semifamous Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Alright.... I'm going to a concert festival this summer, and I want to make some recordings of some of the bands while I'm there. It's a 3 day/4 night festival.. What I want is an easy way to record the bands I want to hear, with the ability to easily transfer those to a friend's borrowed laptop overnight so that I can re-use the discs the next day. I want something where I can easily copy the files over to his computer, then when we get back home, copy those files over the network to my computer so that they can be burned to a CD. From the research I've done, it sounds like I'm going to have to jump through hoops to do this. It doesn't sound like it's going to be as easy as I hoped it would... I was hoping it would just be a matter drag and drop the .wav file from the mini-disc to the computer, but that seems like it's going to be impossible. Is it? Will I have to instead buy a whole stack of minidiscs and wait until I get home to transfer the stuff off? What is the easiest way to do what I want to do? Which recorder should I get? I'm completely lost here. The whole situation isn't what I thought it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikehend Posted May 12, 2003 Report Share Posted May 12, 2003 You were correct, there is no shortcut here. The only MD recorders that have digital outputs are the decks, not the portables. Even they have no high speed output, so the copy is realtime. That will take a lot of time. It would be cheaper to buy 20 MDs or so (I have purchased packages of ten 80-Min MDs for under $16.00 at BestBuy) and do your recording while there. Worry about transfer to CD later so you can get some sleep and enjoy the concert while you are there. I recommend the MZ-N707 from Sony. I also own an MZ-R700 and an MZ-R70. Bring extra batteries. The mics I use are excellent (Radio Shack omni-directional Stereo pair--$29.99) but they are hard to find now due to having been discontinued. The above units do not do well if the sound is very loud because none of these recorders have a sensitivity switch for the mic input. If you can find one that does (normal, -15db) you will get better recordings if the environment is going to be very loud because the mic pres can be set to a lower sensitivity. I do quite a bit of classical recording and my setup is excellent for this. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted May 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Alright... I did some looking around for the MZ-N707 you recommended, and found a few places to get one, but it's kinda hard to find since it's discontinued. The problem is that you mentioned something about them not doing well in loud environments.... I think I need to find one that *will* allow me to record in loud environments because I expect the concerts to be pretty loud. I did some looking around, and I don't see any that specifically say anything about setting the recording level. On another forum (linked from here) someone said something about their Sharp recorder allowing them to change the recording level and even do it on the fly if necessary. Would this one work: http://bluetin.com/audiomd/re/sh/mt880.htm I don't see if it has the ability to set recording levels, but I don't see that it doesn't either.... I don't know where it would say something like that at... As a side note, I'm glad that I started my quest relatively early... On most of the other forums I go to, a topic this old would have been lost forever. Hopefully I can get enough help to get the right equipment picked out in time to test it at a few concerts before the festival that I'm going to the last week of July... Once I find the right recorder, I'm sure finding the right mic will be easier (won't it??) but I want to make sure that I don't waste any money. I'm on a little bit of a budget, but at the same time, if I'm spending that much money, I want to get my money's worth... If anyone else has advice on which recorder to get, let me know! I really appreciate it! =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 While I don't have a lot of experience with a wide range of portable recorders, I can very enthusiastically second that recommendation for a Sony MZ-N707. I did a bit of research before buying mine last year, and I am very happy with the results. The Sony is not designed for setting recording levels "on the fly" in that you must first pause the recording to get to the manual recording levels. However, I don't think this is really a necessary feature for you for a pair of reasons. First off, the automatic recording level feature on the MZ-N707 works really well. I routinely record rehearsals in front of a 21-piece big band (in a disastrously lively room) and get very good quality recordings. Second, I don't know how you are going to enjoy a concert when you're mucking with recording levels the whole time. Assuming you're in the audience, there will be a lot of ambient noise, as well as varying levels in the different tunes played. I think you will be more unhappy after the fact if you have problems transferring a recording with widely varying levels on the original. I use a Sony ECM-737 stereo (powered) microphone, which I bought some time ago at J&R Music World (http://www.jandr.com). I don't know if it's still available, but it's a killer microphone for my purposes (mostly live recording). I think I paid about $130 - $140 for it in around 1996, so it's not cheap. Check J&R and see what they have available. Finally, forget about your dream of just whipping those tunes onto a CD. It's a complicated process at best, requiring either a bunch of computer equipment (analog to digital converters, software, etc) or dedicated hardware (pro minidisc *deck* featuring digital outputs + CD recorder with digital ins). I wouldn't be too disappointed, though. With the right equipment, you will have a nice collection of minidiscs with great concert recordings on them. If you get to transfer them to CD sometime in the future, well, so much the better. I hope you find this useful. I bought my N-707 as an indexing-friendly alternative to the cassette tape setup I'd been using, and I am really impressed with both the technology and the sound. Good luck! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 14, 2003 Report Share Posted May 14, 2003 semifamous - Don't be shy to ask if you can directly record from the soundboard. Alot of people are doing this now and alot of music groups are cool with people doing it. Grab a RCA (that is the cable, right?) cable and your set. Recording from the audience is cool, but probably 95% of the bootlegs you've listened to come from the soundboard. Imagine what those bootlegs would sound like if they didn't. Plus, eadg145 raises another good point; ambient noise will kill your recordings. I promise. k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 My advice is to buy a second hand Sharp, any unit with mic in and MDLP like MT-190, MT-200, MT-88, MT-99, MT-888, MT-899 will do the work. As noted Sharp have on the fly record level adjust and also more important a mic sensitive setting, high and low. If you record in loud areas with a Sony (not using a phantom feeder/battery box) you will suffer from distortions, with a Sharp set it mic low and that is not a seriouse issiue. Even if you want to record in standard play a MDLP model are more usefull later on in your life with it. I record in LP2 when a mic is used, SP when from a source like a soundboard. Check your second hand sites, price around $90 for a MT-99 and up to $160 for a MT-888. Don't pay much more than that, buy a new one instead. But do get a Sharp, not any Sony. As a microphone you may spend just as much as on a MD. Sony ECM-DS70P are a nice one, costs around $70. That model are avalible in two variants, one with a cord and one as direct plug in. I would go for the cord one, easier to keep stelthy and avoid getting engine sound on your recordings. Note that Sharp model names are different in Europe to US. Check out http://www.minidisc.org/part_Recorders_Sharp.html to see what's it called in your country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skagen Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 I would say "ditto" to Sudden's recommendations of getting a used Sharp unit. However you mention upload to a computer. The easiest way of doing that is to get a Xitel gizmo that will take your analog output from your Minidisc recorder into a USB port and record it directly on your computer hard drive. There more info on that thing at www.minidisc.org, in the "Accessories browser" section. You will not be able to do it digitally - minidisc doesn't allow that - excpet via an expensive home deck. But I think that's fine - you make a good recording with a good mike, you'll have good music, whether or not its digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted June 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 OK. I just got the MT770/888 now. Next thing is to find a mic. I'll probably hit RadShack when I get my hands on the recorder and see what I can find there... (...probably not much.) $70 for a mic seems like a good price, but am I going to be sacrificing any audio quality when I record? I keep hearing people say that I should spend more on the mic than I do on the racorder... I realize that price does not always equal quality, but is that Sony mic going to be the one that I want for what I'm doing? IF it is, that's going to be *awesome* because I wanted to spend less than $300 anyway, and I got the MT770 for just $135. Should I spend the extra leftover money on a mic "just because I can afford it" or what? Do I want a "powered" (?) mic like eadg145 suggests? Or is there something even better? I know that I want one with a cord so that I don't have the sound of the recorder recording itself, but I'm not sure which one I want. I want to get it by the end of next week so that I can take it to Phoenix and record some of my friend's bands in concert to test it and see what works and what doesn't before I take it to this festival at the end of July. I want to be able to test it a few times before the big weekend.... =) Thanks to everyone for your help so far! I really appreciate it! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 That's tough to say. Honestly I think for live concerts, you don't need the highest quality mic. That's because unless you're in a classical-music concert hall (or maybe a high-end jazz club) acoustics are pretty sloppy anyway, and a high end mic can be a bit of overkill. That doesn't mean Sony's automatic recording level is OK - getting a Sharp was the right move for sure. The mic to use depends how you want to record. Personally when I record concerts I use a simple, stereo clip mic, because it's easy and I don't have to think about it after I press record. It sounds very good, cost $20, but is essentially mono. It's better to use a stereo mic with two separate mics for the different channels, and separate these channels by at least 6". Also, being able to set up the mic properly is more important than mic quality, so don't overlook the importance of design and clips. I've never used an omnidirectional mic for recording concerts. I'm sure that gets the best results when used properly, but I don't want to spend the whole concert point a mic at the band! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Yes I think you will be happy with that Sony mic. Natuarly you can find a better one but what I have found is that quality vs price is a square ratio, a two time better mic cost four times as much and so on. Also keep in mind that you may loose your stuff, the security guards can confiscate it. They usualy take your discs and batteries, sometimes also the mic but never heard of anyone loosing the MD. You got a nice MD, only flaw that one have is that you must see both display on remote and unit to set rec level. Remote have a peak scale and on unit is only a numeric. Between step 20 and 21 is the low/high mic switch. With a Sharp you don't need a powerd mic. If you can't find that Sony mic with cord you can get an inexpensive male/female extension cord to use with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 I'm also in the mkt for an MD recording setup. You folks obviously have the knowledge I need to help in my decision. Sudden, You mention the Sony ECM-DS70P. I check out its frequency response: 100-15,000Hz Does this mean it won't pickup lower frequencies like upright bass which can go as low as 60hz. Or, maybe anything below 100Hz isn't a big loss? Anyone's opinion would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecool Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 the n707 should never have been discontinued. Its the best model averaging price and features. I know tons of people who own them, why sony, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted June 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 I got a great deal, I think... $50 for a $70 mic? http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_co...ode=sonecmds70p Anyways, thanks for all your help in here! =) I'll head down to Phoenix in a couple of weekends to test it out. I've just gotta wait for my friends to actually play a show down there on a weekend. If I run into any problems with actually *doing* the recording and stuff, I'll be back in a new thread for more advice, but I think once I get it, it's just a matter of playing with it a lot to see what works. =) Again, thanks to everyone for your advice and recommendations. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Hello. I posted above, saying "omnidirectional" mics are no good, because who wants to point the mic for the whole concert? Obviously what I meant was "unidirectional" - I should look things over for typos before posting! For most concerts, you almost have to get an omnidirectional mic. Because - even if the sound isn't quite as good, it means you don't have to aim the mic at the stage for the duration of the concert. It's a huge pain. I guess it depends on the situation of the concert though - if you can find a place to rest it (a ledge?) that has an unobstructed view of the stage, that should work fine. However omnidirectional mics are much much easier, and in the absence of people talking to the side of you, will sound about as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semifamous Posted June 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 What I'll probably end up doing is putting the recorder in a little CD Walkman case, with the mic sticking out of the zipper just a little bit, then put that on the ground right in front of the barricade where I usually stand. At the festival I'm going to, there's still going to be a dozen or so rows of VIP seating in front of the general admission (standing) area, so I think it might work out alright(ish, not too close, not too far, I hope), but I won't know until I try it. Should be pretty easy to get away with, as long as I can get the group that I'm with not to *kick* the barricade. =) I think I can get the mic far enough away though that it shouldn't matter *too* much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 That's right Pocketbass, you can hardly hear the loss frequency with that Sony mic. As noted a better (more expensive) mic will deliver better sound but then you may wanna record on a non compressed format like DAT to make the most of it. For MD it's just fine. It's also possible to boost bass when transfering to PC with MD eq. semifamous, it's a nice setup of gear you got now. A Sony ECM-DS70P mic for $50 is what I call a bargin. Experiment with various mic location while you record, best sound is usualy possible when the mic is high up. On a stick would be best but a base ball cap on your head may do the trick. I have however recorded with ok results with the mic clipped on my jeans pocket. Remember to stand still. If you turn, the mic will also turn and sound is dropped. Particular stand still and not move your head if you mount the mic on your head. Don't look down all the time to check recording progress. Best location to stand is usualy just infront of the mix deck. There you get the best overall sound level and most of the times there are no large crowd shouting there. One major drawback when recording a concert is that you who do the recording must sacrifice your concert experience. Stand still, not shout or chear. Not jumping and clapping. If you have taken the time and effort to record, it wouldn't be nice to only hear you singin along. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 A group of my friends and I are hoping to buy a MD player for a friend who wants to make live recordings of his gigs so as to critique himself. I have been doing some research online, and have hit a sea of info, info i can't get my head around! :shock: I see there seems to be a problem with transferring data from the MD to your PC. I have read that you can only do that via analogue - i don't even know what that is? and how time consuming is it? for a 60min recording, would it take the same or more or less time to transfer? at the moment we are looking to buy a Sony MZ-R700. is that model an Net MD type? some of the cheaper Sony MD models are not net MD - does that mean you can upload from your MD player to your PC digitally and via a USB? will the Sony MZ-R700 do the job i need it to do? and to transfer from MD to PC do you have to be a computer genius to do it? i have a friend who suggested that i send him the minidisc when i am done with it and he can transfer it for me - is that possible? ie can you transfer MD's from one play er to another (stupid question possibly LOL) thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 You got it right, only way to transfer music from MD is in real time via line out/phone and to line in on your PC (NetMD can only go from PC to MD and not the other way around). Use a sound editor like www.goldwave.com or Cool Edit (www.syntrillium.com), also a direct mp3 encoder (www.lapsaudio.com) can be useful to record with. Sony MZ-R700 are non NetMD, it don't have microphone sensitivity switch either. So if he want to record with a microphone and not only via line in from a mix deck this model is a no go. Any MDLP + mic in model from Sharp is a better unit to get. Any disc recorded can be played by any other MD unit as long as it have support for MDLP (if the disc was recorded in that mode that is). If it is recorde in SP, any MD can play it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 I use a sony ECM-717 mic in combination with the older sony md recorder MZ-R35 and I get great results out of this combination. I will gladly send an mp3 sample to anyone who is interested. The only negative thing about the recorder is that you can't adjust the record level while recording. After a while of practice you get used to this and you know which level to set in advance. The Mic sensivity switch is great! Take care, Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisisforlife Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 I use a sony ECM-717 mic in combination with the older sony md recorder MZ-R35 and I get great results out of this combination. I will gladly send an mp3 sample to anyone who is interested. The only negative thing about the recorder is that you can't adjust the record level while recording. After a while of practice you get used to this and you know which level to set in advance. The Mic sensivity switch is great! Take care, Dirk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 13, 2003 Report Share Posted September 13, 2003 It is mentionded that we can buy sharp 888 second hand easily. from wich sites we can buy sharp second hand --rubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted September 14, 2003 Report Share Posted September 14, 2003 Well that depends upon were you live. For US I assume that Ebay are the place to look. Here in Sweden I search on various ad sites. Ex. MT888 sold for 1000 skr (121 USD) on www.blocket.se. That is a fair price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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