bluecrab
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Posts posted by bluecrab
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On 4/18/2023 at 3:34 PM, kgallen said:
It looks SO simple and easy in the photos, making me feel like I might not botch it. (My repair history with MD decks is fraught.) Let me consider it just a bit. Many thanks!
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14 hours ago, kgallen said:
Hey, watcha sayin’ ????? 😡🤣
I thought that having the figurative screw loose was all but required for being here, but my E10 doesn't see the humor. 😉
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21 hours ago, kgallen said:
There are the following screws in assembly order (looking from front where required):
2 domed screws that hold the switch PCB to the front panel metalwork ....
This was from memory so I hope I got them all!
Thanks. I will check. Can't have extra screws loose! 🙂
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On 4/15/2023 at 6:17 AM, kgallen said:
I tried to take some better photos of the markings on top of the switch for future reference. There are no markings on the sides of my switch but are seen on some examples on the internet.
Note: The Sony part number is stamped in this example. I don’t believe it’s a custom part though. We’ll see when the ones I’ve ordered come in and I can compare.
That's what I saw when I opened up the E10 yesterday. I also removed the front panel. I had two mishaps. One was that the front panel, once detached, was reluctant to go back into its original position; that is, wasn't flush. A little fiddling with it took care of the brief problem. There was a bit of a front panel issue—right around the loading slot—when I bought the deck, but the seller fixed it on the spot. The second issue was...well, after I put the lid back on, 4 screws remained. I removed the lid again, but could see no obvious places for the screws. Same for the exterior. However, save the power button, the deck's functionality is all good. In fact, the power button is now slightly better-positioned than it was, although it still doesn't work. It feels like it does have a spring, though. My evaluation of all this is that the minidisc gods want me to leave well-enough alone, and just continue to use the external switch. (I do have a friend who could easily make the repair, but that would mean either a 3.5 hour drive or shipping.) Much thanks for all your advice and willingness to help!
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3 hours ago, kgallen said:
@bluecrab I've just grabbed a few of those switches from that UK seller. When they arrive, if they look identical to the one in my machine, I'm quite happy to post one over to you if you fancy the repair job. Even if you don't, with the part you should be able to find someone who can do the repair for you, it's not a big job to extract the front panel from the machine and get access to the switch PCB - because that's what I did to take my photos above.
If you source locally, try and make sure it's a genuine Alps part. I found some suppliers in China but on closer inspection it was an unbranded part. As this is a switch on the mains supply, I wouldn't advise a "knock-off" part as you don't know the quality of the construction. The E10 doesn't have an earth connection (it's "double insulated"), so you don't want a poor quality switch here as it's in a metal body and screwed to a metal chassis in the machine...
If nothing else, I could just send you the spring... 🙂
More than kind of you, Kevin. I will take a look inside the unit. The photos help!
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10 hours ago, kgallen said:
It’s just a standard on/off slide switch and if I remember correctly it’s mounted directly behind the front panel, not actuated by a push-bar.
So the actually ‘mechanism’ is part of the switch which will have a latching cam arrangement and a spring to put tension in the operation. Not unlike a click on/off biro type pen.
From your description of the symptoms it sounds like the spring is missing, but as it will be mounted around the actuator stem I can’t see how it would ‘just go missing’.
Thanks! Based on your input, the look & feel, and the E10's SM, I think there is a reasonable chance that it's the spring. There could have been some kind of mishap when the deck was repaired (not by me). IIRC, that's when the issue began. Unfortunately, the repairer is not local, and I don't want to ship the unit back and forth again for this issue. It's apparently stuck in the "On" position, as supplying power to the deck turns in on immediately. I don't recall seeing a spring or anything else where it shouldn't be, but the least I can do is open it up and look again.
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On 4/12/2023 at 4:04 PM, kgallen said:
Yea it’s just like a standard click-click on/off switch rather than a ‘soft touch’ one like on pretty much all Sony consumer decks.
So when ‘on’ the button stays in.
So what keeps the button IN and what releases it?
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10 hours ago, BearBoy said:
I don't have one but @kgallen should be able to confirm how the button is supposed to behave as I think he has about 20 of the things 😉
All my decks are consumer models and they don't "clunk" on and off.
Good point. Right underneath my E10 is an HHB BurnIT CD-R, which does have the clunky on/off. As much as I'd like the E10's power button to work, the deck is one of the two that remain (the other being an MXD-400), and I am wary of messing much with it.
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On 4/11/2023 at 8:40 AM, BearBoy said:
What seems to be the problem with the switch, @bluecrab? Do you think it's mechanical or electrical?
Not sure, because I cannot recall if, when it was working, whether the power button stayed depressed when pushed. (It does not do so now.) Visually I did not see anything amiss inside. I would lean towards "mechanical." I suppose it could be something as simple as a spring.
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19 hours ago, kgallen said:
And a VU meter in for the bargain! 😆
I'll bet you could fix that faulty power switch in 5 minutes!
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13 hours ago, M1JWR said:
been using a 930 as a dac for yonks on a marantz cd63ki, via rca coaxial, improves the sound quite a lot
Oh yes, of course, I have used other MD decks as DACs...JB940, JA20ES, JA333ES...more. Interesting to know that about the 63KI. I'm not at all familiar with its SM5872BS DAC, other than the info on its Data Sheet. I do know the 930's CXD8735N, from having owned that deck. Yes, it is justly renowned as sounding good. I have in fact used the E10 as a DAC...not bad at all, but not as good as the 930. Just fine doing its DDC thing, though!
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Not having said anything for some time, I just wanted to note that my Sony MDS-E10 is making a fine DDC (digital-to-digital converter). I had not intended this use. CDP (via optical) > E10 (via coax) > standalone DAC (via RCA) > powered speakers. Simply connecting the CDP to the E10 was physically easier for me, and resulted in less cable clutter behind the DAC. I do wish the on/off button on the E10 worked, but it does not. The deck is connected to a rocker switch, and powered on/off that way.
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It's a couple of months later (and more) since I ran the the E10 direct to my my Kanto TUK powereds. Since then, I have added a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 100 to the mix. It has a Wolfson WM8742 chip for its DAC, and I have the E10 connected to it via coax. For me, at least, the DM100 exceeds both the E10's AK4524 and the TUK's own DSP in how it sounds. Yes, MD decks have long been renowned for their DACs, but this is a new level of detail I'm hearing. (I'm allowing for the TUK's AMT tweeters.)
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17 hours ago, BearBoy said:
The reverse of how I suspect most MiniDisc decks/CD players were generally connected 😉
I don't have much experience with standalone CD recorders but I've always assumed it was far easier to perform edits etc on a MiniDisc?
I have used them both ways, CD > MD & MD > CD, the latter to enable ripping the result into iTunes. This was a project that took about two years. I even have a folder in iTunes devoted to that effort: "MD/CD Heaven." The editing abilities of minidisc completely surpass those of CD, where there isn't much you can do post-recording.
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"...what CD players people have paired up with their MiniDisc decks."
Just a few days ago, I used my MDS-E10 to edit a minidisc (needed some dividing for track marks), and then copied the MD to CD-RW via coax to my working-when-it-feels-like-it Aiwa XC-RW700 standalone recorder. Ultimate destination was iTunes, per spousal request. I'd created the original MD from cassettes and vinyl—contra dance and barn dance tunes from US & UK. The E10 is also connected to a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 100, which brings out its finest qualities.
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17 hours ago, kgallen said:
A while back I did a trawl of the Service Manuals for this sort of data.
Uploaded here: https://www.minidisc.wiki/_media/resources/sony_md_part_data.pdf
Nice, thanks. (Saved.) I am more than a little surprised to see so many units share the AK4524. And I was thus inspired to check what DAC my MXD-D400 has—seems to be AK4584VQ.
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On 2/4/2014 at 4:35 PM, sfbp said:
The mds-e10 at least (the 11 and 12 are probably similar) seems also to have abandoned the arrangement with separate D->A in favour of the 4524 hooked directly to the CXD2662.
Is this coincidence? Or is it possible Sony simply abandoned that design after realising that the combination of the 2662 and 4524 were simply *good enough*??? The 2662 is what's in the MDS-JB940, the MDS-E1x, CMT-PX3, MDS-PC3 and (I think!) all decks before the 2664 (Type-S) but which included MDLP. Speaking as a layman in these matters, it occurs to me to wonder if the extra chip actually was a negative in terms of sound quality. As a user of optical output, I've already stated that I don't care much about the analogue side of these decks.
The design is the same in every case, a couple of Op amps between the output of the 4524 and the actual analogue (RCA) connector.
The major thing that the E1x had (over the others) is lack of SCMS protection. SIRCS (M-Crew type stuff over PS/2 connector) was another plus. Apart from these two features, there is probably nothing functionally added (or quality-wise) in the Pro units. Maybe this tells you something about Sony's thinking on the current pulse issue.
I know that current pulse is supposed to be better, but maybe they figured out that the other benefits outweighed doing it the old way. The biggest one known to me is that you get MDLP with the 2662 and up. I couldn't live without LP2.
Stephen
EIGHT+ years later and I find in this thread (courtesy of SFBP) confirmation of what I want to know: the DAC in the E10 is the AK4524 (also in the SM). Today I began using the E10 as both a player and a DAC. Its RCAs are going into a pair of Kanto TUK powered speakers. I have tried optical and USB (from Macbook Pro) direct to the TUKs, but I think the E10's DAC to its RCAs is the best-sounding of the three connections. I was listening to an MD played this way and was absolutely, positively floored to find that the source disc was LP2! I hadn't thought to even consider that until I saw the label on the disc. Playing from iTunes also sounds great through the E10.
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On 3/15/2022 at 8:41 AM, kgallen said:
Is there a site with a CDP machine listing a bit like we have for MDS machines on minidisc.org?
From digging around I’m getting the impression the CDP numbering is a bit like the MDS numbering. For example I see a CDP-XE700 but it’s an older model, much like the MDS-JE700. Similarly I see a CDP-XB930 that looks a similar build to our MDS-JB930. I have the CDP-XE530 which pairs nicely with my MDS-JE530. Similarly CDP-D12 with MDS-E12.
So I’m thinking, hmmm… there looks to be some parity here…
Not quite the same, but interesting and helpful: https://www.dutchaudioclassics.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/
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16 hours ago, BearBoy said:
The ultimate streamlined "pairing" in one box 🙂
Very good, yes, and it even has Type S, and can play MP3 CDs. Copies to LP @4x. Dual-line display for CD and MD. A couple of "could be betters": Lacks monitor function; that is, requires an MD inserted to "monitor." Playback SQ is good, but there are better decks for playback. Of course, this can be resolved by using its optical out. At one time, I had two of these and two MXD-D40s.
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I have lost track—not that I was keeping a record—of all the CDPs I had paired with MD decks. All of the CDPs had optical and/or coax out, and that's what I used. The pairing I fancied the most was probably CDP-XA20ES > MDS-JA20ES. Now...well, I have my MXD-D400 if I need to copy from CD to MD.
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9 hours ago, BearBoy said:
Good to see you back @bluecrab 🙂
Thanks, and same to you. One thing though...seems that what Firefox actually does is add a security exception. Oh well, I have nothing to hide here.
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Working normally on Firefox 96.0.2. No security warnings at this time. [Long exhale.]
Although how weird is this?:
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Well, I guess it's always OK to get a fresh start.
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(And it turns out that FF is enabling HTTPS per my Prefs; otherwise, I would get a warning.)
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7 hours ago, kgallen said:
Were you using monitor mode? I'm kinda surprised that the Copy Bit setting doesn't affect that, although I guess in reality I'm not that surprised as I guess they wouldn't want to make SCMS defeat too easy. I suspect even having this function on these decks was somewhat a compromise from the RIAA...
I suspect actual recording will be the same behaviour as monitor mode. But I'm just as likely wrong...!
Monitor mode, yes. My guess is that as this is a kind of pass-through, the signal remains unchanged. Perhaps a schematic would depict the path. As to during actual recording—that is, output via opt/coax while a disc is inserted, not monitoring without one—not sure I tried that. I will note that my HHB BurnIT CDR exhibits that same behavior with monitoring.
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On 9/5/2021 at 5:34 AM, kgallen said:
To reiterate here what I found and documented on the SCMS thread:
"non-PRO" E10/E12 don't care about SCMS on the input SPDIF/TOSLINK. However they have no way to configure the copy bits on the recording, so the tracks have the same copy bits as the source, i.e. if the incoming signal is Copy Prohibit, then the recorded track is Copy Prohibit too. Note: I don't know what comes out on the output TOSLINK/SPDIF - I suspect the same as the source. The "PRO" versions of these decks allow you to set the recorded copy bits, e.g. the source has Copy Prohibit but you could make the recording Copy Permit or Copy PreRecorded. Again, I don't know what comes out on the output TOSLINK/SPDIF, could be as source or as recorded. That would be an experiment for another day!
I have attempted to copy a Copy Prohibit MD from the E10, via optical out. Also tried by monitoring an protected digital incoming and passing through. Neither worked, even when the Copy Bit is set to Permit. But I wonder what the output signal would look like during actual copy-bit-permit recording. It's more or less academic to me at this point, but interesting.
I feel like the non-pro E10/12's ignoring the copy bit setting but keeping it intact is a bit nasty, although helpful, I suppose, in many cases. I seem to recall having read that Sony's so-called semi-pro PCM-R300 DAT deck had that same "feature."
MDS-E10 as DDC
in Technical, Tips, and Tricks
Posted
Ah. Sad to say, that pretty much eliminates a DIY effort by me, as I am not a solderer. Thanks for the info!