Samantha D. Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 attach to SAVED FILE I previously typed, moments earlier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I've been using MD to record live since 1997. I was surprised to see this posted recently where this group explains exactly how they record with MD. http://www.muzicforums.com/promote-your-bands-myspace/26555-riley-williams-electric-voodoo.html I also use a SHARP portable and Sony home MD deck and run it through an EQ into the great SONY RCD-W500C. Here are a few tips and thoughts: You gotta use ONLY MAXELL gold color Music Digital Audio 80min 700mb CDRs with this deck. You can clone on any cheap cd discs using your computer. IMPORTANT: you've gotta manually punch the track breaks with Remote (RM-R52) is RCD-W500C's remote , SO SET REMOTE TO DECK B (flip switch) AND ALWAYS USE SBM (leave it switched ON always, no effect on playback). STOP APPROX 5 secs before MAXING OUT total time on cdr, cdr capacity is 79:57 so stop around 79:52 or IF YOU DON'T AND MAX OUT & THEN YOU TITLE DISC + SONGS, Programs like Sonic, Roxio, Easy Creator, etc WON'T bE able to Clone the Cd. It will read it as a 703mb OVERBURN. Just thought you'd like to know, I learned that the hard way back in 2005 when I first got the RCD-W500C. You can clone the CD, just more difficult and not with those programs! NOTHING MATCHES THE SONY RCD-W500C analog/digital conversion, No soundcard, no other cdr standalone deck. I had a Pioneer PDR-509 I bought in 2000 that lasted until 2005 when replaced with Sony RCD-W500C. Sony has better sound reproduction than any, better low end, more lifelike flat response. Pioneer and those earlier machines made slightly trebly recordings without as much low end. Anyway agree on SHARP portables being superior to SONY portables for adj on fly recording and better MIC IN. Sharps such as mt-16, mt-161 mt-20 sr-50 sr-60 sr-75 mt-821 are great and cheap on ebay. Sony's almost never break, but if you are gonna go SONY, step up to hi-md Sony. Sharp portables are better for recording with MD. Sharp 702 model is notorious for breaking, TOC error but if it functions properly it records as well as all of them, none are any better at recording quality. GET A QUALITY MIC, ebaymicrosound , Sony, sound pro, core, Audio Technica, etc. Microsound panas Y uni is a good one, cheap too at approx $20 new, guy that makes them, Paul is in Penn. USA. Sony DS-p70 is $4 or so online and isn't that bad, though SONY's other ones are better. Good luck capturing those great live recordings so you can enjoy them for years to come. --Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom in RI Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 If you ever see one cheap you might consider an HHB Burnit which has the primary advantage of accepting both music and data cdr's. I've had the HHB Burnit 830 for quite awhile and have been very happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Hopefully I won't bore you all with more basic info that every long time MD user already knows, but on the small chance some folks looking at MD as "Low Budget" sings The Kinks tune (Ray D + Kinks are one of the most underrated English groups of all time, definitely HALL OF FAMERS!) Sorry about the nut rant there. You can also build your own mic but seriously its only gonna be as good as the elements and their type and quality. Built some using #270-090 RadSHk omni elements, and it was disapointing, NO LOW ENd, faraway sound, no depth to drum sound. Actually hubby, Eli , soldered them up. Had better attempt scavenging a pair from an '80's ghetto blaster. I'm not a sound pro but based on my ears, thats my experience. Unidirectional gives you best when mic placement is dictated by circumstance in my opinion. Can't hurt to try building some, but you might spend more than you can buy a decent one. Uni's will give proximity effect if too close to bass player's cabinet. I'm not an expert so I've said too much and other topics cover it better. Here is the LINK FOR BUILDING YOUR OWN STEREO MIC for plug in power of any Sharp/Sony portable MD http://www.atempo.dk/mic/ Get a 20ft extension cord so you can elevate the mics Rad Shk part#42-2562 is great. J&R Music World sells MD's . Lastly never forget fresh batteries, plenty of blank(erased) MD's and A PENLIGHT. Don't forget you can capture youtube audio with your MD , just use a 1/8"male stereo to 1/8" male stereo cable from Laptop headphone jack TO md machine Line In. Great way to get those great audio from pro shot concert footage, tv, from all those Rolling Stones tours, Billy Preston live, Ike & Tina, Ten Years After, Tom Jones, Who, whomever you like its there. EQ it /Trnsfr to cd like a live recording. Never erase any of your MD's until you've transferred them or you are certain you don't want the recordings. Never ever try to edit or record any MD in any MD machine that is broken or known to have problems. IT CAN RUIN YOUR DISCS. Toss any MD's that are known to have issues, you don't wanna lose a great performance because you guessed it might work properly this time. If you think using MD recording equipment is too difficult or requires too much effort, than YOU REALLY SHOULD USE A MORE MODERN SOLUTION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted February 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 This is a oldie but goodie ON HOW TO RECORD A LIVE CONCERT. http://www.beastiemania.com/qa/liverec.php Go to ebay click on STORES, search by store name MICROSOUND.INC their Stereo Y mic is excellent. Additionally RadShk part#42-2562 20ft ext cord is useful if you are using a makeshift stand to record your own group and elevate the mics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted March 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Another golden oldie with great info on building ya microphones http://webpages.charter.net/tidmarsh/binmic/ Also the ancient Realistic #33-1065 Stereo Mic was a long time favorite of DAT and proWalkman recorders for years and it is easily found on ebay at very very low cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted March 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Hi, Lastly there might be those of you wondering where in the world can I find out what features the models I see on ebay have? Or where can I get the owners manual Instruction book--Well nearly all of them are in one place on pdf files where you can view them, check out http://www.minidisc.org/part_Manuals.html takes you directly there, JUST CLICK on The MODEL you wanna see. An example, the SHARP MD-MT821 is http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sharp/sharp_mdmt821_user_manual.pdf Here is another Live REC tip thats old http://www.musicgearreview.com/features/live-recording-1.htm Disregard all the pricing info as that was then, this stuff is on ebay now for next to nothing- around $10. Never spend much on old MD equipment, as there are better newer alternatives for the money, HOWEVER if you're LOW BUDGET and you don't mind going to the trouble of manually and in real time transferring/EQ'ing to CDR then MD will work for you. Remember low budget, don't spend much on MD stuff!!! A few links that might also be useful on ancient SHARPS http://www.japan-direct.com/mt821.htm http://www.streettech.com/archives_gadget/miniDiscMS702.html http://www.amazon.com/review/R3G1KHQSFYEIR Best of luck capturing those your great live performances. - Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md user Posted March 3, 2010 Report Share Posted March 3, 2010 Hi, Lastly ... Best of luck capturing those your great live performances. - Samantha THANKS for all the info. Very useful. I'm using WM-61As via Linkwitz mod (available on web), with any of my portables at Live concerts - with surprisingly good results. (Yes, I know that this is an amateur effort compared to HHB professional equipment.) Whatever, listening to my recordings after, really does remind me of the concert - which is what it's all about, for me. Regards, mdmad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted March 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Recently, I've been told that the "cheap" DS70p mics that are being sold for about $4 to $5 are FAKE/COUNTERFEIT/KNOCKOFFS and ARE NOT GENUINE SONY. I didn't know that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfDuIFk5A8w Utube vid done by someone trying to explain the differences between FAKE & LEGITIMATE ones. Quality mics definitely make a difference in the outcome of your recording projects. The following links may also be useful for evaluating potential microphones for your MD machines. http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=20469 http://www.nady.com/manuals/microphones/cm4s.pdf http://www.jr.com/audio-technica/pe/AT_PRO24CM/ Generally, the high quality stereo mics that are marketed specifically for modern digital camcorders are good choices in most cases for MD recorders. Obviously, if you are booting concerts, you probably need something that isn't as noticeable, but if you are capturing your own band's live show, this type of stereo mic is great quality. Don't overlook the fact that many newer camcorders, record stereo audio in great quality with their built in mics or ext mic. You certainly can capture audio this way and just transfer the stereo audio track to CD, etc. - Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted March 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Hi again and regarding camcorder type mics, Sony ECM-MSD1 may be useful http://www.microphonereviews.com/product-reviews/camcorder-microphones/sony-ecmmsd1.html http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/278280-REG/Sony_ECMMSD1_ECM_MSD1_Stereo_Gun_Zoom.html Here you can view the user manual, scroll to number 45 after linking http://www.usersmanualguide.com/sony/digital_imaging_accessories number 38 there is ECM-DS70p number 44 there is ECM-MS908C The 907 is said to be the virtual twin of the 908, only including a stand where the 908 is for camera mount http://www.microphonereviews.com/product-reviews/camcorder-microphones/sony-ecmms907.html More on AT Pro 24 http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/Audio-Technica/PRO-24 If you wanna try building a homemade mic and try it out, here are a few sources for cheap condensor elements, no idea, how well it might work in actual recording quality, but its cheap... http://www.surplussales.com/Microphones-Audio/MicroAudio-4.html http://www.jlielectronics.com/spec.htm http://www.jlielectronics.com/prod3.htm http://www.jlielectronics.com/ecm.htm This Utub DS-70p link should give you plenty of MD related/Microphone-Rec related Utub links http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdhcUwSGWdI&feature=related Hopefully this info is useful in furthering the discussion on possible Mics and to help you get decent live recordings. - Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md user Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Hi again and regarding camcorder type mics, ... number 38 there is ECM-DS70p n .... - Samantha Yes, I bought two of these from ebay - one a fake, the other 'real'. They are very cheap, good for interviews, but not up to the mark for concerts, when compared to Linkwitz wm-61a's. The latter, with some DIY, for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted March 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2010 Hi again. A few more comments on this subject. In the never ending quest to capture your own band's great live performances, do not forget the most important thing: you want all those great shows to be heard , right? Stick them on your band's website for free downloads and such, put them on your myspace site, and place the quality video clips out there too if you wish + facebook and related sites. Here is one site you might wish to consider if your entire group is in agreement http://www.archive.org/details/etree Obviously you can't stick booted material of major acts that aren't allowing taping of shows. It might be a good place to let the world hear your group's stuff if you wish to let it out. Get those machines running and capturing your great shows. You need not spend a fortune to get quality recordings! Enlist your fans and spouses and girlfriends of bandmembers to capture the recordings and monitor the equipment/point the camcorder etc. Have fun. Some more on the topic of stereo mics for your MD machine: http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-145037-ME-51S-Stereo-Microphone/dp/B000BTAH62 http://www.fullcompass.com/product/314915.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_HKN00DGhs http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/digests/V6.100/D160 http://support.nikontech.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16742/~/external-stereo-microphones-for-nikon-dslr's Here is a more modern solution , the SONY PCM-D50 http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/resource.latest.bbsccms-assets-cat-audio-latest-pcmd50.shtml Olympus LS-11 http://www.startstop.com/ls11.asp Anyway, if you aren't capturing your stuff, YOU ARE MISSING OUT! A good recording is a good recording, whether, you lugged your 43 pound Akai X-200D open reel deck from 1971 and plugged in a quality electret Stereo Condenser microphone into it (or just two separate single electret Condenser mics into the two 1/4" mic jacks). If anyone is curious, those ol X-200D and other Akai's were great recorders and still are only if you have a professionally refurbished/calibrated machine and an fresh supply of new top quality Zonal reel tape from the UK (only people still producing quality tape and it isn't cheap----if you are just using ancient used tape and aged/non refurbished open reel, you'll most likely have problems with recordings and may just get garbage when you should have captured a great show. Leave the vintage stuff alone, unless you are willing to have everything done right to ensure quality operation and function as when it was new, 35-40 year old stuff, thats been sittin idle, is gonna have issues, no matter what. Well, if you do have something that is old and functions well, use it... Use what you've got and make the best of it. Capture your great performances, whether on MD, hi-md, digital recorders, open-reel, cassette deck, DAT, camcorder, or even iPod/iPhone with a stereo mic like Belkin/MikeyBlue. Happy Recording! - Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarrabri Posted April 5, 2010 Report Share Posted April 5, 2010 Hi Samantha D thanks for all the facts, never done any live recordings ,but done a bit at home on my fostex DMT8 loved every min on it ,now i have just discovered minidisc players , and i cant believe the beautiful sound they create,not done any recording yet but i will give it a go latter ,loved all the facts you provided best wishes Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 More related links: Sharp vs Sony md machines http://members.tripod.com/civil_disobedient/r50vs701.html http://www.mail-archive.com/md-l@amulation.com/msg03393.html On Building DIY cheap elec condenser mics http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmLxNhXIV6A https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/type/www/audio-reports/PanasonicWM-61A_OtherBinauralRigs/WM61A_Webpage_Caps_Mounts.html http://www.christianmusicweb.com/microphones/mic_project.html http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Stereo-Condenser-Microphone-with-Adjustable-To/ http://www.hobbyprojects.com/M/Microphone_circuits.html http://www.taperssection.com/ http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/06/technology/got-a-legal-concert-recording-pass-it-on.html?pagewanted=1 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090206110150AAvy812 http://jdfrey.wordpress.com/2007/10/22/equipment-to-record-a-loud-concert/ http://www.banzaimusic.com/Microphone-Parts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Hi, maybe this is a bit of info overload, but I say its better to know slightly more, than less. DIY electret condenser mic, good explanation too http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?p=146677 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHjmCQBDhCo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6WFhRSbp4M&feature=related http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.audio.pro/2008-05/msg01207.html http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6450_7-5020860-1.html Here is some really technical stuff for all of you Math Wizards: http://www.st.com/stonline/books/pdf/docs/8698.pdf http://www.rane.com/note148.html Lastly there is more at Taper Talk at : http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=index&gid=21 Those ABB fans that "tape" are most recognized as the finest live recorders on the planet today. Those Peachheads know a thing or two and really get into it. http://emptystapes.blogspot.com/2010/02/audiophile-live-concert-taping.html Remember what I suggested in my first post from earlier (above): THE SONY RCD-W500C standalone cd recorder is YOUR BEST FRIEND WHEN TRANSFERRING old MD to CD. ALWAYS USE SBM (super bit mapping). Pay close attention to the details mentioned. ONLY USE gold coloured Maxell digital audio Music 700mb 80min Cdrs with the SONY RCD-W500C. Happy Recording! - Samantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsla Posted April 26, 2010 Report Share Posted April 26, 2010 Hi Samantha, Lots of good info. here. I must, however, comment on the microphone issue. Not one of those Sony mikes is worth a dime in my opinion and experience. And sorry but, same for the self built mikes. I recently got a Sony MS957 sent to me along with a Hi-MD minidisc I bought on Craigslist. That mike lists for about $300 on Sony's site I believe. I was appalled at the low quality of the recording it produced. It sounded exactly like the $70 907 I started out with several years ago. I record live almost every day in my practice studio, either my individual practice or group sessions I have several times a week. I also record at clubs and concerts, (and occasionally on a subway platform if I run across something really good). All my recording is done with minidisc. As for the microphone...the Audio Technica AT822 Stereo Condenser or it's replacement is the only way to go absent pro level studio or field recording equipment. It is an awesome microphone...get your hands on one, do an A-B comparison with anything else your using and you will never go back. When I got my AT822, based on a couple of knowledgeable recommendations, I was blown away by the quality of the recording. Everyone, including musicians, who hear one of the recordings I make with this microphone is immensely impressed. Funny thing though, they always ask what I recorded on (the medium) instead of what I recorded with (the microphone) thinking I suppose that the recording device is what produces the great sound. But, it's the microphone that is the first link in a live recording. The microphone is where the electrical frequency signal originates. I'd rather record to a cassette tape machine with a great mike than to a digital recorder with a cheap mike. I recently purchased a second 822 as a backup so I decided to use both in my studio. I run them through a mixer using four channels. The left and right output from each mike goes to its own mixer channel. That set up allows me to have complete control over the stereo balance via the pan controls on the mixer channels. I don't apply any EQ except to trim down the low end very slightly on the mike I have positioned directly over the center of my drum kit. That helps the sound of the cymbals by eliminating some extraneous low frequency harmonics produced by cymbals that aren't part of the musical frequencies that define a cymbal's sound. The other mike is set further away from the kit to add in some of the ambient room sound of the drums. Or if I have a group session going, the second mike is for the other instruments. All the above...just my personal opinion, Cheers, -ja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsla Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 That MS957 you got with that MD device off Craiglist must have had an issue; the AT822 sure is better, but saying that the MS957 sounds like the MS907 is a bit much, as I did compare them, my girlfriend having acquired the MS907 for her travels; even Guitarfxr, who compared the MS957 to the AT822, said it wasn't that bad. The MS907 though is very poor, that I do agree with. Well, just to make sure I wasn't overly critical of the 957 after my post above, I took the microphone to my studio Sunday night to make a comparison. I made sure the battery in both microphones was fresh. Then I first placed the MS957 in the same position on the mike stand as my AT822 which suspends the mike about 5 feet off the ground and directly above the center of my drum kit pointing straight down. I set the 957 in 90 degree mode and recorded about a minute or two going directly into the microphone input of an RH1 in MD SP mode, w/ manual record levels. Then I did exactly the same with the Audio Technica. Just hearing the difference in my recorded voice at the beginning of each track describing the microphone in use is enough to convince me that the Sony mike is profoundly inferior. Unless, as you suggest, there is some issue with this particular mike. Possibly a knock-off or the elements were replaced? Everything else I received in the purchase was of high quality and in near pristine condition. It was an MZ-NH900 and all accessories. What I hear in the Sony mike is a thin, tinny sound, very one dimensional and no stereo separation that I can detect. The AT mike produces a full round sound with lots of depth and excellent stereo separation. The Sony mike did not produce anything close to a realistic sound. The AT mike, especially with the roll-off engaged, produced a recording very close to the actual sound of my drum kit in that room. I've uploaded the three files (tracks) into a "Public Folder" in a program I use called DropBox. This creates an internet link to those files that I can send to anyone or paste. The three tracks are the Sony ECM-MS957, the AudioTechnica AT822 in flat setting and again in it's low frequency roll-off setting. The recordings are exactly what went onto the minidisc. Absolutely no post recording effects were applied except conversion to WAV format by Sonic Stage. Posted here are the links: Sony MS957 AT822 in flat setting AT822 in roll-off setting Give a listen yourself and tell me what you think. (Please don't criticize my drumming, I was just trying to get something on disc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha D. Posted April 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Great work. Now that the AT 822 has been discontinued (nos is still avail?), is the AT 8022 equal or ...? as it replaced the 822. Anyone have any experience or tech details. The physical size and the cost of the AT 822 & successor WILL BE an issue for those who "Tape" under cover of darkness from the audience seats. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe there are at least several smaller alternatives that are Up To The task! Recording from middle of an arena, etc presents its own set of challenges. I've seen alot of DIY stereo mic set ups and heard alot of great recordings. To quote Berry Gordy, "Its whats in the groove that counts!". Whether those recordings were EQ'd or whatever, who cares, a great recording is still a great recording in my opinion. Don't say that its impossible with Low-Buck Equipment, it just is much more difficult sometimes, as different components match up better to different equipment... You really never know until you try, but to say that all those fine producers of "stealth mics" don't know what they're doing or that their equipment is inferior to an AT 822 is a crock..., as there are some really good ones out there...recordings prove this. There are more ways than one. I'm certainly not saying the AT822 isn't great because it certainly is, I believe there are likely suitable alternatives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsla Posted April 27, 2010 Report Share Posted April 27, 2010 Great work. Now that the AT 822 has been discontinued (nos is still avail?), is the AT 8022 equal or ...? as it replaced the 822. Anyone have any experience or tech details. The physical size and the cost of the AT 822 & successor WILL BE an issue for those who "Tape" under cover of darkness from the audience seats. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe there are at least several smaller alternatives that are Up To The task! Recording from middle of an arena, etc presents its own set of challenges. I've seen alot of DIY stereo mic set ups and heard alot of great recordings. To quote Berry Gordy, "Its whats in the groove that counts!". Whether those recordings were EQ'd or whatever, who cares, a great recording is still a great recording in my opinion. Don't say that its impossible with Low-Buck Equipment, it just is much more difficult sometimes, as different components match up better to different equipment... You really never know until you try, but to say that all those fine producers of "stealth mics" don't know what they're doing or that their equipment is inferior to an AT 822 is a crock..., as there are some really good ones out there...recordings prove this. There are more ways than one. I'm certainly not saying the AT822 isn't great because it certainly is, I believe there are likely suitable alternatives... Thanks for the compliment Samantha. Glad those links worked, I've not done that before. Just to clarify, I wasn't even thinking about stealth recording in my analysis or discussion. Although the AT822, while a bit long, is in fact very thin and light enough to put in an inside jacket pocket. I've done that on a few occasions where the music venue's policy was to not allow recording, photography, thanking notes, having fun, etc... However, generally when I record a group in a more relaxed club, I approach the musicians, some of whom I may know, and ask permission to record. I've never been turned down. Usually they just want a copy. As for the MS957, it would be totally unsuited for stealth because it is massive and heavy. It's made to look like an impressive studio mike, it just doesn't follow through on performance. I've been told that the AT8022 is as good if not slightly better than the 822. A bit more expensive though. The 822 can still be found with a simple Google Shopping search. The best price had been in the $230 to $249.95 range. I'm seeing them in some retail stores lately, like Sam Ash, for $319. One nice thing about the 822 is that it comes with two types of mike cords. Both attach to the mike by three prong XLR wired for stereo. One terminates in a mini stereo plug and the other has two lines, (left and right channel) that each terminate in a quarter inch mono plug. I use that one to run the mike(s) through a mixer. I don't know that the 8022 comes with those alternatives and it may be a five pin XLR at the mike. One last comment on your observations above. I did have, many years ago, what was then considered a "portable" cassette tape recorder. It was a SUPERSCOPE. All the budding musicians had one because it had a pretty good speed control knob for changing keys, albeit at a lower pitch. The thing was built like a tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.