) it would have been more helpful!

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[A440]

BOOM !!!!! Mic setting Low , AGC on etc and then a little editing in Audacity .

Yeah if you want to use EXT mics , I dont think the Zoom is a Good idea,

I remember your taiko drummers. What I meant was, have you tried the AT822 with loud music on the Zoom H2? I'm wondering if a louder signal would overcome the noise.

[Strungup]

<_

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[jessej]

Thank you for the audio samples!

Please record a street musician, some traffic, birds in a park and then a band playing electric (loud) at a club.

Also silence (no humming PCs, fridges etc -> bury it under 10 pillows) would be nice just to get a fingerprint of the noise.

Thanks!

- Jesse -

[fanimej]

Thank you for the audio samples!

Please record a street musician, some traffic, birds in a park and then a band playing electric (loud) at a club.

Also silence (no humming PCs, fridges etc -> bury it under 10 pillows) would be nice just to get a fingerprint of the noise.

Thanks!

- Jesse -

Cheesez, talk about big demands. Don't you think this guy has better things to do than record all those things? Sure i've been asking for some samples to but perhaps you could have narrowed it down a bit? But hey, if you get what you ask for, i wouldn't mind

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[jessej]

Cheesez, talk about big demands.

Lol, yeah! Actually It ment the post to anyone who has gotten their hands on an H2..

- J -

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[fanimej]

How come the H2 unit makes noise? It's not like it has any moving parts, like a MD, right?

[Arni]

How come the H2 unit makes noise? It's not like it has any moving parts, like a MD, right?

guitarfx is talking about the internal preamp noise of the H2 .

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[ozpeter]

Chief problem I hear seems mp3-related, noticable in the bugs' high frequencies.

The 15 minute sample I downloaded from elsewhere sounded pretty good quality-wise - I ran it through the Audition analyser (aggregating the whole 15 mins) and that showed high frequencies extending pretty flat to 16kHz, then a 5dB dip to 19600 where the response inevitably dropped off sharply. Bottom end was well represented in the curve. Noise from domestic appliances, traffic, etc etc was way above that of the H2. That's the trouble - it's actually quite hard to find circumstances where the natural background noise level is quiet enough to be revealing when testing modern equipment.

Until we have concert hall and/or studio recordings and direct and careful comparison tests with HiMD in wave format I think the jury will stay out. Those I can get once it's released over here.

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[soul&folk]

Check out this link. Someone named Skip Hunt has been experimenting with the onboard mics and comparing it to using a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic at various settings

(I believe he explained somewhere that the second test was recorded at a two foot distance, and the others were closer)

check it out

EDIT: Hey! I just noticed that skip hunt just became a member and is reading this thread right now! small world...

Edited September 2, 2007 by soul&folk

[skiphunt]

Check out this link. Someone named Skip Hunt has been experimenting with the onboard mics and comparing it to using a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun mic at various settings

(I believe he explained somewhere that the second test was recorded at a two foot distance, and the others were closer)

check it out

EDIT: Hey! I just noticed that skip hunt just became a member and is reading this thread right now! small world...

Hi, that's me... skiphunt. Man, this guy is really slamming this H2. So far, I've been pretty pleased with it. Nope, I ain't no "studio rat"... but I know decent sound. And yes, I know the difference in sound between a Diva setup running Neumans and a Zoom H2.

What I was looking for was something small, intuitive, easy to get decent sound quickly without much fiddling, without having to carry extra mics, good battery life, convenience of recording to flash for uploading clips from the road when I'm traveling, options of gathering a variety of different types of sounds.. ie. narrow pattern, wide pattern, or surround ambience, in a pinch able to jack in external shotgun mic for video dialogue, etc.

I mostly wanted all of this in a small package I could keep in my camera bag on shoots. If the situation arose that capturing some sound would be useful, I wanted to have what I needed right there in the camera bag with me without taking up much room. Didn't have to be pristine studio quality... but not offensively distorted and weak either.

If the guy who doesn't seem to like this unit knows of something even better.. that meets ALL of the criteria outlined above.... for around the same money.. please.. DO TELL!!!

Oh, and before you make all these assumptions about the H2, you might want to consider recording in 96/24 THEN converting to mp3 in post rather than using the H2s onboard mp3 processing. I think you'll get better results than what you're getting. The only flaws I've noticed so far are when you try to use the H2s onboard processing like "normalize" and re-encode. They work for the most part and in a pinch.. but I'm finding it much better to just get 96/24 and tweak/re-encode in post. I'm guessing the first firmware update will take care of much of this, but in the meantime, no biggy to just gather the raw sound you need and process later.

My quickie tests for voice in a reasonably quiet room (except for the fridge compressor) ;-) are not scientific.. and are not perfect.. (I think my levels were a notch high on one of the 3rd or 4th recordings.. and mic placement wasn't perfect.. but it was late and I figured it would give other's out there looking for the same thing I was.. a good idea what you can get will little knowldege, little effort, little expense, and no extra tweaking in post. For straight out of the H2 (except for down sampling to a 48khz MP3 320kbps file) it's pretty decent and meets my current needs. http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/h2test.html

Edited September 2, 2007 by skiphunt

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[skiphunt]

Hey Skip , welcome to MDCF

Thanks! Pleased to be here. :-)

first off , No I am NOT slamming the H2 , I am making the statement , for an Audio engineers standpoint , that You cannot expect a 200 dollar machine to give you truly Studio Grade sound .

Yes, I read the whole thread and can now see that. Someone sent me an email and I said the same thing, ie. "it's a $200 recording device that conveniently records decent sound in a small package with useful features... it's not going to sound as good as a $10k studio recording... but, definitely decent/usable audio for many applications. ;-) "

The RH1 , is for the most part , the standard by which everyone here ( This IS the Minidisc Community) is going to compare things .

The main question which was here WAY before you came , on everyones mind was : "Is this thing going to be as good as the RH1 , or will it compete with the RH1? "

My review was requested , as I had one on order from about 4 months ago , and the discussion stems from SEVERAL threads that date back 8 months or so .

Does the Zoom, Compare with the Audio quality of the RH1 , .......... NO , ...... is it Usable .........Yes

I am giving a Critical ear review , rather than the , " Hey Go buy this because it is the Newest thing on the market " review

The Rh1 in it lowest setting and the Zoom on it medium settings ( ie HiLP or even in standard MD Mode LP4 , and Zoom on MP3 320 kbs )

I gave up miniDisk a few years ago. I'm a little surprised it's still being used, but I do still see blank media forsale, and I DID hang onto my old Sony miniDisk. ;-) For the criteria I outlined in my post, ie. (MY needs) don't you think the H2 is much better?

the RH1 will sound better . there is the main point . Now is that clarified enough ? I am not slamming the Zoom , I am stating what it is .

Yes, again.. I was hasty in my "retort" because you do outline many of the benifits of the H2 and that it's a contender for it's intended market. Just not for pristine, portable, studio quality field recording. Yet, for MY needs... I have not found a better choice to date and am very pleased with the H2 thus far.

One thing you should REALLY do is compare your mp3 320kbps recording from the H2 to a 96/24bit WAV file. I think the H2 is lacking in the processing department. And doing the mp3 compression on the fly might be taxing it a bit too much.. at least until the first firmware update. My mp3s generated from the 96/24bit WAV files in Audacity sound MUCH better than the same recording letting the H2 do the mp3 320kbps compression on the fly. Just give it a try and then tell me I'm wrong. ;-)

Edited September 2, 2007 by skiphunt

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[skiphunt]

Also... I might not have emphasized it enough.. but I was looking for something that fit all the criteria I noted in my first post AND I needed it in a SMALL package, ie. long battery life, many recording options for various situations, convenient and in a SMALL package. In my camera bag I'm toting 2 dSLRs, lenses, flashes, filters, media AND very basic HDV video gear... small tripods, etc. So I don't have room for convertors, XLR cables, a dozen blank miniDisks, proprietary batteries and charger, etc. The H2 uses the same media as my Nikon dSLRs. Same batteries as my Nikon speedlights, etc.

I also do some motorcycle touring and like to report back with video, images, and I hope decent audio from motorcycle touring like the one I did in Mexico on a Kawasaki KLR650 (now a Suzuki DL650). Like here: http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skipmexmc.html (read from bottom up) or here: http://www.poppinfreshmedia.com/skipmexmc.html

I simply don't have room to carry any more gear. I don't know how much backpacking and motorcycle touring you've done... but space is ALWAYS at a premium. But, I sometimes stumble across audio opportunities I'd love to capture and share with others. For this.. so far... the H2 reigns surpeme.

Thanks! Pleased to be here. :-)

Yes, I read the whole thread and can now see that. Someone sent me an email and I said the same thing, ie. "it's a $200 recording device that conveniently records decent sound in a small package with useful features... it's not going to sound as good as a $10k studio recording... but, definitely decent/usable audio for many applications. ;-) "

I gave up miniDisk a few years ago. I'm a little surprised it's still being used, but I do still see blank media forsale, and I DID hang onto my old Sony miniDisk. ;-) For the criteria I outlined in my post, ie. (MY needs) don't you think the H2 is much better?

Yes, again.. I was hasty in my "retort" because you do outline many of the benifits of the H2 and that it's a contender for it's intended market. Just not for pristine, portable, studio quality field recording. Yet, for MY needs... I have not found a better choice to date and am very pleased with the H2 thus far.

One thing you should REALLY do is compare your mp3 320kbps recording from the H2 to a 96/24bit WAV file. I think the H2 is lacking in the processing department. And doing the mp3 compression on the fly might be taxing it a bit too much.. at least until the first firmware update. My mp3s generated from the 96/24bit WAV files in Audacity sound MUCH better than the same recording letting the H2 do the mp3 320kbps compression on the fly. Just give it a try and then tell me I'm wrong. ;-)

Haven't played with the limiter yet because I thought it'd be all over the place. You sound like you know what you're talking about so I'm going to go play with it some.

No need to get another card. You can get a solid 15mins with the 512MB card at 96/24.

I've already used the Sennheiser ME66 with the Sony MD. I have to use a line-matching transformer to get decent results. BUT, I have to carry the transformer, Sennheiser, XLR cabling, batteries, and miniDisks. With the H2, I don't need to carry any more batteries than I already carry. Don't need a stack of miniDisks since I'm already shooting SD cards in my dSLR gear... don't need to carry another mic since the onboard mics are passable. Don't need to carry additional mounting devices since the H2 is a standard tripod mount and I carry a couple gorillapods and ultrapods for photo gear. I just pull a standard table pod or gorillapod and I'm all set for hands-free H2 recording. The only additional space I need to take up is not much more than a cell phone. In return, I get up to 96/24 recording, several recording patterns built-in to the H2, easy/intuitive record settins... and certainly usable audio quality. I don't get ALL of that from the MD angle.

Edited September 2, 2007 by skiphunt

[bobt]

Hi Skip,

been observing the conversation, H2 looks like it fits you, but you do deserve the chance to try an RH1 with a 1 gig MD, may change your mind slightly. Any of the of the Hi-MD's with a mic input will probably do you well, and they are small, media is cheap, and not that big.

Again H2 looks like it has some nice poins to it, but there are alternatives.

Thanks for your insights

Bob

[Strungup]

Edited September 5, 2007 by Guitarfxr