1kyle

I agree in the future for all sorts of reasons Solid state devices will probably take over --but only if they are REMOVABLE and relatively cheap. For a portable recording format where you really don't know how long you are going to have to record or how many times you might have to do a session you really do need to have some type of removable format (especially if you are recording at a high bit rate). For this reason MD will STILL be around for a few years yet. You could argue till the cows come home as to whether a portable HD device is good, bad or indifferent. For a lot of people who just want to play portable music (and a lot of it) then a HD player may suffice. As far as quality goes pretty well any player you can get these days is capable of yielding passable quality --But only AND ONLY IF the music has been recorded from a decent source in the first place and apart from DRM issues I don't consider ANY online downloadable music store as providing anything even remotely as good quality as "an old fashioned CD" provided of course the CD was decently mastered in the studio in the first place - not always true these days as there is also some terrible junk around. Most MP3's sound pretty horrible -- not because of the mp3 format per se but usually people either start with a pretty compressed shitty source or the encoding algorithm used is not good or the bit rate is far too low. There's no reason for a HD player to sound inferior to the MD device --although I'd expect the new RH1 to be at the top of the heap as it's more geared to the top end of the market where people are usually a bit more choosy. So the answer to the original posters question is "Yes a HD player *can* have as good quality sound as an MD but whether you will be able to get that sound quality depends on your music source. Cheers -K

Even so a HD player WILL fail out in the field. It's still a relatively fragile device. If your MD device fails however you can just pop your MD into another unit. No re-recording etc etc. I've never in over 10 years ever had an actual Minidisc itself fail they are almost indestructable but if it did you've only lost one disk. I think it comes down to what you prefer. For the maximum flexibility you really can't beat a MD. Slightly off topic if you get downloaded music (I avoid it like the plague due to ussually poor quality high compression and DRM issues) your player might have all sorts of problems on whether it can actually handle the format. I see in France there's a court case pending forcing Apple to open up it's music store so other devices can play. This could be an interesting twist to the whole DRM crud. A great thing with MD as well is that you can share the stuff with colleagues. Just give them a minidisc to play on their gear. With your HD device you've got to lend them the whole device or find some way of transferring the file which may or may not (usually for downloaded purchased music) be possible. Cheers -K

I'm actually updating a SUSE 10 system at the moment. After I've done that I'll have a go at seeing what I can upload from a Minidisc. SUSE recognizes the MD device as an external device (it thinks it's a disk) so if I can find the files I might be able to upload manually. I think Downloading from Computer to MD probably won't be possible as I'm sure there's some sort of stuff that has to be done to write the TOC (Table of contents) on the MD. I'll start with a WAV file. If that works and if an RH10 plays MP3's natively I'll see if I can upload an MP3 file to the computer from a MD. I don't use MP3's but I can easily make one using the LAME encoder. I'll have a go at this later this weekend and post results. You certainly won't be able to use SS however. Since the new RH1 (when available) will allow uploading of SP there might be some sort of "Hackable possibilties" there but we'll have to wait until we can actually get hold of an RH1. Cheers -K

Since some support for Mac exists (RH1) you *might* be able to get the PCM (WAV) to play but I think even though there's no DRM crud some sort of encryption exists otherwise Drag 'n Drop should work. Forget about trying ATRAC or MP3 on Linux. If you want to play music on a computer anyway then why not just store the wretched stuff on a Hard Disk as they are incredibly cheap these days. Even a 300GB disk can be had for around 150 USD and if you don't want to spend that much you can get some 80GB hard disks (external) for "peanuts". I really can't see the point of PLAYING a MD player through a computer. If you want to edit files etc then upload. Cheers -K

Great news for anybody going to Hong Kong, Shanghai or Beijing later this year. The Black RH1 WILL definitely be available in Hong Kong and hence also in those other 2 great chinese cities. I suspect the Black RH1's will be independently sourced from Japan but there does seem to be considerable interest in this unit in Hong Kong (and not only from the "Expatriate" UK community working out there). For people in the UK wanting a Black RH1 sourcing it from Hong Kong will probably be easier (and cheaper) since this type of trade in the UK is quite common (and a lot easier for individuals than buying from Japan). Nearer the time I'll try and post a couple of links about getting it from Hong Kong. Cheers -K

Remember that all HD players have 2 severe limitations. 1) Hard Disks consume a lot more power than solid state or MD devices so play back time will either be considerably less or you'll have to have bigger, bulkier (and uglier) battery packs. 2) Hard Disks are really quite fragile pieces of kit and anybody whos'e ever used a computer knows only too well that they DO fail at times and a computer disk won't be subjected to knocks and bangs like a portable player will above all if you use this type of gear while jogging etc. I don't think sound wise there will be much if anything in it provided you can get the music on to your HD player at a decent bit rate but of course if the disk gets broken then the sound quality will be "Nil". Another possible drawback is you are totally dependent on using computers to get music in to your player. When you buy a new one you'll have to copy the library again etc etc. For me that's just too much of a hassle --say I'm recording (timed) from satellite radio I can just pop a MD into my unit, go away and do something else and when I come back it's all done. You've got virtually unlimited storage. A 40 GB HD player can seem like a HUGE amount but once you start recording at anything like a decent bit rate you'll be surprised how quickly a HD fills up. OK the original post was about Sound quality but I do think before you buy any piece of gear you should also be aware of the pros and cons of it. Cheers -K

I'd definitely buy a HI-MD deck (must have optical out like jb980). A Car unit was at one time on my list of priorities however I've got a unit that plays MDLP (Kenwood) and if I want Hi-MD I use the "adapter cable" which plugs into a Hi-MD unit sitting in the glove compartment. A Hi-MD disk recorded at 256 / 352 holds around 7 hours of music which is MORE than enough for a typical drive (Even on the UK's notorious M25 which is the Worlds Biggest Car Park at around 90 miles long with 4 hours free parking on it every day). For people with Kenwood radios I did post on this forum where to get the special cable Here's a link to where you can get the cable http://www.justkenwood.co.uk/stock01/auxin.asp So Sony go for a Hi-MD deck. A radio is not so important any more BUT DO HAVE AUX IN on the front panel then people can plug in whatever players they like. A much better solution than the more expensive "Ipod Connection" systems. Such a simple thing to do and really wanted by a lot of people but it seems only the real cheap and nasty radios have this feature --amazing isn't it. As for CD's I really can't be bothered carrying around CD's and who wants those stupid changes in the boot of your car. For playing in a car CD's are really "Dinosaur Technology" in spite of the fact nearly every car radio these days has a CD head. In a car you don't need studio quality sound. Even LP2 can sound quite decent in a car (provided the original recording was done properly and not transcoded from a lossy MP3 etc). Cheers -K

Why is it that people only think that a COMPUTER has to do this stuff. There's nothing wrong with real time if you have to use it. Whilst the real time recording is running you can be out in the garden, out at a Pub / sports venue etc etc. I know it might sound strange to a younger generation but there IS life outside computers and Mobile Phones. All these things are tools and undoubtedly very good tools but it's not the only way even if you HAVE a computer. Real time optical out to Optical In will be fine --although titling tracks afterwards is a chore (that's where SS and a computer shines). If you are Listening to a recording on high end gear (most computers are pretty dreadful for high quality music listening --they can play DVD's passably and some games have acceptable sound but for high quality music forget computers) then here if you want to make a copy real time is fine. (Some decks will also do 2X DIGITAL CD===>MD copying as well). As for quality there won't be any significant difference in either method provided the bit rate isn't dropped too low for example copying SP @ 292 to LP2 @ 132 kbs. Cheers -K

Have a few friends in "The Trade". My pre-order is from "Gultronics" in London's Tottenham Court Road --almost as good as parts of Hong Kong for electronics and other gizmos (Not as cheap however). Unlike a lot of other places in the UK "haggling the price" on this street is The Norm --more like a middle eastern kasbah than a london shopping street. Cheers -K

I give some photography courses as well so it's very useful to have recordings of students questions etc so I can research and answer stuff later. Running your own business means you get VAT back and the cost of the gear can be deducted from taxes so it won't be too expensive for me, Also on a shoot it's very handy to take "Vocal notes" such as any probs with the gig, gear or other comments. I do quite a bit of recording also out in the field on PJ assignments so a portable recorder is also useful here as well. The RH1 combines the best of the NH1 with the RH10. I like the black one even if I have to source it from Japan. I'll be in Hong Kong later so I'm sure I'll be able to source a black one even if my "pre-order" can't find one. I'm in for 1 silver and 1 black one. The RH10 to me seems better suited to portable listening rather than a real fully featured recording device and I'll use it for that purpose now wheras the R1 seems designed as a RECORDER from the outset.. I love the recording levels on the side (from the pics). The remote looks very similar to that with the old RZ90. Cheers -K

Hi everybody I just LOVE the new RH1 -- I've pre-ordered 2 of these (Greedy G*T* that I am). Should get them in my grubby mits by Early May. The guy who took my order said he'd NEVER known such a demand for MD gear so perhaps SONY have done something right for once. I suspect once these trickle on to the market there will be a real shortage of them.. Not too worried about the battery and no external battery -- I've got enough of these batteries from older models. Proper LINE OUT too that's GREAT. I'm in 7th heaven just now with the final REAL announcement of this unit. It's going to be a REAL WINNER for sure. Cheers -K

You need to pull off the boot image with a program like ISOBUSTER or whatever. For Windows the Boot bit is labelled something like Microsoft.img (or .ima). Extract this to a file and in NERO use that as the boot image. Similar for Linux -- just pull off the boot loader. When I've got time I'll try and post a boot image on the web. Cheers -K

If your computer boots from a USB device (you might need to go into the BIOS options and set USB Boot option) you can get a great Linux rescue system including a Disk Partitioner and a Disk Partion Imager by following instructions here. http://www.sysresccd.org/Howto_install-usb-stick It works on my system whether or not it works on yours will depend on how the USB support is implemented in the BIOS. Note that here you are using the MD purely in Data mode. Just use the Native USB drivers. You don't want the SS one's. Booting is not particularly fast but it DOES work. Now I'm trying to get a Bootable Windows rescue system based on Bart's PE. http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ Have fun Cheers -K

Slightly off topic I agree however these days most "Slim" format DVD drives will fit into most notebooks. Theres a common connector at the end as well. This works for pretty well ALL brands of laptops. http://www.bixnet.com/lapexcddriv.html Don't worry about the various makes of drive etc. Just look at some of the pictures to show how it's done. I can guarantee ANYBODY can do it provided they know how to use a screwdriver. These sort of jobs are much easier than you think. Don't confuse the "Slimline" DVD hardware with standard enclosures. The slimline one's are made for laptops specifically (although if you supply a decent housing for them there's no reason why you can't use them in a desktop computer either). An excellent advantage of DVD-RAM for video recording is that you can actually WATCH one part of the disk while RECORD to another AT THE SAME TIME. This can't be done with DVD- or DVD + formats. Cheers -K

N10 must be pretty small. AFAIK its certainly the thinnest. Disadvantage is that it has an internal battery (easy to change but you do actually have to partially disassemble the unit (remove the jog dial but it's easy). It has an external battery case as well if you need more battery life. Cheers -K

Actually the newer DVD-RAM devices will work at 3X and I think some will work at 5X. I quite like the double sided ones at 9.4GB as well. Incidentally the very excellent Panasonic UJ845 (marketed as Matshita I think) will work in most laptops. It supports both DVD-RAM and Dual Layer DVD's as well as all the other CD / DVD formats. Excellent drive if you want DVD-RAM in a laptop. This drive will also write conventional DVD media at 8X (If you can find the media). It's REALLY EASY actually changing a DVD / CD drive in most laptops even the most ham fisted of you can do it. I had a lot of trouble with a really crappy Pioneer drive in a Sony VAIO. I changed it for the Panasonic (Matshita) and now I can also enjoy watching DVD's recorded on a DVD-RAM panasonic DVD recorder on my laptop. WinDVD works with DVD-RAM as well as standard DVD's. PowerDVD doesn't just in case you want to try this too. I archive to DVD-RAM as well. Don't trust anything else. Cheers -K

If you play an MD the optical OUT from a deck is a DIGITAL copy which is an EXACT (AUDIO) copy of the source. (OK I now text / tags are not usually copied but the SOUND is an exact digital copy). I'm not sure what happens when using a computer sound card with optical in / out. There's some computer people on this board who are much better qualified than me to answer this. However from a deck there's NO loss or extra conversions when using the Optical OUT / IN. That's why SONY etc go paranoid with DRM, SCMS etc since copying this way doesn't introduce generational loss. Computers AFAIK are a different m,atter however. Cheers -K

Hi there I wasn't using the computer's gear for testing. I rarely listen using a computer. I can definitely say also when starting with WAV files in the library transferring to the MD device @ 352 is QUICKER than transferring 352kbs files in the library to 352 kbs files in the device. So it would appear the software IS doing something but what I haven't a clue. If there really WASN'T any extra processing the file should be transferred at around the device write speed (USB 1.1). There is some extra encryption (data encryption not transcoding) but the processing required for that is minimal and is part of the MD system and would be the same whether we are starting from our uncompressed WAV file or the ATRAC3 352 kbs compressed file. As Hard disks are cheap enough now it makes sense to only store music in LOSSLESS formats. You can store it in a compressed format provided the compression is LOSSLESS like FLAC or whatever. Converting FLAC (Lossless) to WAV (Lossless) should restore the original WAV file to be 100% a clone of the original. Cheers -K

Just play the disk on a unit with OPTICAL OUT such as JB980 connected to OPTICAL IN on a portable unit. OK It's real time. Seems easy enough to me (or have I missed something). If you've got studio equipment you'll surely have at least one piece of equipment with an optical out, whilst all MD devices I've ever seen have an Optical IN. If the SCMS won't let you do this (most studio equipment AFAIK bypasses or ignores SCMS) then the optical out will still play into a computer with a decent soundcard which has an optical IN and Optical OUT. So connect the decks optical OUT to the Optical IN on the computer, set the computer to either PLAY or RECORD depending on what software you've got and plug the optical OUT of the sound card to the Optical IN on a MD portable recorder. (For recording in SP mode directly the NH1 (Hi-MD) and all earlier models will work. The RH10 will only record using SS as "Fake SP"). For Editing track names afterwards just use SS in Cut and Paste mode. You can edit track and disk names with SS even on old SP recorded discs and you can even add Group information if you want. Cheers -K

DVD-RAM is certainly (currently) the media with the best longevity prospects. The discs in caddies are even better since this adds another level of protection in their handling. (DVD-RAM comes in either "Caddies like a large casette or plain discs like "normal" DVD's). Read write cycles are more than 200,000 compared with "bog standard DVD-RW or DVD+RW. You can do enough tests on devices to "simulate" longevity reasonably accurately. You don't always have to be around for that long to test the physics. The base nuclear fusion physics of the Sun for example is well understood. We know that the the sun will end its life in around 4 billion years from now as its Hydrogen core becomes exahusted and we even know how it will end (Red Giant etc). We don't actually have to be there in 4 billion years to prove it (even if it were possible). Actually in practice CD-RW seems to have the biggest "compatability" problems. Often a CD-RW burned on one computer won't read properly on another, and it's likely to die the death relatively quickly since the storage area (around 600MB) is too small these days and for decent Read Write mode where you can use a CD-RW like a very large floppy disk (instead of using a CD-RW as a standard CD) you have to use "Packet writing" software like Nero inCd which is a real pain as anybody whose used "packet writing software" on a computer knows onlyt too well.

I've done this enough times now to definitely say that SS (even 3.4) codes AGAIN any compressed codec going to your MD device so you lose more fidelity than if you start with a WAV file. What I mean here is that if say you rip a CD's to ATRAC+ @352 and then transfer this to your MD vis SS it sounds not as good than if you rip to WAV first and then transfer to MD via SS at 352 kbs. Now to me there SHOULDN'T in theory be any extra encoding if going from 352 in the library to 352 on the MD disk but I've done this enough times to say there definitely seems to be a difference in the sound (and I can tell just with headphones). I've also tested whether using an older 74 / 80 MD in place of a 1GB disc is possibly the culprit of this but the discs don't make any difference as far as I can tell. So although I can't say whether there is an extra encoding step or not when starting with a compressed file it definitely sounds discernably better using a WAV file and transferring that to the MD unit at the compression rate you want. I'd suggest that if you haven't tried starting with a decent uncompressed WAV file from a good quality recorded CD you try it and you'll probably be amazed at the 352 kbs quality. Intuitively one would have thought that a 352 kbs file on the computer being transferred to a 352 kbs file on the MD wouldn't need any more transcoding but I'm obviously wrong. Unless you are starting with a WAV file on your computer this could be a reason why many of you can't tell the difference between Hi-SP at 256 done with Simple Burner and 352 kbs from a 352 kbs file in your library. This really surprised me but I've done the test enough times on all sorts of music and with both standard 74 / 80 discs and 1GB discs, I've even used different recorders NH1 and RH10 - same result. (If trying this do start with an original uncompressed WAV file, don't convert a Lossy compressed file to WAV first as you'll still get "Double" or multiple Transcoding effects). Cheers -K

It's great that SS 3.4 allows more bit rates but I can't really see the point of the 320 Atrac3+ codec. 256 kbs seems fine for most people whilst the 352 rate is there for those who want "better" and it takes GOOD ears and excellent listening equipment to tell much difference between 256 and 352. (Always assuming the original source is good and the ATRAC cidec has been coded from uncompressed WAV (avoiding extra errors / artifacts etc introduced by extra coding steps). The 320 doesn't IMO serve any useful purpose unless it was added just because some MP3 encodings can have a 320 kbs bit rate. The amount of disk space saved at 320 vs 352 is so small also as to be a total non issue. 256 will save you much more if you are satisfied with the quality. Direct recording at 352 on the MD recorder might have been a MUCH better idea (sufficiently good for 99.99% of applications and gives a decent recording length --around 5.5 hours on a 1GB disc. Quality (assuming your technique is good and you are not doing "bootlegs") is more than adequate for Demo's etc. and you can even burn to CD without too much loss of fidelity. (Don't re-rip that CD again and copy to MD again. Here you WILL get some generational loss). Anybody actually using ATRAC3+ @ 320 instead of either 256 or 352 and if so why. Just curious. Cheers -K

If you buy packs of 10 or more http://www.discountdiscs.co.uk/Merchant2/m...gory_Code=blank Sony NEIGE one's at about 1EUR each GBP 7.99 pack of 10. Here's another decent source for UK stuff have also the SONY blue 1GB discs in stock (GBP 4.19) http://www.digital-e-uk.com/d-e/products.pl Cheers -K

As The Low Volta says there are possibly other better alternatives if you just want a play back only device. For Future recording eventually I know I'll switch over to a solid state format but only when solid state media becomes as cheap as MD's and above all are REMOVABLE. After recording I like to keep the discs as archive and there's no reason why I shouldn't play these on decent equipment WITHOUT LUGGING A COMPUTER AROUND. Hard disk devices will not IMO make it as the preferred portable recording medium for reasons I've posted earlier in this thread. Burning CD's for archiving recordings is not really an option either. There's discussion all over the web about longevity of these devices (CD-R's and CD-RW's. I'm not talking about commercial CD's here). Also for home listening I prefer the smaller form factor of MD's (would be even better with solid state cards). 600 - 1000 CD's can take up an inordinate amount of space. 100 - 150 Hi-MD's or even 800 standard MD's can be stored very nicely. Currently for most non top end gear which costs 1000 USD and above there really ISN'T any alternative to the MD for portable recording. A device which concentrates on this rather than playback will survive for a good few years yet and will effectively be a New Generation. As to the "Low recording time" of 1Gb discs (90 Min in PCM mode) I can't really see that as a problem. Most groups don't play 90 mins without a break or a puse to tune up instruments so you've got ample time to pop in another disc. Back in DAT days (much more expensive as well) we typically used 60 Min tapes and the batteries wouldn't last much longer than that either. For those using "Cassettes" a 90 min tape also was probably as much as you used although if you were forced to use these for recordings then a 60 min tape was probably better. If MD is marketed as a RECORDING device it will as I've said survive for a good while yet. Forget about MP3 and other spurious playback formats. If people want MP3 then you can code this AFTER the recording session for people to use on their Ipods etc.

Ok let's try an "attack" this problem the Engineering way. 1) When you play a MD in your deck unit (JBxx) does the optical out cable have a little reddish / ruby coloured light showing at the end of the optical cable (the end you are going to plug in to your computer). If YES then the optical out appears to be working. If No then go no further the optical out isn't working. This is not very likely but could be a possibility. OK next test. 2) plug the optical out of the deck into the optical in of one of your portable units. Play a MD and see if it records to the portable unit. If it doesn't then you've got DRM or SCMS issues. Some units won't allow more than one Digital copy. As you are recording your own gig this isn't likely but could be a problem. If recording works then the MD end is fine so now loook at the computer. 3) Do you have any RECORDING software on the computer. You should have got some with your sound card, otherwise programs like NERO or HAUPPAGE WINTV usually have recording software (or you can get Total Recorder. Do a Google search for info on Total Recorder). 4) Now see if the recording software works. Hook up any device into the ANALOG input first and just record anything. The easiest is just to plug the phone output of a MD recorder into the Line In on your sound card. Record sya 5 mins and then try and play it. Choose WAV to start with as this won't introduce added complications like transcoding etc. If this doesn't work then you've either got a duff sound card or bad software. Software can easily be eliminated by trying another package / program. 5) If all the above work now plug your optical cable into the OPT input on your sound card and start your recording software. Ensure your MD is PLAYING of course. If this doesn't work then your sound card unfortunaterly is no good (assuming all the other tests described above work properly). On playback in any case your computer sound card if it has an optical out should also display a reddish / ruby coloured light if it's working properly. These lights will be displayed both on the Optical IN and Optical out connections. If the Optical Out doesn't show a light then the card is NOT WORKING properly. You've either got a hardware fault (exchange the card) or you'll need to update the driver. (I've assumed you just haven't plugged the optical out of the MD recorder into the Optical In on the computer and hope it works. You DO have to use RECORDING SOFTWARE. Sorry if you already know this but I've actually met some people who had no idea you actually had to set the computer to RECORD.) Cheers -K