Recording Static

[Wendy]

Hi all - having gotten some very helpful assistance here a few weeks ago, I'm hoping for more of the same! Thanks in advance.

I have the Sony EMD-DS709P microphone in use with a Sony MZ-NHF800 which I'm using on a trial basis.

My main objective is to record the kids' concerts and my own band practice sessions so I can practice along with the group from the comfort of my own home.

I have gotten some satisfactory band practices recorded, with some very faint static on the loud parts. Hard to define, but like a crinkling sound. I usually set the sensitivity to "Loud music" as the band is quite loud obviously.

I assumed that this was maybe a recording level problem, so tried last night with also setting the recording level lower, to about 10/30. However, that seems to have made it worse.

I know the recording is subject to picking up machine noise, but it's not that. That has a distinctive sound and I can live with that for this purpose. This is static. I have a small mp3, if anyone cares to hear it.

My brother has the same microphone and uses a little flash mp3 player/recorder and his recordings sound better than mine with no static. And his cost half the price, I might add!

That shouldn't be right, should it? I bought the minidisc hoping for quality recordings based on what I'd read, so I assume it's user error here.

Any help greatly appreciated.

Wendy

[mrsoul]

That sounds like a mic problem.

Are you going through the red input or the white input into the NH800?

Is that a powered mic? Do you put a battery in the microphone?

I would try something like the microphone your brother has on your NH800 or use the cheap mic that came with your computer and see if you notice any static with either of those mics.

[Wendy]

Thank you, Mrsoul - I do have a cheap mic - I'll try it with that. The mic I have though is the same one my brother has, and both are new. He bought his because of the results I got with mine.

I thought for sure it was a recording level problem, but alas, it got worse with lowering the volume.

Sigh.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll try a different mic and see if there's any effect.

[Black_Shoulder]

I have the MZ-NHF800 and uses the ECM-D870P mic to record live music (from my music lessons). The sound quality is all right when listening to the MD itself. But when I upload the recording to the PC and plays it on the PC using Windows Media Player, then a lot of noises can be heard. I don't know if that is the same problem as the one you have stated here, Wendy.

[Wendy]

No, this static-like noise seems to occur whether or not I listen to it on the md or after converting. I'm sure I must have a setting wrong somewhere.

What settings do you use for recording your practices?

Thanks!

[txgitarman]

I'm having this problem too. My MD is a Sony MZ-G750. I think the "static" noise occurs because the music is louder than the microphone can accept. The static is the sound of digital distortion. I'm curious about whether it is possible to overdrive the microphone with loud music even though you aren't overdriving the microphone preamp because the recording level is turned down. There is one person on the forums that talks about using a Radio Shack headphone extension cable with a volume control on it. If you are reading this post - Radio Shack suggesting person -- does this work with mics that rely on plug-in power? Will that help this person and me with the distortion issue?

No, this static-like noise seems to occur whether or not I listen to it on the md or after converting.  I'm sure I must have a setting wrong somewhere.

What settings do you use for recording your practices?

Thanks!

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[A440]

Overloading doesn't sound like static--it sounds like a big blare of sound, obliterating the music. Either the mic or the built-in mic preamp can overload. If it's the preamp that's overloading, which has been the only problem I've had, the Headphone Volume Control/ Headphone Extension Cord (pictured with my sig) pretty much solves it. I use mics that rely on plug-in power, so yes, txguitarman, that should do it assumimg your mic itself isn't overloading.

Just plug it into the mic jack, leave the volume knob at maximum, plug the mic into the jack and record. If you fiddle with the knob during the recording you may get static from that.

Look at the specs for SPL (sound pressure level). 100-110dB is a loud rock concert, 120 is a jet takeoff; every 10 decibels DOUBLES the sound. If your mic is rated 80-90 dB, then the mic itself may be overloading, so the headphone volume control won't help.

Wendy, your explanation is a little confusing. If you are using Auto Gain Control (the default setting), then the Loud Music setting affects that. If you are using Manual Volume, then the Loud/Standard settings don't matter because AGC is off. And if you are using AGC, then setting the Record Volume doesn't affect anything.

It's possible that the static is the AGC trying to cope with the volume, so if you are using AGC then go through Rec Set menus (while in Rec/Pause), set it to Manual volume 10/30, and see how that goes. If you push Stop it goes back automatically to AGC.

But if you are using Manual Volume then the static sounds like a different problem because it increased when you turned down the recording volume.

That suggests that the static isn't the signal coming from the mic--it's coming from the MD itself, either the mic jack or the preamp. I haven't had that problem with any of the four MD's I've owned, and it could just be a loose connection somewhere. If that MD unit is still on trial, exchange it for another one and see if the problem goes away.

[Wendy]

Thanks for taking the time to write this. I'm sure my problem is something I'm doing. Someone has asked for a clip of the problem - so maybe I'll get some further advice based on that.

In the meantime, I did notice that the static does seem to be related to the full band as opposed to some of the quieter passages. Today I taped my smaller ensemble with the manual volume on 4, but although I didn't have the static problem, the recording is so quiet I can barely hear it. I may be on the right track though.

Is that just a standard headphone volume control you have there? I have a different one so maybe I'll try using that. My mic is on a peg and I do pick up a fair bit of machine noise (different from this static problem), so was thinking I'd buy an extension cord, but maybe I already have one!

Your description of SPL (thanks for explaining that - I have been wondering what it stood for) would lead me to believe that our band probably plays somewhere slightly lower than a rock concert, so maybe that's part of the problem.

I think you are right in that my settings were confused. I didn't realize that manual volume overrides the Loud/Standard setting. Does it override everything, for instance also the mic sensitivity? I didn't realize it was an either/or setting. I thought you could set all the settings independently.

However, as noted the static did seem to increase as I turned down the volume manually, but now I wonder if I had adjusted the volume and then accidentally overridden it by changing something else afterwards.

Would I be able to hear the static if I had the headphones in while recording? I'll try this, although it isn't ideal because when the band is playing, I should be too, so can't be fooling around with the recorder too much. But I'll try.

Thanks for all your help!

Back to the drawing board.

[dex Otaku]

I'm having this problem too. My MD is a Sony MZ-G750.   I think the "static" noise occurs because the music is louder than the microphone can accept.  The static is the sound of digital distortion.  I'm curious about whether it is possible to overdrive the microphone with loud music even though you aren't overdriving the microphone preamp because the recording level is turned down.  There is one person on the forums that talks about using a Radio Shack headphone extension cable with a volume control on it.  If you are reading this post - Radio Shack suggesting person -- does this work with mics that rely on plug-in power?  Will that help this person and me with the distortion issue?

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To add one thing to A440's reply:

Digital distortion is caused by overloading the A/D convertor.

This is clearly not digital distortion, as I have seen a chunk of the PCM which Wendy sent me; the distortion is happening before the A/D conversion takes place.

This puts the blame on either the mic being overloaded because it can't handle SPL that high, or the mic preamp being overloaded by to high an input signal.

In either case, moving the mic farther from the source will fix the problem.

[A440]

Wendy, I hope things are improving for you.

Mic Sensitivity applies to both Manual and AGC, and you can set it to default to Low and leave it there.

There's nothing special about the Radio Shack headphone volume control--in fact, I wish I could find something better made--so try yours. Even on full volume, it will probably cut the signal somewhat. Or as Dex says, move the mic further away. Or both....

[Wendy]

Hi A440 - thanks for this. I'll try the headphone extender thingy.

Also, I tried recording one of my groups on Saturday - this time with the volume set down to 4/30. Well, the static is gone, but I can barely hear the music now!

But at least that leads me to believe that I'm on the right track and can fix the problem.

Next practice = tomorrow night = another chance to experiment.

I noticed yesterday in a local store a little set made by Panasonic that included a headphone extension and three plugs for headphones: one to convert between the large and small plugs, one for use on airlines (although I think the airlines are moving away from those things) and the third was a splitter that would permit two headphones to share a single output. That seems a must if you watch dvds on your laptop while on an airplane. Anyhow, the cord was 'coily' like headphone cords on old. The set was only $10 which seemed reasonable, but a bit on the bulky side for my needs because of the coily cord.

I'll see how it goes tomorrow night. Fingers crossed! Thanks for all the help.

[A440]

I don't think a simple extension cord would do what the Radio Shack's volume control cord does, which is to cut down the signal that goes through the volume control (technically an attenuator).

But you may not need one at all if Manual Volume keeps you from overloading. If the music is clear at 4/30 then it seems your mic can handle the volume and the preamp was overloading.

4/30 is pretty low. I've been using Low Sensitivity and 9/30 for shows that are really blasting, and that works with my mic.

Save your low-volume recording, though, and use a sound editor program (Audacity http://audacity.sourceforge.net is free) to Amplify it (under Effects) and see if it's usable.