My first live recording - Advice/Criticism wanted for a complete novice

[micktravis]

I go to so many concerts I decided I wanted to try live (stealth) recording. This is my first attempt. Enclosed is about a minute re-encoded in MP3. Please don't pull any punches, and apologies in advance for the fact that I just started looking into all of this a couple of weeks ago.

lcd_selection.mp3

Show - Hollywood Bowl, LCD Soundsystem, Sept 20, 2007.

Seating - Boxes - maybe 50 rows back and slightly right (excellent seats)

Gear - 2 Core-Sound Binaural mics -> battery box (bass rolloff bypassed) -> line-in -> Microtrack (24 bit WAV)

I ran the mic cable up the back of my shirt and into my baseball cap. The mics protruded slightly through two eye holes, one on each side of the cap, enlarged to fit the mics snugly. Each mic was level to the ground, pointing (respectively) 45 degrees left and right of the performers. Clear line of sight.

I decided to go Line-In rather than mic (although I did bring 10db and 20db attenuator cables just in case.) My understanding reading this forum is that the SNR is substantially greater bypassing the pre-amp and using a line level signal.

With the Microtrack's recording level set to maximum I could see decent levels on the (somewhat uninformative) VU meters; I guessed I was peaking at -12 or -6 db.

Have a listen. Is this what I should expect to hear considering the gear I have? My tests at home lead me to believe that much more bass is possible, and cleaner high ends.

I can certainly EQ what I did to make it sound better (I don't know much about the software mentioned on this forum but I would take it into an AVID or something similar) but I'm curious if this represents a pretty mediocre first attempt, and what I can do to improve next time.

Should I have gone mic-in? The volume level at the Hollywood Bowl is never that high, so is this just a case of not enough pressure?

A few quick roundup questions before I sign off...

1. Am I correct in understanding the attenuator cables, and the bass rolloff filter, are only for use through the mic-input, and never line-in?

2. Do attenuators (I have core-sound cables) generally do their thing flat (ie without prejudice to bass or treble in particular)?

3. As a rule, will higher actual volume levels and a mid-range recording level produce better (or different) results than the situation I found myself in, with the levels on max and not quite enough volume?

4. Is there anything wrong with my setup that I should address?

Thanks in advance.

[greenmachine]

The crowd noise indicates that your setup is capable of capturing a much wider range than emitted by the PA. If the sound source doesn't sound good to begin with, don't expect wonders from your equipment. Try recording unamplified instruments to get an idea of what your equipment is capable of.

[micktravis]

The crowd noise indicates that your setup is capable of capturing a much wider range than emitted by the PA. If the sound source doesn't sound good to begin with, don't expect wonders from your equipment. Try recording unamplified instruments to get an idea of what your equipment is capable of.

Thanks. Do you think going mic-in rather than line-in would have helped?

[A440]

Thanks. Do you think going mic-in rather than line-in would have helped?

In a word, no.

I don't know about Microtrack mic preamps--early reports were that they were not as good as minidisc preamps--and you should see if you can find a Microtrack forum, or look at www.taperssection.com , where you should post this exact question. Minidisc has its idiosyncrasies, and I'm sure the Microtrack has some of its own.

If you had gone mic-in with minidisc you would have had major distortion for Murphy and Co. and their big bass.

Battery box is always better than attentuator because by sending extra power to the microphones, the battery box extends their dynamic range and makes them more resistant to distortion. The attentuator actually reduces the power going out to the mics from the mic jack, as well as the signal going in. But with minidisc preamps, it does often lower the incoming signal enough to save the recording from total brickwalling. I have no idea whether it attenuates all frequencies equally--it's really just a cheap workaround.

But you are right that there's not much bass in that recording. The Core Sound Binaurals are touted with flat frequency response from 20-20,000 Hz, and I know LCD has more bottom than that. So I have to ask....are you absolutely 100 percent sure that there was no bass roll-off? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Or is there some filter setting in the Microtrack?

I never say never about bass roll-off, because if you have a very good idea of the room and the band and just how lopsidedly bass-heavy the show is going to be, you might be able to outwit it with bass roll-off. But...I'm just not that strategic.

I think I understand your question about volume vs. recording levels, but basically it's all about what the unit registers. Whether you're recording a cricket or an earthquake, the closer you can get to full saturation--peak volume near the 0--the better the recording. But the more you raise the level, the closer you are playing to the edge, because over 0 you'll get distortion that can't be removed. So peaks just above the middle of the scale are probably sensible unless you are absolutely sure there won't be fluctuations or a big buildup at the end.

Really, see if you can find some Microtrack owners. They must have some tricks and experiences of their own.

[micktravis]

In a word, no.

Thanks. I really think that the Hollywood Bowl setup (and regulations) ensure that concerts are much quieter there than other venues. We could talk comfortably, only raising our voices slightly, and be heard over LCD. Before I start seriously digging I need to tape a show that's good and loud, one where my input levels aren't all the way up. I hope (and I'm willing to bet) that this is the main issue.

[A440]

If it's really that quiet then your problem may just be signal-to-noise ratio. You barely had the sound pressure you needed for Line-in with the battery box, which only boosts the signal a tiny bit.

Unfortunately, even relatively quiet bass can overload the mic input. I just recorded a church organ via mic-in, well below peak level, and every time bass notes were used, it distorted. Possibly going through the attenuator would have worked for you, but it's a tricky situation either way.

What was LCD Soundsystem doing in a place where they couldn't make the floor shake?