Ryan07 Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 use larger discs? Say if Sony was able to make a 2GB disc, would the hardware be capable of using it? I'm not complaining, 1GB is wonderful(especially for $7)... I'm just wondering if there are any hardware limitations concerning disc size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Adjacent Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 use larger discs? Say if Sony was able to make a 2GB disc, would the hardware be capable of using it? I'm not complaining, 1GB is wonderful(especially for $7)... I'm just wondering if there are any hardware limitations concerning disc size.I'm sure there will be larger capacity MD type media in the future. Someone mentioned around 2010, they might be able to fit a terabit onto a minidisc sized platter (that's 125GB), although I don't trust rumors. As for now, from what I have read, the 1GB limit has to do with backward compatibility. For the new generation players to read old media, they had to limit the structure. In research, they did fit 2GB on a HiMD type disc. Maybe we'll see it in future HiMD devices, but for now, the first gen HiMD devices will likely stay limited to 1GB and lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbetsho Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 ah man, it would be so cool to be able to buy 2 GB or even 4.7 GB minidisc players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Adjacent Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 ah man, it would be so cool to be able to buy 2 GB or even 4.7 GB minidisc playersThat would definitely be cool. Especially being able to use them for data. I think it's just a matter of backwards compatibility. I think, from what I gather, if Sony went with 2GB discs, the units would not have been able to read existing/old MD discs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sbetsho Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 That would definitely be cool. Especially being able to use them for data. I think it's just a matter of backwards compatibility. I think, from what I gather, if Sony went with 2GB discs, the units would not have been able to read existing/old MD discs.This wouldn't be a problem even in a slightest for me, I would have zero use of old discs when I'd have new 2 GB discs. damn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazeybt1 Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 hmm... :grin: i have a wonderful idea that i could sell to sony..instead of the costly n constant upgrades of disks supporting bigger capacities n units to go along..Think outside the box Geniuses... ne who... :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixeo Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 I'm sure there will be larger capacity MD type media in the future. Someone mentioned around 2010, they might be able to fit a terabit onto a minidisc sized platter (that's 125GB), although I don't trust rumors. As for now, from what I have read, the 1GB limit has to do with backward compatibility. For the new generation players to read old media, they had to limit the structure. In research, they did fit 2GB on a HiMD type disc. Maybe we'll see it in future HiMD devices, but for now, the first gen HiMD devices will likely stay limited to 1GB and lower.personally i think it would suck majorly if future 2GB or 4.7GB Hi-MD can't be used on the current Hi-MD devices. if it can't be used, then the devices shouldn't be called Hi-MD, either that, the future 2GB or 4.7GB MD will be called Hi-MD2 or something think of it as the memory stick and memory stick pro situation. say you've got a camera that uses memory stick, they can't come out with a 1GB memory stick and say the old devices cant use it but the new ones can.. that would mean a whole new standard.. a.k.a memory stick pro i would feel terribly ripped off and angry if i purchased the Hi-MD devices and 1 year down the road they came out with 2GB Hi-MD and tell me my device can't use it... and a 1GB limitation would really suck. anybody have any official word as to Hi-MD's size limitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 I think it is definitely possible. I read alot about optical storage and the compression techniques that Hi-MD exploits and the possibility is definitely there. Compatibility is another thing, however..but I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5 gb Hi-MD disc later down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 personally i think it would suck majorly if future 2GB or 4.7GB Hi-MD can't be used on the current Hi-MD devices. if it can't be used, then the devices shouldn't be called Hi-MD, either that, the future 2GB or 4.7GB MD will be called Hi-MD2 or somethingThey will get a different name... And higher capacity media will definitely not play in current Hi-MD units. The reason for that is simple: With the type of laser used, the physical limit is reached. DWDD is already employed to overcome the shortcomings, that is presented by the backward compatibility. To increase the capacity further, it will be necessary to use a different laser (shorter wavelength) and that requires a different modulator layer as well. That layer, which contains the data, must match the laser used, otherwise it will be invisible to the laser. You can expect, when the next generation is launched, these will then be dual-laser units, that will play current media as well as the new media offered by then. But Hi-MD will never be more than 1GB. The other question will be: Do you really need more than that? The only reason for bigger capacity would be video... think of it as the memory stick and memory stick pro situation. say you've got a camera that uses memory stick, they can't come out with a 1GB memory stick and say the old devices cant use it but the new ones can.. that would mean a whole new standard.. a.k.a memory stick proIt already happens. Continuously. Had an Olympus C-820. Took Smartmedia, limit: 16 MB. Smartmedia was available up to 128MB. My current Digicam takes CF-Cards. Limit: 128MB. CF-Cards are available up to 1GB, 2GB is in development. You have to live with it. i would feel terribly ripped off and angry if i purchased the Hi-MD devices and 1 year down the road they came out with 2GB Hi-MD and tell me my device can't use it... and a 1GB limitation would really suck. I don't think, that bigger MDs are on the horizon in the next 5 years. Remember, it takes a few years from the first successful experiments to a finished product, that is ready for mass production. One example: Tesa-Rom. Cheap transparent adhesive tape as a medium for data. The idea was born more than five years ago, the whole thing is still in an experimental phase. It is not going fast in this area. anybody have any official word as to Hi-MD's size limitation?See further up, it is a physical problem, not a political one. It might have been possible to push the limit even further, but reliability and fault/media tolerance must be maintained as well. Reliability and media tolerance is, where Minidisc really shines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixeo Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 thanks for the explaination jadeclaw. but i think sony just wants to make more money by limiting the 1st gen himd to 1GB, so you'll buy the 2nd gen i mean why would anybody bother using MDs when you have 1GB Hi-MDs? i know i wouldn't. probably ebay it away or use it with my normal MDs (if i had any that is) if this 1GB limitation is true, then i'd have to reconsider about purchasing a unit. and to answer your question, yes, we would need more than that..because the truth is space will never be enough.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efenili Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Its seems like a simple decision to me, and Sony went with the smarter choice. For the amount of people that will complain about the limit, there are probably 10x as many people that would have complained about not being able use the 30 discs they already have. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixeo Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Its seems like a simple decision to me, and Sony went with the smarter choice. For the amount of people that will complain about the limit, there are probably 10x as many people that would have complained about not being able use the 30 discs they already have. -Edtrue, sony did went with the smarter choice, to make more money. people would have already own an MD player to own the 30 discs. and 1 Hi-MD disc = 5 normal ones. why would anybody bother carrying 5 discs around when they can carry 1? i know i wouldn't carry 5 MD around if i could just carry 1 Hi-MD.. i believe the idea behind MDs was portability but dont quote me by the way, does anybody have links to article stating that 1GB is *the* limit for the current Hi-MD devices? or any technical papers implying so? that would be most helpful, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 true, sony did went with the smarter choice, to make more money. Yep. By not pushing the limits too far, it is possible to keep the number of units failing low, thus reducing cost in the service department. And production cost is lower as well. people would have already own an MD player to own the 30 discs. and 1 Hi-MD disc = 5 normal ones. why would anybody bother carrying 5 discs around when they can carry 1? i know i wouldn't carry 5 MD around if i could just carry 1 Hi-MD.. i believe the idea behind MDs was portability but dont quote me Right, but I will sell off my current equipment as soon as Sony comes out with a decent home deck. And I think, many more will do that too. Do you keep your old refrigerator when you buy a new one? by the way, does anybody have links to article stating that 1GB is *the* limit for the current Hi-MD devices? or any technical papers implying so? that would be most helpful, thanks.I don't know, what you want to achieve here, but if a manufacturer states a certain capacity in the specifications, I see that as the top limit. Ok, a link: http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html Then scroll down to article 18. There you have the physical specifications. Now compare Hi-MD with MD-View, which actually is very close to DVD-technology. They you'll see, that Hi-MD IS at the physical limit. Anything above 1GB will need a completely different technology, so forget about playing anything bigger in current Hi-MD units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixeo Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 there's nothing i want to "achieve" really. i just wanna to learn more about what i'm putting my money on, making an educated purchase. for me, its more of an investment as i am a student. i wouldn't be very happy to purchase something that would be replaced in less than a year. the way i see it, Hi-MD is merely a format, and the 1GB MD is a media that adheres to the format. so i'm just looking at the possibility of larger capacity medias in the same format and whether its usable by the current devices. but as you said, if DWDD's limitation *is* 1GB, then i think a 2GB Hi-MD wont possible, and it'll be a new format altogether. thats what i wanted to achieve :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixeo Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 i got somemore information read this (if you can read french) http://www.mdfr.com/faqs/#23 and if you can't i got a french friend to translate it for me "technically, DWDD allows a data density of 15GB/square inch, so the maximum capacity for a Hi-MD disc would be 4.7GB, the same as a single sides, single layer DVD disc. the problem is that the optical system of old MD players is not precise enough for this kind of data density, the wavelength between normal MD and Hi-MD are very different, so the optical systems are physically different so they would need a dual optical system, one for MD, one for Hi-MD, or a system that can change wavelength which, on a portable player, would have many reliability, size, and durability problems so for now, they decided to use an optical system similar to the classic MD though sony is currently working on a 2GB version, using the optical system of the MD2 and in the future, it will be theoretically possible to have 1TB optical discs, so it leaves a lot of headway for Sony to increase capacity of the Hi-MDs" so from what i understand, there *WILL* be larger capacity MD, but whether current Hi-MD devices can support them, thats up to sony. this 1GB Hi-MD is just to phase out the old MD and in the future they can introduce 4.7GB with less problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazeybt1 Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/e3-sony-ps...pecs-016102.php yup that's right they can do better than just 1 GB but y hold back u know..come on..they say this Sony PSP will be able to play games equavalent to PS2 Games..eg: GT4..sony knows what they're doing ..check out the unit from the link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted May 15, 2004 Report Share Posted May 15, 2004 crazey, check out this news article I posted about the PSP: http://forums.minidisc.org/viewtopic.php?t=4741 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazeybt1 Posted May 17, 2004 Report Share Posted May 17, 2004 no prob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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