Tips for recording LOUD bands (SSs --> MZ-NH1)

[emptyzero]

Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L --> PA-6LC2 --> Sony MZ-NH1 Hi-MD

I taped the blood brothers in minneapolis monday at 25 out of 30 with the 85 cycle bass roll off on and the loud setting on the nh1. there is distortion present, not enough to ruin it...actually pretty proud for it being the 1st time out with this rig but more than I would like. I know a lot of times it depends on the band/venue but in general does anyone have a number range (i.e. 17-20) for really loud bands? going to tape the deftones and dredg monday and I want to stand in front of a stack without getting a lot of distortion. Any tips are greatly appreciated. Thank you. the volume level meter is pretty lame but as a unit the nh1 is sweet.

[aeriyn]

the "loud music" setting for the NH1 is Automatic Gain Control, which could be affecting the sound quality of your recording.

try doing this: leave AGC off, use the rolloff at the same setting and put the volume of the recorder at 16/30.

you're using a battery box/rolloff thingus, right? I don't have any experience with these devices, so I don't know if microphone sensitivity would have any bearing on these... probably not since you're connected to the unit via line-in... right?

*is a noob recordist*

[dex Otaku]

The mic sensitivity setting indeed has no effect if you're recording through the line-in.

No, there isn't a general rule about what level setting to use - since the kind of mic, how far you stand from the subject you're recording, what way you face the microphone, room acoustics, etc. all influence the level of what's getting to the recorder.

There are general guidelines about setting the levels according to how the meters read, though.

If you can actually see your recording meter when making your recording - using manual levels, make sure your peaks go no higher than halfway up the meter. This leaves enough headroom that a sound 4x louder than your average peaks can still be recorded without clipping.

Do -NOT- record with the meters peaking at the very top. You're using a piece of equipment with a huge dynamic range, so -use- that dynamic range: if you know that you'll be getting even louder peaks than the music [such as the guy standing next to you cheering at the end of a song] then leave even more headroom - run it so the music peaks just into the bottom 1 or 2 segments of the meter. You an always limit/compress and amplify it later, and shouldn't have a big problem with hiss, either.

[emptyzero]

Both good posts that gave me things to try next time, thank you. I'll come back into this thread after the next show I record.

[emptyzero]

try doing this: leave AGC off, use the rolloff at the same setting and put the volume of the recorder at 16/30.

going through the MIC IN so this is for sure getting turned OFF when I tape on monday. The PA-6LC2 is a default 85 cycles with an on/off switch so either I have it or I don't. I think leaving AGC off and the PA-6LC2 on will help out in a big way.

[emptyzero]

"always line in...the mic in has a limited dynamic range cos of it's built in power source"

Scratch that, was talking to a friend and he told me why going with the LINE IN is better which is something dex was talking about.

[mrsoul]

Speaking of the Line In. I tried out my NH900 at some outdoor shows on Thursday with mixed results.

First, I am using an AT822 mic powered with 1 AA battery.

This was an outdoor event on a closed street with the PA's on the ground below an elevated stage. The drums were blocked by the "lip" of the stage and the musician stage monitors were blocked some by the "lip" ( a concrete wall). So, most of the SPL was from the 2 PAs up front which were approx 15 feet apart.

First show: Line In 30/30 with very good levels, much higher levels than I once I got with the same mic going Line In on my Sharp DR7. Is there a difference in the Sharp and Sony Line In power or signal (not sure what to call that)? Maybe it was the proximity to the PA's that helped. Just curious if there is a difference?

I then uploaded via SS and converted to wav with Marcnet's HiMDrender. No problems found. I then used Cool Edit Pro to normalize and there was no need to amplify. Had very good levels. I was approx. 20 feet center on the 2 PA's.

My only problem was the automatic tracking through the Line In. I was always able to turn this off using the Sharp, the Sony is another story. When the crowd was low between tunes, the Sony would make another track. I really want just one long track to split later using CD Wave Editor. In the Sony menu, I tried to set the Track setting to off but I think that is only for interval settings, not to turn it off altogether. Is this just the Sony method for Line In?

Also, I should have set the mic to Bass Filter since I found the bass a little too much later but I just lowered the bass on my playback speakers without too much trouble.

Main show: I went Mic In with AGC set to Loud Music and Low Sens. I found the AGC to work really well here but I did not like the extra noise I got from the Mic In preamp. A little too much noise for my taste considering how good the levels were on the Line In from the same location. My Sharp DR7 Mic In never gave me that much noise. Too bad there but I would probably only use Line In unless the levels go too low.

During this 2nd set, I used Manual Recording levels and I couldn't tell much difference when listening between AGC and Manual. I was suprised with the performance of the AGC but the extra hiss was a minus. The Bass Filter was on for this show and the mix more even with the filter activated. I also used Hi-SP for this show. Could that have been the source of the extra noise?? I used PCM for the Line In opening set since I knew it was only going to be a 60 minute opener for that band.

So, long story: Line IN with AT822 and the NH900 was very good except for the auto tracking issue. Any suggestions?

Mic In with AGC performs very well but the extra noise limits my preference. Was the Hi-Sp responsible for that noise?

I am also looking forward to my remote upgrade to arrive before my next show this Friday. It's just a pain in the arse to have to use a flashlight every time I want to look at the levels. I plan to use the auto backlight on the RM-MC40ELK during the shows. I wonder how much extra battery drain that will cause?

[Christopher]

Awesome report there, mrsoul!

I plan to use the auto backlight on the RM-MC40ELK during the shows. I wonder how much extra battery drain that will cause?

It's usually close to negligible; what kind of gumstick battery are you using on the NH900 and are you using the AA add-on pack?

[emptyzero]

Does the auto backlight setting suck up juice to the point that it affects the recording?

[emptyzero]

I emailed the creator of studio sonics and he's already gotten back to me....

"Always use MIC level input with these mics.

Sony MD decks should usually be set to MANUAL REC level mode, not the default AUTO level for best results. However, Sony MD decks have deliberate problems with trying to record amplified events do to the deck being 'stuck' in HIGH GAIN mic input mode that causes overloads.

If available, use LOW mic sensitivity setting as was available in earlier Sony MD decks with a switch on the backside, and as available in the <#20 REC level setting on ALL Sharp MD portables with MIC input jacks. "

[dex Otaku]

This is an excellent point, and one that I seem t always forget in my advice.

Every Sony I've used defaulted to low sensitivity, though. Which what you generally want.

Good show.

[mrsoul]

I am using rechargable NiMh AA on the dry cell case and I using 1400mAh gumsticks that I got from http://shop4battery.com

I haven't even charged the batteryNH-10WM that shipped with the unit. I took your advice and got the two higher mAh ones. The Rechargeables are Rayovac NiMh AA 2000mAh, the 15 minute IC3 type. I did change gumsticks between the 2 shows just because. I was down 1 bar on the battery meter and wanted to make sure, real conservative but I was recording in PCM for 1 hour on the opener. Not much drain when using the Hi-SP setting. I think I will always have at least 2 of each type ready for every recording just to be safe. :cool:

[emptyzero]

Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L --> PA-6LC2 (85 cycle bass filter ON)--> Sony MZ-NH1 Hi-MD (record volume: set manually monday night, AGC: Standard, Mic Sensitivity: LOW)

Hey Dex, does that sound like a winner for getting a good FOS at the deftones show monday night?

I need to get out the manual and figure out how to shut AGC completely off. I've been hearing that the Loud Music setting isn't the greatest so right now I have it on Standard.

[dex Otaku]

If you turn manual record levels on, AGC is turned off. It's one or the other.

That's pretty much how I'd do it, though I'm not familiar with your mic and the acoustics of where you're recording and how they balance the PA. I usually record clean [no filtering] and do EQ afterwards; I'm from the old-school way of thought when it comes to EQ: passive EQ is OK, active EQ [increasing levels in a band] is not. [comes from using analogue equipment; subtracting is okay, adding isn't because it adds noise]

[mrsoul]

I think I may have found one way to at least limit auto tracks. If I set the Auto Tracking to 60 minutes will that be the only time it makes a new track going Line In?

Regardless of the recording level? Silence?

If that's the case, then I will just set to auto tracks at 60 minutes and let it roll on the Line In. I can then just go back and combine the tracks at the 60 minute mark.

(BTW, I meant AGC in my post above, coffee was low when I wrote that one ) :sleep:

[dex Otaku]

I haven't tried this as I have always recorded from the mic in with my NH700 and never tried this with the older units I used.

My guess is that you'll get the auto trackmarks but it will likely still place markers where the levels go sufficiently low for longer than 2 seconds. I might be wrong though.

[aeriyn]

Sony portables are annoying about putting track marks when you don't want them; even with digital recordings...

I was recording from a DVD player with coaxial out through a format converter to optical, and it was track mark hell. There'd be twice as many track marks as normal... or there would be NO track marks (in the case of CDs that had no silence at all between tracks) at all.

It seems, with Sony, that if there's one overriding factor (when using optical in, and the CD deck sends the track marks at the proper places) it won't do track marks every 2 seconds of silence. With mic-in I've found that it makes no track marks for silence... but line/opt in jack is probably going to always make a track mark when there's 2 or more seconds of silence.

I think you may have to deal with the track marks, or record via mic in and leave the rolloff and battery box out of the equation...