Sony Ecm-ds70p Is This Good Enough?

[hanz0]

hi, im gonna attempt to record a live concert. i will be very close to the stage, and i know the sound will be loud. im a big noobie when it comes to recording, cause ive never tried. i read that sony mics frequencies arent that great. i will be using the sony HI-MD mz-nh900 to record it. will this mic be good enough? i would like to have a nice clean recording, so please suggest anything. thanks in advance.

link to mic specs: sony mic

[A440]

No, it's not good enough. That mic is fairly big and lacks bass response. You can do better.

Save yourself some money and get this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW

Or order them through the Sound Professionals site,

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-2

Either way, get clips to go with them so you can clip them to your lapels, a baseball cap, your eyeglasses, etc. Make sure nothing is rubbing against them.

Since your show is going to be loud, also get a Radio Shack Headphone Volume Control (now sometimes called Headphone Extension Cord), as pictured with my signature. It should prevent your MD from overloading. Mic----->RS (with volume all the way up or just a notch or two below)--->Mic Jack. Or you can skip it and use the Low Sensitivity setting, but that's a little more prone to overloading.

Push Rec/Pause while you can still read the display before the show. In the REC SET menus, set Mic Sensitivity to High (or LOW if you're not using the RS cord), Rec Volume to Manual, 10/30. Leave it in Pause until the show starts. If you push Stop at any time you're going to have to go through all the menus again.

To hear what those mics sound like, go to www.yahoo.com, Mail, Box: livefrommd

with the password 1minidisc1 and download the oldest recordings in the Inbox.

Or get these, which seem to be the same mics mounted to fit inside your ears for extremely realistic headphone recordings, and use the same settings.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-TFB-2

If you want to shop around, there are similar miniature binaural/omni (same thing) mics at www.microphonemadness.com and www.reactivesounds.com .

If you're too close to the stage you'll get a weird mix, because the PA is pointed to sound better further back. But those mics will pick up pretty much what you're actually hearing. If you can see your display during the show, make sure it's not constantly pinned at maximum--if it is, lower the Manual volume (turn the jog wheel counterclockwise) or lower the RS volume knob. Don't get fidgety with the volume during the show, though, because you'll hear every level change in the recording.

You can probably set it to 10 and forget it.

And don't forget that if you're a chatterbox during the show, or someone near you is, you'll hear every word.

[hanz0]

thanks a lot for all that info. in terms of the loudness, its not gonna be like a heavy metal concert. i just know ill be pretty close to the stage, so the sound from the speakers will be sufficient. ill shop around for some mics. its cool casue im actually goin to 2 shows, so i can kinda use the first one as practice. also, i noticed the mic to your link is actually 2 mics. so im guessing i can clip them to each side of my shirt?

Edited January 14, 2005 by hanz0

[Reactive]

In some cases of high loudness the microphone elements will distort, even with a volume attenuator down the line, your still going to have that distortion factor.

How do you get around this?

Part One.

Power the microphones at their full rated voltage (approx 10 volts dc, for most electet based mic elements). This allows the microphone to operate at it's full dynamic potential. You will have the added benefit of allowing that mic element to accept a much higher sound level before it distorts.

Most mic elements can handle approx 100dB when powered thru the mic jack on a minidisc recorder. Power the element at approx 9v and that same element can handle 115-120 dB. That's a significant increase in power handling. Very significant.

You'll need a power supply that connects to the microphones and the MD recorder. We sell them under the name of a "Juice Box" on our retail web site, more info to be had there.....

Part two.

By-passing the MD recorder pre-amp:

The minidisc recorder, a marvel of technology, by far the best portable recording device out there in my opinion. However, the pre-amps have not been designed for loud recording noises, especially from a mic element that puts out a really high signal.

Solution: By-pass the pre-amp completely by inserting the mic plug into the line-in jack. How is this possible without a mic pre-amp you ask? Well it turns out that the electret mic element when properly powered by an external power supply such as the "Juice box" will put out a very high signal. High enough in most loud recording situations that a pre-amp is not required at all. Now that is cool!!

The result. A beautiful clean recording that rivals professional gear costing many times more.

One last tip. Be aware that some practice is required, you must know your gear, and be an active listener before you hit the record button. In fact this is a point that is worthy of another discussion. So i'll leave it at that for now.

Good luck, let us know what your experiences are, and we all benifit from it.

Gerry Bolda

www.reactivesounds.com

[hanz0]

thanks for tha. the concerts wont be til may, so i have some time to get the details straightened out. this is gonna sound stupid, but if i were to put the speakers in my room on blast, and practiced recording the audio in my room, will that give me a good idea of where im at? even though i know the volume wont compare to the concert

Edited January 14, 2005 by hanz0

[Christopher]

I'm not the most well versed in this field, but I do know that experience and practice will help. If anything, you can always sharpen your "wield" times; i.e. turning the unit on, setting it to manual, adjusting recording settings steadfast, etc. After time, you'll be the fastest recorder in town.

Today is a day of bad puns and little sleep.

p.s. Record as much as possible though, get comfortable with such so when you do want to do it for real, you don't have to question anything.

[A440]

You're right, clip the mics to each side of your shirt.

If you separate them by about 6 inches and point them left and right--like your ears, even better with something in between--you'll get a recording geared for headphones. Point them more forward if you'll be listening through speakers.

Higher up is better--no people in front to muffle the sound, no conversations nearby--so you could also try them on a hat or your glasses. If you don't have to be stealthy you could even put them on a pole.

And yes, try recording your stereo and experiment with settings: Low and High Sensitivity, various manual volumes, where you have the mics clipped, where you stand in the room.

No argument with Gerry Bolda about boosting power to the mics as the best way to open up headroom. But the little attenuator (which doesn't provide more headroom, just prevents the mics from overloading the built-in preamp) will handle most loud music.

Gerry, where's that better-grade attenuator you were going to build? Add it to your product line and I'll be the first to get one.

[hanz0]

thanks a440 for the suggetions on those mics. i guess theyre nothing special, but i was just playing around and was recording audio from my tv, and i was blown away by the clarity of the recording. i also got the volume adjuster like you suggested. now if i leave the mic sens on high, manually set the level at 10/30, and leave the volume adjuster at or around max. what are the chances of my recording overloading? cause i really dont think ill be able to really see the screen on my recorder during the show; to check on the rec level.

Edited February 2, 2005 by hanz0

[A440]

Those are the settings I use, and I have been to some LOUD concerts.

Even with my NHF800, I'm still using the Radio Shack gizmo and Hi Sens because when I have recorded without it--Low Sens, Manual 10/30--I've still overloaded on some bass drum sounds.

I don't know which mics you ended up with, but if you have the DS70P you have even more leeway because it doesn't pick up all the deep bass that overloads the mic preamp.

Just make sure you don't hit the STOP button during the show, because if you do, and start again, the recorder will switch to AGC. While you have light, even it it's outside the show before you go in, set everything in REC PAUSE and leave it on HOLD, then un-HOLD and push the PAUSE button again to start. When it's going, just leave it tucked in a pocket, recording on HOLD, and make track marks later.

Don't forget to use a fresh alkaline battery, like a Duracell Ultra.

[hanz0]

thanks. the mics i got are from the sound professionals, SP-BMC-2. i think im gonna be hitting the track marks during the show, i just think itll be easier in the end, if i have them already marked. cause i asked in a different thread about uploading tracks into SS one at a time. im guessing it may be a safer way to transfer, but its just a thought.

Edited February 2, 2005 by hanz0

[A440]

I've been using those same mics for the last few months, and they're wonderful. You can hear some results with those mics and settings at livefromMDD (at) yahoo.com, PW 1minidisc1

Take them out for a stroll and record, you'll get some very realistic spatial effects.

The only reasons not to do track marks at the time are stealth--the MD is shiny, after all--and the possibility of hitting the wrong button if it's dark or crowded, like accidentally pausing or stopping. If you're standing up in the crush of people at a club, you might be better off just starting it and tucking it away in a pocket on HOLD. But it's up to you--I usually keep the MD in the palm of my hand and make track marks on the spot. You can still insert track marks before you upload, just listen back to it on the MD.

[hanz0]

so if i record it as one big track. how do i make the track marks on the disc? this is just a guess, if i were to listen to it, during the playback, if i hit the track mark button, would it make a new track? or is it more complicated than that.

[Abbstrack]

so if i record it as one big track. how do i make the track marks on the disc? this is just a guess, if i were to listen to it, during the playback, if i hit the track mark button, would it make a new track? or is it more complicated than that.

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it's no more complicated than what you just described. thats all you gotta do. the simplicity and complexity of md, all in one fell swoop. gotta love it.

[mmilovan]

BTW,

someone knows is there limitation voltage for electret microphone capsules (I already made battery box and modification of capsule according to this scheme http://www.linkwitzlab.com/sys_test.htm) - is there a rule: "more power from battery means less distorsion" or something like that, or you must go straight as voltage written in technical data sheets?

Thanks.

Part One.

Power the microphones at their full rated voltage (approx 10 volts dc, for most electet based mic elements).  This allows the microphone to operate at it's full dynamic potential.  You will have the added benefit of allowing that mic element to accept a much higher sound level before it distorts.

Most mic elements can handle approx 100dB when powered thru the mic jack on a minidisc recorder.  Power the element at approx 9v and that same element can handle 115-120 dB.   That's a significant increase in power handling.  Very significant.Gerry Bolda

www.reactivesounds.com

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