MDietrich
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Everything posted by MDietrich
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I´ve listened to an LP2 recording from the R900 and to another one made with the N1 via NetMD. Both versions weren´t really transparent (as in not audibly different to the original), normal music like Pop or Rock sounds quite well. But I rarely listen to something like this... I´ve listened to choir, orchestral filmmusic and organ recordings. Choir and Organ suffered quite a lot since the imaging got strange (really strange) and unsharp combined with flanging artifacts (quite audible on choir and organ alike). And I don´t think that Type-S will get rid off the flanging. Well, LP2 is quite old now... today there are far better alternatives with similar bitrates around if something like that would be needed. I mean a lot has happened during all these years and it simply is an old codec now. I wish there would be something like a higher quality option which would take longer to encode but with improved sonic results. So I´m using the old ATRAC, it´s reliable and very well sounding.
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I had a Sony TC-K 590 (not even HighEnd) and with the right Tapes it would be close to a CD. I could bite my ass for throwing all my tapes into the garbage... I even had a Sony Super Metal Master. Wonderful Cassette. I made the same error when abandoning the MiniDisc all those years ago. Can you imagine? I threw away one of those wonderful TDK Gold MDs (the one with the metal casing). But the JB940 really was a good recorder that was very well designed internally. You have one of those digital Pioneer tape decks? Are they good? It has digital in-/outputs! Off topic: BTW, I´ve just acquired a Sony MZ-N1 - lovely thing. But LP2 doesn´t sound very good... I don´t know why people seem to love it that much. I can hear loads of compression artifacts. NetMD is relatively convenient though. Well, that´s me talking... discovering things 11 years behind their time
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Of course your assumptions are correct. A digital connection probably beats an analogue connection to a receiver, especially if you plan on doing some processing inside the receiver. Like Dolby Pro Logic decoding or something else that involves its DSP. Oh, and btw... though the example of the Kenwood CD player up above does measure extremely well it doesn´t necessarily sound equally well. Measurments are an indicator for audio quality... but it all depends on how much is measured. And RMAA (many people use it) doesn´t measure everything.
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The Drive plays a minor role, even the power supply is not so important as manufacturers would like us to believe. The D/A converter is important too - but the most important parts is how the output is designed, I often call it the "D/A converters surroundings". Even a good converter will still sound bad and perform well below its intended specs if it´s used in a poorly engineered deck. From my experience with portable CD players I can safely say that Sony knew what they were doing, they managed to get the best performance out of these chips. If you´d like to know how a Kenwood DP-5090 (CD player) performs through its analogue output:
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It does, I just measured its digital output, not the analogue output you are referring to. I measured only the digital output because it´s 20 bit capable and with it I can have a look at the performance of the ATRAC chip not influenced by anything, not even the D/A converter. I never measured its analogue specs so I don´t know how it actually performs when connected via a pair of RCA cables to an amplifier. But Kenwood DID lie about their specs nonetheless: they advertised that machine as having ATRAC 4.5 - this isn´t true since it has the ATRAC 4.0 IC.
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I´m used to forums and now I forgot one of the essentials: the search function. Stupid me... but now I have found something
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Ah, I see. Do you know music that´s able to trigger errors with ATRAC 4.0 or higher? I´d be very interested... I might own one or two examples myself. BTW, the review for the R900 is online: http://marlene-d.blogspot.de/2012/06/devil-is-md-recorder-sony-mz-r-900.html It turned out to be a two-faced bit** when it comes to sound... strange.
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What´s the acid test? I´ve never heard of it... assuming something to do with castagnets?
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I have the same feeling that newer recorders are somewhat... fragile. The MZ-R 900 I own for a few days now has a marvellous finish and build quality. But it´s so small and tiny that I´m afraid to break it all the time. The tiny size has another disadvange: it will move by itself. The R30 is heavier and bulkier but doesn´t seem this fragile, it just feels more robust. Boy, the drive from the R900 is loud (normal noises but loud). And the MDs I record with it pose problems for the Kenwood DM-5090: with R900 recorded discs it jumps between titles or skips them entirely by playing the next. The R30 plays these discs without error (I cannot even hear the drive behaving strange like the one on the Kenwood at the same places). I think that the Kenwood starts to break... well it hasn´t been used for years and is constantly exposed to cigarettes. And I´ve just encountered an error with my R900: during titling some tracks it suddenly said that it´s full and cannot except more characters. I had to disconnect power and remove the battery. Now it behaves perfectly again. But even when considering its tiny size - gosh, the R900 sounds gorgeous. It´s in fact one of the best sounding portable players I´ve ever heard. And thanks for the information on the R50 - can´t hold my horses to finally look at it and touch it... I wanted to own when it was released in 1997. Now I hope I can!
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I´ve read about that. With ATRAC3+ they use something similar to HE-AAC which uses Spectral Band Replication which means that frequencies from a certain point are artificially generated by the decoding circuit. If I´m not mistaken I mean... and ATRAC-X seems to be an extension of the ATRAC3 codec, enabling it to perform scalable bitrate streaming and multichannel. But it´s all moot since they appear to have stopped development. BTW, I have seen in your signature that you own an R50. How good is that unit? I´ve read so many good things about it... does it sound better than the R30? The service manual for example clearly states that all parts used for the R50 are the same ones used in the R30. I´m asking because I might get one tomorrow or on Monday - and I can´t wait
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Ah, I understand. Thanks for the info. HiMD didn´t get rid of 24 Bit? I assumed that since they dropped 292 ATRAC. Sorry...
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I have not yet worked with Hi-MD - and I think I won´t considering that 24 Bit capability has been dropped... I also have not tried the MDLP capability of the MZ-R 900 yet. I plan to purchase a used NetMD recorder, just to find out how it works and if there´s a way of transferring the high bit files from MD to PC. I just don´t want to place the Kenwood all the time near my PC , it´s too big for that. Well, I won´t do this normally, I did it just for the article. BUt it´s nice to know that my digital amplifier (Sony STR-DB 830) will receive a 20 Bit signal (it can process up to 24/96). And I´ve also tried Sound Forge 9.0 and its ATRAC feature. But it won´t convert to 24 or 32 bit fp when converting back, I also cannot use the classic 292 kBit/s bitrate (I tried because I wanted to find out how it sounds without copying from my PC to MD and back) MD decks outputting the 20/24 bit are rare... I suspected that much since it doesn´t make much sense for a home component to put out this bit depth - many people wouldn´t know what to do with it would they be aware of it. That´s why it´s so surprising that the Kenwood can do so. Does the JB980 have an option to configure the digital output? The older ES recorders had such an option if I´m not mistaken (the MDS-JA 50 being the first). Other than that I have no idea. BTW, you are re-converting from ATRAC 292 to ATRAC3+? I wouldn´t do that if I were you. I would go the way you used to before - imagine, you are converting from one lossy format to another. I suspect there is a decoding step inbetween so you´ll loose quality. It´s similar to when people are converting from mp3 to mp3 - only with different bitrates. Or did I miss something? And yes, mp3 just like every other codec (AAC or OGG) is 32 bit floating point. Sound Forge only decodes it to 16 Bit (similar to iZotope RX or WaveLab and countless other software or hardware) but Illustrates' converter dBPowerAmp has an option to put out the pure floating point data (with mp3, AAC and OGG). It´s ironic but one could easily convert to mp3 from SACD or DVD audio and actually keep the resolution! Funny thought, isn´t it? I´m so glad I re-discovered this little hobby... the MD was great, wasn´t it?
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My first post here... hope it´s in the correct forum. If not feel free to move it around. I have been reading here a lot lately, my fascination with MD seems to have returned after abandoning it in 2001 for PC based audio. For years after first reading about it I have been curious about Wide Bit Stream and equally curious if my MZ-R 30 would be able to record in 20 Bits. Turns out it can - only from the digital input of course. I´ve written an article about this, complete with measurments and stuff: http://marlene-d.blo...c-wide-bit.html I´d like to have some input as well as experiences someone else has made with other ATRAC versions like 4.5 Type-R. The MZ-R 900 will be featured in the next article, but I can already tell you that it´s equally Wide Bit Stream capable. Wide Bit Stream - is that even interesting today, with Hi-MD and all??