hi-MD vs iRiver iHP120 newbie question - HELP!

[Confused in Colorado]

Hi there,

I'm fairly new to all of this (i can feel the eyes rolling right now!) but I'm stuck on a decision and I would like people's input. I know that posting on here I'm likely to get an MD-biased response, but you all seem pretty smart and well versed in this stuff so here goes:

I want to purchase a small device for making high quality recordings of my live shows (i'm a comedian). I want the recordings to be high enough quality that I can burn them to a cd later if needed, so I will need to be able to upload them to my PC for editing etc.

I will be using an external mic (will probably go back and forth between a lapel mic and some kind of small stereo mic like a sound pro T-mic or something). When I use the T-mic the unit will be placed on a stool on stage.

I want the unit to be small and unobtrusive. I do not want to have to use an external pack for the microphone power and I do not want to use a microphone pre-amp; just the unit and the mic.

While I will probably use it for listening to music some, I don't have a massive music collection and don't see that changing anytime too soon.

The ability to use as a data drive on both is nice and I'll probably use that. I don't need the 20G of storage on the iRiver, but it is the only small, high bitrate mp3 recorder with an external mic input that I'm aware of (that does not need a preamp).

So, given my needs, what would you all suggest I do -- wait for a Hi-MD recorder or go out and get the iRiver. Do I even need Hi-MD? Will NetMD suffice? Do I lose a lot of quality on the analog input into my PC? I'm confused...

THanks for indulging my ignorance -- I really do appreciate any input/wisdom you can bestow upon me.

[jay_zhead]

I don't know, maybe I am biased, but I figure that Hi-MD is exactly what you need. I have the exact same needs as you (only I record my band). I never use an MP3 unit to record, I only use MD. It provides great quality recording with a stereo mic that fits it. And no, you don't lose a lot of quality on the analog transfer, you hardly lose any quality. Although I do not see how this is relevant, as the Hi-MD will provide you with a digital upload feature.

I am not familiar with the unit you mentioned (iRiver), so I'm not claiming to be an authority. But in my experience, Hand Disk recorders have proved unreliable. You drop that thing once - and your whole library of recordings is gone. The MD is sturdy and reliable; my unit absorbed a ridiculous amount of abuse over the years and is still working perfectly. Plus, you'll have your recordings on a reliable storage medium - the MiniDisc is much more reliable than a regular optical disc (a CD or a DVD). A single STANDARD disc formatted with the Hi-MD format will provide you with enough time to record several shows, and it costs about 2$.

[Rumz]

I've used both the iRiver and MD. I think you've stated your major con for the iRiver-- while it is small enough, will let you record uncompressed audio and simply drag and drop the audio files to your PC (as it acts as a data drive)-- one of the drawbacks for you might be price, you'd have to buy at least 20 gigs to get the mike preamp. Now, I have the iHP-100 which is 10 gigs and does NOT have a mic in/preamp, so I can't comment on the recording quality of the iRiver.

Drawbacks of the iRiver for me-- recording in WAV is limited to a certain file size, I'd have to double check to see what the limitation is, but somewhere around 700-800 MB per recording, I think... maybe 80 - 90 minutes. Also, compared to MD the time it takes to save that one track and start on the next track is a bit long-- this may not be the case on other hard drive recorders, but none that I know of are as small as you will want. I'm told that if you record in MP3, though, there are no such limitations on how long a recording can be. 320kbps mp3s should be suitable to burn to CD.

Another problem would be the battery life, but I'm sure you could get perhaps 3 or more hours of recording out of a single charge. With MD you'd at least have the option to have spare batteries on hand.

Hi-MD will solve a couple of these issues-- for one, a Hi-MD unit will be fairly small and you can get one with a Mic input for quite a bit cheaper than an iRiver ($250 or so for the base Hi-MD model with a mic in). You can buy media as you need it, and it's kinda nice to have your recordings on disc. Hi-MD will let you digitally upload (as long as you're on a PC) so you're not stuck with realtime or quality loss. I also think MD has a proven track record in the portable recording market.

The iRiver is definitely worth some consideration-- it will upload files faster and those files will be easier to edit. It remains to be seen how difficult it will be to edit Hi-MD recordings on a PC that are uploaded digitally, though it should be fairly simple to burn them onto an Audio CD.

I guess I would recommend you wait until Hi-MD comes out to see how it performs and to have a few of our questions answered. To me, recording on MD feels more slick and natural, so I prefer to make recordings that way.

It's hard to say what I'd do in your situation, because I'm already a little biased towards MD and find it a bit more simple and user friendly to record with. Both are good options, and in the end it might be a matter of how much you want to spend. If you have any questions about how either type of unit works, let me know... I'll do my best to answer your questions, having used both. And I apologize for the wordiness of my response

[Leland]

Also, Hi-MD would be substantially more compact. I find in these types of applications, you want the recorder to be as unobtrusive as possible. Even something 50-100g lighter and physically smaller is enough to make it more pocketable. Without question, wait for Hi-MD. NetMD would work, but you would lack the digital upload of Hi-MD, which would be worth the wait.

[Christopher]

Fantastic answers here guys, thanks for the insight.

I just wanted to chime in and say welcome to the forums. :happy:

[Rumz]

Also, Hi-MD would be substantially more compact.  I find in these types of applications, you want the recorder to be as unobtrusive as possible.  Even something 50-100g lighter and physically smaller is enough to make it more pocketable.  Without question, wait for Hi-MD.  NetMD would work, but you would lack the digital upload of Hi-MD, which would be worth the wait.

Hmm... while some MD units are pretty thin, I'm guessing that most Hi-MD units (except the NH1) will be thicker than the iHP-120. The two units (Hi-MD and iHP) are just different shapes-- both fairly tiny and easy to pocket, IMO. The iHP is a bit longer than an MD, but it's also not as wide... and approximately the same thickness, again, unless you go with an N10 or NH1.

[jadeclaw]

Users reported constant regular dropouts during recording with the IHP-120.

Each time the buffer is dumped to disc, a dropout occurs.

See here , the sixth reply from top.

Another point to consider is the limited filesize.

According to the manual it is 795MBytes uncompressed and 195MBytes compressed.

So, it is 90 minutes in decent quality...

HiMD handles 1GByte in one go, giving you 94 minutes uncompressed and a whopping 475 minutes compressed.

And compressed means 99% CD-quality.

And that's the reason, why the iriver is not an option for me.

[Confused in Colorado]

Thank you all -- this has been incredibly helpful and I'm feeling much more convinced that my best bet is to be patient and wait for a Hi MD machine. If you have other input by all means keep posting, but I just wanted to hop into the discussion and let you know this is exactly what I was looking for.

Matt

[baka-baka]

Well, if ur main purpose of the audio device is to do live recording, the MD is unrivaled.

I've heard the the iHP's recording quality's not as good, but im not sure though.

Anyways, recordingwise, go with MD, u won't regret it. :smile:

[Rumz]

Users reported constant regular dropouts during recording with the IHP-120.

Each time the buffer is dumped to disc, a dropout occurs.

See here , the sixth reply from top.

Another point to consider is the limited filesize.  

According to the manual it is 795MBytes uncompressed and 195MBytes compressed.

So, it is 90 minutes in decent quality...

HiMD handles 1GByte in one go, giving you 94 minutes uncompressed and a whopping 475 minutes compressed.

And compressed means 99% CD-quality.

And that's the reason, why the iriver is not an option for me.

I haven't experienced any dropouts, but I also haven't pushed it to the 90 minute limit. I usually just record optical in from a pcdp to WAV in order to circumvent copy protection, which means usually only 60 minutes or so of recording.

It's not to say that MDs are perfect at recording, but they certainly are less apt to have problems -- they are not as much like computers as MP3 players are. When all is said and done, since Hi-MD will probably do auto-track marking like it's predecessor MD, my iHP may not be doing any more wav recording...

[ekiekitabaang]

If one records that 90min of audio data it would be nice to just upload it to the computer via USB faster than in 90min. I'm so fed up with downloading my recordings from net-md to computer through sound card and in real time.

Now it seems that with Hi-MD the problem will be in the end same:

Yes, one can actually download via USB but the recordings will be stuck in Sonic Stage and there is probably not coming any export to wav or aiff possibility.

there is a slight possibility that the recordings can be burned to cd and then ripped to computer for editing. But i-river will still be faster and more straight forward.

That's why i'm still considering iriver iHP120 with which one has no problems at all with upploading.

I wonder when this upploading thing will be clear since it seems to be very important for many of us concidering to buy Hi-MD recorder.

[jadeclaw]

Now it seems that with Hi-MD the problem will be in the end same:

Yes, one can actually download via USB but the recordings will be stuck in Sonic Stage and there is probably not coming any export to wav or aiff possibility.

The problem with SoundStage is the fact, that the visible Export-options depend on the recorder connected.

there is a slight possibility that the recordings can be burned to cd and then ripped to computer for editing.

Change that into High posibility. However, SS2 didn't like my DVD-Writer. (Benq DW-800).

But i-river will still be faster and more straight forward.

But that's it almost...

That's why i'm still considering iriver iHP120 with which one has no problems at all with upploading.

Agreed.

I wonder when this upploading thing will be clear since it seems to be very important for many of us concidering to buy Hi-MD recorder.

I strongly suggest, that you wait atleast until the first Hi-MD are sold and we get some reports back from users. (June, July)

Another point to consider is the quality of the A/D-Converter and preamp. Noise, distortion etcetera. MD-Recorders are usually constructed with Audio in mind, I'm not so sure, if this is the case with MP3 players. And don't fixate on the iRiver, other brands have good offers as well, so take time and compare.

[Confused in Colorado]

what are the other non-md units (i.e. mp3) that you refer to? i thought i river 120 was just about the only one that was small and could do md- quality recordings without an external preamp. are there others?

[ekiekitabaang]

Yes I have gone through numerous but have not found yet a rival

in the sense that i-river is affordable (comparing to the professional media)

and it is small and the upload functions are easy. + there will be a good player for traveling.

On the other hand there is fast growing market on these kind ogf units so I will be very interested of any kind of equipment that will meet somehow these criterias.

Is there a topic for discussing about the rivals if the Hi-MD fails to satisfy the need of musicians, comedians, lecturers, artists, students etc. who wants to find a recording media of digital era that will ease creating of things. Nowadays even non professionals use the computer to edit audio visual material. We have digicams, -videos, everything.. but not an easy USB recorder in the same sense.

Or do we?