Recording volume too low

[heth]

Hi, I'm new to MD and recording, so I'm not very up on terminology or technology.

I'm trying to record a band practice on a MZ-N510 MD player with a Sony ECM-MS907 microphone. I was happy with the quality of the recording except for the volume, and the idea is to burn it to CD to hand out to pubs to get us gigs. Can anyone suggest anything I can do to whack the volume up abit?

The mike was just infront of the two vocalists, with the guitar amps infront facing it, the PA speakers behind them and the drummer between the PA speakers. Hope this makes sense, I'm starting to get really vexed by this cos I'm spending money on gadgets that aren't giving me the quick, easy results I was promised they would.

thanks in advance

[KJ_Palmer]

Your main problem is that the N510 recorder lacks a microphone input (mic plug-in power). If you can part-exchange it for one with this facility (eg. the N710) then this would be an immediate and probably cheap remedy. A Sharp recorder would be even better for you (eg. MD-MT290 or IM-DR420).

There is also the possibility of getting an external battery box or mic-pre-amp from soundprofessionals.com, but you'd be messing about with extra wires, batteries, boxes, not to mention expense...

[heth]

Thanks for the speedy response.

Any suggestions of where I could part exchange?

[KJ_Palmer]

No, sorry, I meant back to the place where you bought it, if that's possible.

[heth]

well, i've managed to sell it to a friend of a friend. Unfortunately I've had it over a year so there was no way the shop would take it back.

What's your thoughts on the Sony Hi-MD players vs your Sharp suggestions? I'm currently using an Xitel MD Port I/O to upload to my PC and I'm tempted to ditch that if Sony have finally opened up Sonic Stage (although it is the most awful software in the world! )

[KJ_Palmer]

OK, I'm glad you sorted that out. Hopefully you won't be without a recorder for too long.

The current Sharp MD recorders are very good, I have the IM-DR420, which I think would be ideal for your needs. The microphone recording facilities for Sharps have always been several steps ahead of Sonys, though the gap may be closing.

I really couldn't recommend waiting for the Hi-MD. The microphone-enabled ones (NH700/800/900/1) won't be with us till at least July/August, and probably get pushed towards christmas when we get there... It will of course be worth it when they come, but still there are bound to be loads of copying restrictions even then which may or may not be breakable...

My advice: keep your Xitel and get a Sharp...

[heth]

thanks Kevin, your post has been extremely helpful.

I was getting very very frustrated and grumpy with my MD. Hopefully the Sharp one will serve me well for many years to come. Gonna pop into Richer Sounds this week and get one.

[KJ_Palmer]

Glad to have helped. That mic-input will make all the difference (you'll probably want either the IM-DR420 or MD-MT290 of the newer models). But look out for Richer's deals on older models, they often have plenty of old-but-great models at bargain prices.

Sharps have the edge over Sonys in Europe at the moment anyway. And Richer Sounds have a very good return policy, so you should be well covered in any case.

Well, let us know how you get on... :smile:

[heth]

So... went to Richer Sounds and was told that the DR420 is being replaced by the DR410. Bought it, tried it just singing next to the hifi speaker to see what happened. Exactly the same performance as the Sony!

I've got 2 weeks before a band practice and I can exchange it after that if it's no good. Am I panicking too soon? I expected a dramatic difference in performance, even with my low tech test. I expected to be able to record something and not have to turn the volume right up on the hifi to play it back.

[KJ_Palmer]

Oh no, I thought that might happen, sorry, I should have warned you.

You should take it back immediately! The DR410 is the non-microphone version of the DR420. They (Richer Sounds) should have known that. And don't get the DR400 either - that's even worse.

Where do you live, heth? If RS don't have the DR420, then try a Dixons, I saw (in London) even today they have some DR420's. This is the model to get, but please check before buying that it has a microphone input...

I also saw that Dixons have the Sony MZ-N910 for £168. This is a bargain - if you can afford one. It's a high end Sony recorder (with mic-in!!!).

Sorry, what a nightmare, hope it works out....

[heth]

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

I told Richer Sounds exactly why I was getting rid of my Sony and why I wanted the Sharp!!!

I live in Exeter. I'll ring around tomorrow and see who has got what. Richer apparently don't do refunds though, only exchanges, so I could be abit stuffed for shopping elsewhere.

There should be a big label on MDs saying "if you want to use a mic with this, buy a different model!" They don't seem to make it very obvious.

[KJ_Palmer]

Sorry, heth.

Richer Sounds do at least stock some recorders with a mic-in jack.

Here are some to look for:

Sharp IM-DR420, MD-MT290, MD-MT190/200, MD-MT88/99

Sony N710, N910

But, as I say, please check (physically if possible as RS look like idiots) for a mic-in / plug in power jack. Usually red on the side of the unit.

Good luck, sorry about the confusion...

[PaulBennett]

Obtain a mixer such as the Behringer 602 or 802. This will allow you to adjust your various inputs for balance and also provide the proper level to your line input. These units are $50 - $100 used. You need the mixer anyway, why not solve your problem with it.

[heth]

Thanks for that but I've already bought a new MD. A Sony MZ-N710.

There were only 3 options available - the 910 (but I didn't like the menu scroll wheel), the 710 and the nasty ugly Sharp that doesn't have a USB.

I'm rather happy with the upgrade, although a bit cross with myself for getting the 510 in the first place but hopefully this will serve me well for years to come. I've got a week and a half before I can try it out in a band practice. Fingers crossed. :smile:

[A440]

The MZ-N710 has a mic sensitivity switch among the menus. Check your manual.

If you're recording a rock band in a small room you probably want to switch it to LOW sensitivity so it doesn't overload.

Once the band is set up, it's well worth the time to do a test recording with both high and low sensitivity settings to see what sounds best, so you won't be disappointed again. If there's time, you can also experiment with mic placement, though maybe you've already found the sweet spot.

And be sure to put the MD on something soft so it doesn't get vibrated during the recording.

[High Rise]

Gday

my first post to this site. :grin:

Ive bought a MZ-N710 as well for the same purposes as Heth. My rock band is playing a gig this Thursday and I wanted to record our set live - the instruments will be fully mic'd. In the past at other venues a sound eng has connected the MD (different sony model) to the tape output on the mixing desk via a stereo lead. Apparently his model had an optic / line / and mic input. The sound quality was great and we were able to put together a decent quality demo onto cd. Any suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated. :smile: Thanks in advance.

1. Reading previous posts i acknowledge that recording loud sources can result in clipping. So the best way to get around this is ... ? I can set the mic sensitivity to low on this MD model. The different inputs can also affect the ground level, isnt it? WHich input will give the best result?

2. Do you recommended to simply record thru a microphone? Does this result in good quality (assuming the front house mix is good :rasp: ).

3. When I transfer the data onto PC, again which connection should i use? ive got sonic stage V1.5 but I cant work out how to dump the MD onto the hard drive via USB.

4. Our practice room (pretty big) has a PA with a tape output but only vocal mics. I tried setting up a couple of mics in the of the room opposite the drum kit. We mic'd up the guitar cab and ... crap quality. Any experience/ suggestions.

Again thanks for your help. :smile:

Hey Heth, let us know how ur project turns out.

[High Rise]

pays to read all the threads before posting annoying first-timer questions :rasp: sorry. i know about transferring from MD to PC now but still the question about recording....

[squaredcircle]

Your 710 has a line-in that will accept either optical or analog.

[jimbhuna]

Hello

New here as well, just bought a 710 the other day, good deal re-boxed by Sony, all bits in and software for £100!

Live recording my band one of the reasons for it, does setting the record level manually make any difference or is the auto one enough?

Hopeing to record off a mixing desk for next gig, but is there any mileage in trying to record practises etc with just a single, cheap mic plugged into the 710?

Cheers Jim

[KJ_Palmer]

It's probably worth a shot, though if you're a very loud rock (etc.) band you'll almost certainly get some distortion. As mentioned, setting the mic sensitivity to low is a must, as will be careful mic placement. Might as well give it a try anyway.

If you're serious about mic recording, you'll need a battery box from the likes of sound professionals, possibly one with a built in pre-amp.

[jimbhuna]

It's probably worth a shot, though if you're a very loud rock (etc.) band you'll almost certainly get some distortion. As mentioned, setting the mic sensitivity to low is a must, as will be careful mic placement. Might as well give it a try anyway.  

If you're serious about mic recording, you'll need a battery box from the likes of sound professionals, possibly one with a built in pre-amp.

Fairly loud yes...but good of course :smile:

Found sensitivity setting and put to low but was first day I'd bought it and all a bit new, plus were playing gig so had to soundcheck, get drunk etc! :laugh:

Seriousish...building up from scratch, main use for mini disk is to record electronic stuff at home to be fed into live band live...hopefully!

[KJ_Palmer]

Great stuff, let us know how you get on...

For better fidelity output, you might be interested in getting an MD recorder with a line out mode, such as the N910. The N710 is fine as it goes, but doesn't have a line out, and is a bit on the quiet side through the headphone out.

[jimbhuna]

. The N710 is fine as it goes, but doesn't have a line out, and is a bit on the quiet side through the headphone out.

_________________

bugger! :ohmy:

[heth]

Hurray hurray hurray, happy minidisc day!!! :smile:

Took my new N710 to band practice the other night and it worked a treat.

I need to work on getting the balances better in the room, cleaning up the wav once it's on my PC, etc. but the basics are working

Thank you to everyone who's responded to this post - especially Kevin who helped with the whole Richer Sounds fiasco! When I'm on TOTP I'll give you a mention :wink:

[jimbhuna]

ditto, I too recorded band rehearsal last night, only a drunken listen when I got home but sounded great. Now to install PC Software and get messing wit the sound!

Cheers

[KJ_Palmer]

Thank you to everyone who's responded to this post - especially Kevin who helped with the whole Richer Sounds fiasco! When I'm on TOTP I'll give you a mention  :wink:

Glad it worked out for you heth, I suppose I'll have to start watching TOTP now :laugh: ...

Cheers

[High Rise]

up until now ive been using a simple DAT recorder (utilising the built in mic) at jams. last week the guitarist had a cry bout the recording quality being too crap. ive got a md (as listed in my earlier post) and having read this thread thought i might try recording in the jam room (initial intent was to only use the MD to record our live gigs ie: connected directly to the mixing desk).

jimbhuna & heth, what type of mics are you using with your MD's? i play in a 4 piece (loud ) rock band and the room has a simple PA system (8 channel with Tape input/output). Have you ever tried recording with the MD connected direct to the PA and is so, were the results OK? Im not looking for excellent clarity, just a setup that will give better results than the DAT recorder we're currently using. :happy:

thanks in advance. point about using low mic sensitivity is noted.

[heth]

I've got a Sony ECM-MS907 mike. I got it on the internet rather than the Sony Centre and paid £65 instead of £90!

We haven't really bothered getting a good balance yet - just switching the MD on and letting it run, so the sound isn't as good as it could be, but we're in a mad panic about an upcoming gig so quick and dirty will do for now.

Abit grumpy with the transfer to PC at the mo - I keep getting clicks on the wav after transfer. Think I need to tinker with the Xitel software abit, but now wishing that I'd got the more expensive MD with optical output. I did consider changing it and thought - this is getting silly! I prefer the one I've got now for other use so I'll stick with it. We've found a recording studio locally for £13 an hour so when we want a really good recording, we're gonna bite the bullet and go there.

[sup8]

Last night i recorded a heavy rock band at a club. it was the first time i used the bass roll off battery box from sound masters through the line-in. the sound quality is much improved, but the playback volume is a lot quieter than before. what would cause that? the box, line in? record volume was on auto like before.