Fernando Olmos Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 Here is how I record perfect recordings - even live hard rock concerts without any serious distortion (some distortion may occur due to decibel overloads which you cannot do anything about due to distance from speakers, people shouting next to you or high pitched whistles). First you need a Sharp MD unit. I have used three in the past, the MT99, IMMT899, and the SR70. All three have MIC and LINE inputs. Grab a GOOD set of blank minidiscs. Go with either Sony or TDK. Forget Maxell, Panasonic, etc. They are cheap rubbish IMHO. Perhaps made in Taiwan. Now the most important bit... the mic. Obviously you need a stereo microphone. Forget the old cassette tape mono mics, with single pole connectors. You will NOT get a good recording out of them, even with mono. The best mics I've used are binaural mics and coresounds.com have some very good ones. Of course you don't need to pay hundreds for them. In fact you can even make a pair yourself. There are some sites on the net with basic schematics on how to make a pair. The mic MUST have a battery module or be battery operated to give you the gain necessary for the LINE in. DO NOT USE THE MIC IN FOR LIVE CONCERT RECORDINGS !!!! Mic input is preamped and you WILL get a very distorted/dirty recording that was not worth the effort and risk taking the unit into the venue in the first place! So lets see... we have the recorder, the mic, the battery module.... now how do we conceal it? Well that is up to you. I found that most binaural mics, with battery boxes can be safely tucked under your underpants - just above the groin area. Don't laugh! It's not that bad and you don't risk a bulky square looking packet of cigarettes in your pocket - if you know what I mean. I am of course speaking from a man's point of view, but for the ladies, I am sure it won't be that different. Just roll the excess cabling around itself like a bundle (use wire to hold it together or an elastic band), and stuff the battery module down your pants! When you sit down at the concert, no one will notice you've got it... and for the blokes... you may even get a compliment from the ladies on whether they are excited to see you or whether you have a "large wallet"!! The excess cabling (the two leads for the mics and the lead for the unit) can be safely tucked around the belt/buckle area. What I do is strip my unit (lets say the Sharp IMMT899/888) down to "bare bones" (ie: no remote control, no carry pouch, no extra battery, etc). If you can charge the battery to full before the show and just carry the unit on its own, then you'll be better of in terms of discretness and bulkiness. Now before you "package" the recorder ready for recording you have to test it and mark the recording level to the right amount, in the toilets or before you leave home, to keep the unit at a minimum size. Connect the mic to the unit, set the binaural microphone ends on your body/shirt/whatever and start the REC button. When the unit is recording sounds, set the LINE IN recording volume to around LINE 22 or 23. Now shout something LOUD, but not directly into the mics because that will defintely distort the recording level. Shout a few HOOTS or HOORAY or YEAHs into the air like you would at a normal concert and make it loud, but shout it out straight ahead of you (ie: as normal). Look at the unit recording level and make sure that the LINE level is set so that the recording level is not hitting the end! I am sure you will find that between LINE 22 and 25 is the best. Now turn the unit off, and set the HOLD button on the unit to ON. Place the unit down your pocket, place the battery module down your pants, connect the microphone ends on your chest or behind your ears (if you can). This last bit is up to you. Ideally with binaural mics, you should place the left and right mics below your ear lobe to catch the best realism to how the human head captures sounds. I use blu-tak and stick the mics to the ends of my glasses. If that's not possible, sticky tape (use paper masking tape as that sticks better to the skin) or if you've got a hairy chest like me sow the mics to your shirt! So now what I do, is place the recorder in my pocket (make sure you have the HOLD button set back to ON! You don't want to turn the unit off accidentally), place the battery module down ya pants (LOL) and feed the MINIMUM amount of lead from the battery module to the LINE IN of the unit. Make sure the leads are BLACK by the way! Most are. Put on your "special" shirt with the mics attached to it. Obviously place the shirt over your waste and not tucked into your pants, because you want to conceal as much as possible.... AND GO TO THE SHOW! When you get there, go to the toilets (if security have not scanned you), take out the unit gently (do not disturb the battery module placement and the wiring), turn it on and set it recording. DO NOT CHANGE THE LINE IN VOLUME RECORDING LEVEL. Leave it as you set it back home when you did the "shout test". Set the HOLD button back to ON, and put the recorder back into your pocket. PS: Now this is tempting, but I repeat DO NOT DO THIS because it is tempting. DO NOT ADJUST THE RECORDING LEVEL. Leave it alone! If you MUST look, then only do so because you are sitting right next to the speakers or you have a group of loud hooligans next to you whistling so hard your ears are about to bleed! If you looked and the recording level is peaking above the 4 or infinity symbol then obviously set the recording level down. But you should not have to. 9 out of 10 concerts I've been to have come out flawless using the above procedure. Enjoy the show! 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actorlife Posted March 1, 2004 Report Share Posted March 1, 2004 BRAVO Fernando! Will try your technique, with the Sharp MD-DR7. I'm gonna go see Tom Jones at the Apollo in NYC next week, only thing is i don't have bi mics so i will be using My Mini-Cardiods MM-MCSM-8 with Battery/Filter Module. This will be a sit down venue. What do you think of using the mics in headphones volume control connected to the line-in? any other advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Olmos Posted March 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2004 Yes, I have tried using headphones as "microphones" via the LINE-IN. Again, they would have to be powered for that to work. Otherwise you would have to use the MIC-IN instead. It's a matter of trial and error. Try taking the headphones and unit to a busy corner street or train and try it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted March 3, 2004 Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 If you've got the battery module use it (through Line-in). It will give you a recording that's better balanced. Cardioids are directional, so don't turn around a lot. Using a headphone volume control as an attenuator cord into Mic-In is for folks who need to save money and/or don't want the bulk of the extra box. It works fine, but the battery box is better. The Apollo's security is pretty laissez-faire, so bring the battery box. (Conceal anyway.) Filter as little as possible--what you filter out of the original recording, like bass notes, can't be restored later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Olmos Posted March 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2004 A440, are you the REAL Apollo 440? *shaking here* hehehe Getting back to the topic, what I want to know ... is there a battery box module that totally CUTS OUT distortion, no matter how loud it gets? I would assume some sort of fancy electronics that is able to almost instantly normalise the recording level before it gets into the MD unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actorlife Posted March 8, 2004 Report Share Posted March 8, 2004 I've been practicing with my Sharp DR7, with all kinds of music, but when plugged in the (with battery box) line-in it sounds so low in volume, i tried the mic input with battery box and it sounded much better and louder(no distortion), also the bass & cymbals sound was nicer. You guys ever tried this? I guess i will try this out at free concerts in the summer and see, like you guys say trial & error. Tom Jones concert was sold out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltel Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Hi I've also found the "mic in" to be a better option (Sharp MDMT80) The line in produced a too low volume (with battery box) With the Sharp you can adjust recording levels on the fly also to produce good recordings distortion free. [Mic is a Sony Stereo Electret ECMDS70P] Cheers :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actorlife Posted March 9, 2004 Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 eltel, Indeed, how is your sony mic? I have an old one which produces a flat sound, i like more of a full sound with some bass. With your bass roll off(i'm not too techy) i have 4 switches each for my left and right. i turn on the first two switches for each side and found while practicing the best sound. anybody else use this method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Olmos Posted March 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2004 Hi I've also found the "mic in" to be a better option (Sharp MDMT80) The line in produced a too low volume (with battery box) With the Sharp you can adjust recording levels on the fly also to produce good recordings distortion free. [Mic is a Sony Stereo Electret ECMDS70P] Cheers :cool:HUH!!!?? That is strange. I've had an MT80 and the MIC in was too "highly" preamped for a clean recording. I've had to resort to using the LINE IN for loud concerts and MIC IN for speeches, discussions, nature sounds, etc... where the decibles are less than 10db. I've found if I pump in 20db or greater through the MIC IN (using a lapel stereo mic), the recording turns out to be rubbish. Of course if I place the lapel mic (non powered mic by the way) through the LINE IN, the sound is too soft and the recording level almost has to be at FULL strength. I think the ECM mic you've mentioned is not a battery self powered microphone. I'll have to look that one up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltel Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hi, The Sony mic is a stereo T type (see minidisco.com) and uses the plug in power. The battery module I use was built by a local sound engineer to provide the optimum 4.5v to each side of the mics stereo. However it proved ineffective in the line out [volume too low] but produces excellent undistorted recordings in the mic in with mic level adjustments. :cool: The bad recordings you describe in your Sharp mic in certainly occurred with a Sony MZR 700 we own, where many attempts failed to produce a distortion free recording. Once again the line in proved too low in volume. Interesting is'nt it... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltel Posted March 10, 2004 Report Share Posted March 10, 2004 Hi That's meant to be "line in" in the posting above and not "line out" [which the Sharp MDMT80 does not have anyway] Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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