Michael_Walker Posted July 8, 2004 Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 apparently these are available here (i'm in Russia) So i am on the verge of picking one up. the only problem is that i cant find much info on line ( what there is, is in Russian) and no manual in particular. i need a HI-MD recorder to take to my band rehearsals and gigs and just dub the analogue main mix off the board every night (to save lugging my laptop across town every day).. recording into the line inputs of the 600 the plan would be record in PCM , take it home and dump the files to my puter. I'm just wondering if the 600 will do the job, or if i should wait till august/whenever and get a 700/800/900. I would like to be able to at least set the input levels, dont know if i can on this model! we have the MZ-NH600-LEE, MZ-NH600-SEE, MZ-NH600-WEE all available right now, near as i can tell they are just different colors of the same unit. any advice would be greatly appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2004 hmmm.. seems that hi-MD CANT record linear PCM and then dump it to puter... here is the transcript of my chat with sony a minute ago: Arnold: Hi, my name is Arnold. How may I help you? You: Hi! I am trying to find some info before a Hi-MD purchase.. You: i want to use Hi-MD portable (with line inputs) to record my band rehearsals, and then take the unit home and dump the audio tracks to my computer.. is this possible? Arnold: I am glad to know that you are interested in the new Hi-MD players. ** at this point i suspected that arnold was a BOT :-) Arnold: Are you interested in recording a live music and then transfer that music to the computer? You: yes, exactly.. .right now i have to lug my notebook computer across town every night.. would like to replace it with Hi_MD recorder! Arnold: May I know the operating system of your computer? You: currently, win2000 on all my machines Arnold: Yes, you can do that Micheal. May I know the model number of HiMD player that you are interested in? You: i'm in russia, and the only hi-MD machine currently availble here is the MZ-NH600/LEE ( also SEE & WEE, which i think are just different colors)... i am hoping i can get its menus to display english - i cant find a manula for it on the russian site. Apparently its an NH-600 + optical and line inputs, i'm not sure what domestic model manual would have the same 'recording' features... Arnold: I am afraid I do not have information about models that are available on Russia. You: OK... the other question ( aside from the menu language and whereabouts of a manual i could look at) is if you can tell me if PCM tracks recorded on th eunit, and transferred to the computer are stored in a lossless format ( like WAV file) that i can edit later? Arnold: I am afraid the PCM tracks from the MD cannot be transferred to the computer. You: not at all? that kind of defeats the whole purpose of buying one! what kind of recordings CAN be transferred from the MD to the computer? Arnold: The tracks that are recorded in HiMD mode (ATRAC) can only be transferred back to computer for editing. You: hmmm.. so ATRAC3 (256K-ish) recordings is the best it can do,( if i want to be able to later edit the tracks on the puter), but i can record linear PCM to disks to sort of "archive" material (although i can never actually do anything with the archives - aside from play them on the MD unit) ??? Is that correct? Arnold: Yes, you are correct. You: thanks for clearing that up! is there a web site where i can get the exact details on the recording formats (particularly which ones i can later transfer to the puter and convert to a wav file for editing) ?? Arnold: Please note that not all the MD players support PCM format. You: yes, sorry, i meant Hi-MD players, those are the only ones i am considering (due to the better recording fidelity allegedly possible) Arnold: The Hi-MD players support PCM format. You: OK, thanks very much for your time, arnold, have a nice day/evening/etc :-) Arnold: I will forward few pages with with you can get more information on Hi-MD players and the formats. Arnold: http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/ You: thanks very much :-) URL Received: http://www.sony.net/Products/ATRAC3/overvi...view/index.html Arnold: Are you able to view the pages? You: yes, i can see those :-) Arnold: Is there anything else that I can assist you with? You: thats all for now, thank youi very much! Arnold: Thank you for using Sony Online Support today. Please feel free to contact us for further assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazmaan Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 This gets more bogus every week, Sony can take their HiMD and shove it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fray Adjacent Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I bet there is a way to do it, but Sony doesn't want to support it. We just need some hax0r code wiz to figure out how to find the PCM data on the drive and extract it to .WAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Well, the sounddata is directly accessible, that makes breaking any protection much easier. What is wondering me is the fact, that the support and spokespeople at Sony always give out conflicting information, while the manuals are ambiguous about the software side. However, the manual for the NH900 states that transferring PCM-Recordings can take a long time due to the limitations in the MD-System. (Page 121) That tells me, that PCM can be uploaded... If you want an advice, personally, I would take the NH900. Reason: The edit mode, especially the rehearsal mode when dividing tracks, like it's done on home decks. That allows to edit out unwanted parts very precisely. Much easier and quicker than with a wave editor on a pc. The manuals are available onsite. http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/Sony_...tion_manual.pdf http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/Sony_...tion_manual.pdf http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/Sony_...tion_manual.pdf http://minidisc.org/manuals/sony/Sony_MZ-N...tion_manual.pdf http://minidisc.org/manuals/sony/MZNH600D.pdf (covers only the US-Version.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Sure, i would "take" the NH900, or better yet the magnesium-bodied one (NH-1?) if it were EVER going to appear in stores here! But i have been waiting forever, i need this unit TODAY so i can stop dragging my notebook across town every day (its ancient, getting battered, - i just had to shell out $170 for a new screen, and frankly its just awkward carrying it on our crowded Moscow subways!) But really, this is pretty utilitarian, i dont need 6-band digital EQ, or a radio, or digital headphone amp (well, maybe!) - just give me a pair of line inputs, and PCM-quality recording, and i have a serviceable notebook-replacement! I dont plan do do much EDITING really - recordings made with this unit will always be "captured" live performances, which means we will take the bad with the good, ("warts and all...") if the energy of the take is up to standards. No editing required! (just a little mastering on those keeper takes) :grin: The main use for this right now is daily "rushes" where i dump the takes from our rehearsal to my main computer, convert them to fairly lo-fi 96K mono MP3, and post them on my webserver (or burn to CD) so the other band members can hear what they did. Later, i would like to use it for recording actual GIGS in hi-fi PCM glory... anything actually releaseable would likely be from a gig, not a rehearsal. Hi-MD looked like a good way to archive gigs in PCM for future evaluation (usefull when we are gigging more regularly, since the giggage is cheaper than hard drives! But i guess if the (much hoped for) crack around this PCM restriction isn't found, i can revert to lugging the notebook to gigs, or (shudder) buy a DAT machine ("DAT SUCKS!") So, anyway ... count me in on the "early-adopter" bandwagon, i took the plunge and "bought" a MZ-NH600/LEE ( blue case) today! Actually, i visited some shops (which had nothing but old MDs) and my wife (the only russian-speaker in the house) called a bunch of the largest SONY dealers, and was told "the Hi-MD isn't certified yet" - which i took as dealer-speak for "we can't get them yet" I went to the russian sony web-store, (http://www.sonystyle.ru/sonystyle/main.screen) and had Lena CALL the web store and verify that they actually really DO have them in stock as listed on the front page. They said they did, and advised us to register at the web-store. So, they NOW promise to deliver one to my house "within 5 days" (its friday evening here, and i wont be home this weekend anyway) for only an extra ten bucks delivery charge. So total cost, US$200. Now the traditional "sony bad news in the fine print": - it doesnt come with even a single Hi-MD disk! In fact, it doesnt even come with an "old" MD disk! It comes with NOTHING, not even a 10 cent AA battery! I have a suspicion that the russian distributor is probably strippng all the hi-MD media out of them to re-sell later! Or does SONY actually have the audacity to sell these without even one disk included? I know one thing, the russian sony web-store doesnt offer ANY MD media! I have seen the 'old' MD media all over the place, so at least i can get a few of those at local kiosks. But it might be a couple months before i can get any Hi-MD discs so i can evaluate this unit properly! I dont suppose anyone knows where i can buy them mail-order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Or does SONY actually have the audacity to sell these without even one disk included?Every unit includes a HiMD disc, except the 600D :rasp: btw, you can convert a standard MD to HiMD format, and try the PCM stuff out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Hmm, your "no disk included" made me wonder first, if a local dealer strips the packages. But Sony themselves are taking them out. Checked Sony's site using Altavistas Babelfish. Btw, in Germany, the NH600 comes without disk and battery too - so this is standard. When you have it, please report about the results. Especially about uploading and exporting, since the manuals aren't specific about that. Oh, and where can we listen in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Every unit includes a HiMD disc, except the 600D :rasp: Then check the manuals - None comes with a disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 I shall post some detailed reports next week :smile: - last week i was really looking hard to see a review of the Australian 'line-equipped' 600 version, but couldnt find any online. But this one will be well-documented (especially the mysterious software features)! I have lots of digital gear here, so can test the digital input too... After i get it working, I can probably post a few 'snippets' of recordings over on my Canadian web-server (i dont have much bandwidth here...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breepee Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Then check the manuals - None comes with a disc. Hmm, here in the Netherlands, Sony has a special 'action' that every unit (except the 600) has a HiMD disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 9, 2004 Report Share Posted July 9, 2004 Then consider yourself lucky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirpilf Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 wtf u talkin about i saw 600s at target and i could clearly see a hi-md disc included. but for russian distributers.. thats retarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackBone Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 guys what`s the problem? if u can play the file from a computer connected to a hi-md, u dont need to copy it(well u cant) hehe - u just get software that records music from soundcard. It might not have the original PCM quality( i might be incorrect in that one) but you can still record it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirpilf Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 i have a random question about sonicstage. lets say ihave 2.5gb of MP3s... when i burn them to Hi-MD and SS converts it to atracplus3, am i actually doubling how much music is on my computer? is sonicstage actually making a second copy of the song on my harddrive? thats what some people claim is a big drawback about atracplus3 but i wouldnt know, any1 know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananatree Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 I will be happy to send you a regular 74 min MD if you promise to send me something russian . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 @sirpilf: It might be an introductionary offer, according to the manual and the websites, no discs are included. Yes, SonicStage will copy it into the Atrac-format. That means, you will have 5 GB music on your pc. @CrackBone: Sure, that's possible and the quality is retained as well as the data is taken off before it reaches the soundcard itself, but it takes time. 1 hour playing time == 1 hour copying time. That's why everyone wants uploading instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Zombietycho: thanks, but i can buy normal 'MD' media locally at any software kiosk on the street. :smile: my soundcard does let me record off the soundcard "stereo mix" but i dont know if thats actually digital, or after its converted to analogue. In any event, IF indeed sony is streaming the PCM playback into the puter via the USB cable, then I am sure there is a way to capture it . The question is, WHY should i have to jump through hoops to access the full fidelity data of MY own PCM recording of my own original music? When I make analogue recordings off the line inputs, or indeed, digital recordings (off my digital guitar amp or mixer) through the digital input, then it should be nobody's business what i do with that data! (I assume Sony has SCMS incorporated in the digital input already, to thwart would-be copyright infringers*...) * note: i know that such devices as a $200 Behringer SRC2496 Ultramatch Pro Format Convertor are routinely used to strip off SCMS data during digital transfers - i just do not advocate the use of such devices for piracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 my soundcard does let me record off the soundcard "stereo mix" but i dont know if thats actually digital, or after its converted to analogue.It is digital, as the signal is grabbed off before it reaches the actual hardware. In any event, IF indeed sony is streaming the PCM playback into the puter via the USB cable, then I am sure there is a way to capture it . Yes. That's how I record streaming radio. The question is, WHY should i have to jump through hoops to access the full fidelity data of MY own PCM recording of my own original music? Definitely not. But since the recorder cannot determine, if the music is copyrighted or not, copyright is always assumed. Correct, but expect the SCMS-Bits to play a role. However, professional/musicians equipment usually can set the bits to non-protect, allowing unlimited copying. Feel free to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 You should be able to feed the audio into the computer digitally [in a 1:1 scenario] and capture it via a program like CoolEdit Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirpilf Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 If sonicstage copys all my music as atrac, cant i delete it after i burn it anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 600/LEE SAGA update... i ordered this thing from Sonystyle.ru last weekend.. they emailed back confirmation and said they would call and let us know when they would come by and deliver it on monday or tuesday. Actually, they didnt respond by tuesday , so we phoned them and they said they would call us back with a shipping date. (yeah, right!) By wednesday we had to call them again, and they promised to deliver it "sometime on friday morning". By friday noon, not a peep, so we called again, and this time they say they will deliver between 10Am -4 pm Monday "for sure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 got it! :grin: here is what i got... The unit, USB cable, SonicStage 2.0 CD, a cheap set of headphones, 3 extra ferrite beads ( for optional line & power cables) and manuals in about 8 languages (happily - one is in ENGLISH) NO MD, and NO battery :rasp: reading the manual was pretty obtuse.. actually its one of those manuals you have to sit down and read - the index isnt much help. I did manage to figure out how to put a battery and disc in it, and with a little peeking through the manual discovered how to initiate recording, and set the input level. So i recorded a one minute sample through the line input. I was a bit surprised to find the same 1/8th mini jack doubles as both analogue AND digital input.. i was thinking it would be an OPTICAL SPDIF, but apparently its just the copper wire version? !! WAITAMINUTE !! - according to the manual, it IS an optical input too (just not the standard square SPDIF connector i am used to) It DOES say "OPTICAL" right on the case, too :wink: The teeny tiny controls were a bit disconcerting, it took me a minute to figure out that the "nib' in the center of the jog wheel is not only a switch, but a "joystick" too. :wacky: Once i figured that out, i was able to turn up the volume! I made the test recording in "Hi-SP" mode (so I could play around with SonicStage easier) and (through those cheap headphones, at least) its impossible to distinguish between the source and the copy. Not Too Shabby! some closeup pics to follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 its smaller than i thought it would be ( this is a good thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 the very useful AC adapter input (i gotta go buy one of them things!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 side view (L-R) headphones unidentified 4-pin header ( for a remote, maybe?) analogue/digital input jack USB ( under rubber flap) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 peek-a-boo! (dual-purpose optical and 1/8" stereo minijack provides digital AND analogue input) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 back view - battery cover is reasonably sturdy, with captive lid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 coughing up the test disk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 a look inside ( not much to see... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 finally, a better look at the ferrite beads, and my test MD (which formatted nicely to 269 megs free ) I'm going to install the SonicStage when i get home this evening, and see how eveything works (including PCM recording) over the next couple days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Fantastic pictures! Is this unit black or blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Its Blue (the "LEE" model).. actually a bit more blue than most of the pictures indicate, its sort of royal metallic blue. Today i loaded SonicStage on my ancient PIII-650 notebook, and gave it a spin. For starters, it took quite along time to install, decided it wanted to update my DirectX first (i think i had 8.something on there). Then i was wondering why it seemed to be stuck at 30% for so long, so i moved a couple windows and found one of those "are you sure you want to install an unsigned driver" dialog boxes underneath! It would have sat there ALL DAY if i hadnt done that... For some reason i got about 12 of those in a row as it was installing... you would think a big company like SONY could manage to sign their friggin drivers (sheesh) Anyway, it all works pretty much as advertised. ( i think) First thing i did was add about 3 dozen of my favorite MP3s to 'my library" so i could transfer them to the MD for playback. Transferring to MD took about 30 seconds to 1 minute per song (they were 2 to 5 minute songs) about a dozen of them were on a drive across our LAN, and it insisted on copying them to the local hard drive before adding them to the library. But that worked OK.. Next i popped in a half-dead Alkaline AA and headed across town. I stuffed the MD player in my pants pocket, and was very pleased that the playback never skipped once the whole trip, not even when i ran to catch the subway car. When i arrived at our rehearsal space downtown i slapped it on our mixer output for a few minutes while we did a quick jam as the drummer and guitarist tested out some brand new gear (new midi kick drum trigger pad, and Vox ToneLab, respectively). I just left it on auto-level ( AGC) to see what it would do. I must say it worked very well! No audible 'pumping', the levels stayed steady at about -12 , and sound was noticeably crystal clear, even though i wasnt recording PCM, only ATRAC3+ (256-ish). When i got home, i just fired up SoundForge (my favorite audio editor), and recorded the tracks in real-time (using the soundcards 'mix input' ) as i played them back from sonicstage. I later tried importing them into the library, which it did fine, (and pretty quick - about 5X realtime) but there seemed to be no facility for exporting them to another format. No huge crisis i guess, since it seems that the realtime dub was picking up the stream in digital form (i could not detect any audible noise to suggest it had gone through a D/A conversion...) Next time i will try some PCM recording. I had a bit of fun today looking at HMA files on the 'removable hard drive' and i even defragged the MD, just for the heck of it :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ppk3000 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I had a bit of fun today looking at HMA files on the 'removable hard drive' and i even defragged the MD, just for the heck of it :smile:You can actually defrag it and improve seek times? :ohmy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael_Walker Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 well, its a FAT drive, and yes, the windows defragger actually does defrag it. Mine wasnt very fragmented ( 1 file with 4 fragments) but i guess a 1 gig drive with lots of songs added and removed could get pretty fraggy over a period of time... Keep in mind ( like all disk operations) its takes CONSIDERABLY longer than a hard drive! Probably Diskeeper will do a better job Incidentally, i noticed today there is about a 5 second "writing data" delay after you stop recording. (during which time you cannot do anything) For our gigs i will just leave it running, i think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ppk3000 Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 well, its a FAT drive, and yes, the windows defragger actually does defrag it. Mine wasnt very fragmented ( 1 file with 4 fragments) but i guess a 1 gig drive with lots of songs added and removed could get pretty fraggy over a period of time... Keep in mind ( like all disk operations) its takes CONSIDERABLY longer than a hard drive! Probably Diskeeper will do a better job Incidentally, i noticed today there is about a 5 second "writing data" delay after you stop recording. (during which time you cannot do anything) For our gigs i will just leave it running, i think!sweet... FAT storage format heh... I hope the disk doesn't break if the defragging computer crashes in the middle of a defrag (just an interesting thought... :laugh:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeclaw Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 sweet... FAT storage format heh... I hope the disk doesn't break if the defragging computer crashes in the middle of a defrag (just an interesting thought... :laugh:)The disk won't. But you will get corrupted files when pulling the plug or cutting power during defrag. But that is true for all disk-types... ------------------------------------- @Michael: Thanks for the report. Btw. the 5 second thingy is typical for Minidisc. That is the time, when the TOC (Table of Contents) is written. Don't disturb the unit during that, otherwise the whole recording is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.