First Timer!

[boogs]

G'day guys,

I just bought my first MD and Mic for recording 2 days ago. I've got an upcoming gig and I specifically bought it to record that, obviously. I broke the bank with:

1x Sony MZ-NH700 Hi-MD

1x Sony ECM-DS70P Mic

It's going to be an acoustic gig (mic'd up to feed the venue with sound of course), and I'll probably be standing either right up the front or somewhere near the front-middle. Now, what is the best way to go about recording this? Some say AGC for my first time, others say go manual. I'd really like this recording to come out as best as possible (ie, no microphone annoyances such as shirt rustling, etc... - the mic doesn't have a clip, and i'm going to need to somehow most likely conceal it).

Any tips would seriously be of great help. I've tried different things like 'Standard' and "Loud Music' modes with low/high level mic sense, manual volume/agc but I'd seriously love some expert advice as to how to go about getting the best possible recording out of the occasion). Maybe someone could offer me an optimum setup, such as 'Low sens mic, 16 record volume', whatever! Thanks,

- boogs

PS. I am a first timer, so keep it simple for me. I'm no audiophile, unfortunately

[A440]

Well, you asked for it.

Mic-In

Low Sens

Manual Volume 10/30

If you've got a 1GB Hi-MD disc and the set is going to last less than 90 minutes, record in PCM. If you're using a standard (74 or 80-minute) MD, or it's a longer set, then record in Hi-SP.

(AGC and Standard/Loud music are not involved when you use manual.)

That means you have to insert the disc, push Rec and Pause at the same time (the time display blinks, the level meter moves), push Menu, click down to Rec Set, click down to Rec Volume, switch to manual, set to 10/30 by pushing the center stick (>) left or right, or turning the wheel. Pause Pause again to un-pause and start recording, as the time display starts to tick off seconds.

Keep an eye on the level meter. With luck it's somewhere between the two little dashes. Nudge up the volume if it's staying below the left dash. Don't fiddle a lot with it during the show, because you'll hear every volume change.

If you want, you can just leave it on Hold to record the whole show insured against jostling, etc. Or you can take it off Hold between songs to push the track button during applause, which will make it easier to find songs later. But one great thing about MD is that you can also add track marks after the fact, like when you're playing it back at home.

Use Pause, not Stop, if you want to pause during recording. Pressing Stop will send your default back to AGC, and you'll have to do the whole manual volume thing again.

AGC can't anticipate changes in sound, so you can hear it adjusting itself with any sharp accents in the music, making an obvious whooshing sound. If you want to hear AGC's ill effects, go to mail.yahoo.com and the mailbox livefrommd, password 1minidisc1, and listen to the blues recording from John May er. That's why it's better to use Manual set low enough to leave headroom for any sudden surge.

Try this first with your stereo playing something that approximates the gig. It's easier than the description sounds.

The best place to record a concert is not necessarily the best place to view it. When you're finding a spot, or maybe during the opening act, close your eyes and think about how the sound is balanced. Your recording can't read a singer's lips the way you do when you're at a show.

With the DS70P, don't plug the mic plug directly into the MD unless you like the sound of the machine whirring and vibrating in your recording. Use the extension cord instead. If it doesn't have a clip, improvise one--a big paper clip perhaps--so you can put it on your shirt pocket or coat collar. The higher up it is the better, so people in front of you don't muffle the sound. Put it on your belt only if you're desperate for concealment.

If you're really worried about stealth in future, you can find smaller, affordable, eraser-sized microphones like the Sound Professionals BMC-2's that you can clip to a shirt collar.

And, obviously:

Start each recording with a fresh new battery.

[superiorinferior]

It's going to be an acoustic gig (mic'd up to feed the venue with sound of course), and I'll probably be standing either right up the front or somewhere near the front-middle. Now, what is the best way to go about recording this? Some say AGC for my first time, others say go manual. I'd really like this recording to come out as best as possible (ie, no microphone annoyances such as shirt rustling, etc...  - the mic doesn't have a clip, and i'm going to need to somehow most likely conceal it).

Well, if the gig isn't too formal , you could always wear a mesh baseball cap (turned backwards with the mesh in front during the gig) and put your mic up there pointed in the "forward position" let the wire go down your back (GW Bush style) to your new recorder.

That model mic is pretty small, so it might look okay, if the hat is nice and roomy up top.

Good luck.

[dex Otaku]

Stealthing tip for t-mics:

Purses or satchels with fabric sides work great for this.

I've gone to a show with a woman-friend who had this lovely fabric satchel/purse thing that had a pocket on the side that was made from acoustically-transparent fabric. I shoved the recorder and T-mic [the same one you've bought] in here, monitored with 'phones to position the satchel, and left it running once I'd found a good place.

An advantage to using a method like this is that the bag itself will acoustically shield the mic from crowd noise if you're in a small or tightly-packed venue.

I usually carry my gear in camera cases, which sometimes have similar pockets. A good purse is invaluable camouflage, though.

[boogs]

Well, you asked for it.

←

lol, certainly did! I've actually figured out most of that (recording/using the md). I actually did some research on the mic before I bought it, and yes, I've also got an extension lead for it! I was hoping to buy the ECM-719, but its not a popular mic around here .

10 seems a little low, though, doesn't it? I mean it WILL be a smallish venue with lots of people, and I'm guessing its going to drown out a lot of background noise/microphone movement ? And yes, I actually thought of the cap/beanie trick. Tried leaving it there for 10 minutes and I now have a permanent imprint of the 'Sony' logo on my forehead

I'm estimating the gig will go for about 2.5 hours, so Hi-SP mode for me (plus 1gb disc!)

Thanks again for all your tips guys!

[dex Otaku]

One thing I'd do when I can't monitor the levels constantly is to record the sound check or opening band for 1 minute each at 10, 15, 20, 25 .. manual levels, normal mic sensitivity .. and then go ahead and record the show at around 10/30 as A440 suggests. When you do your transfers later you can check the relative volumes from the short clips, to see what was still reasonable.

This at least works on a per-venue basis.

[boogs]

One thing I'd do when I can't monitor the levels constantly is to record the sound check or opening band for 1 minute each at 10, 15, 20, 25 .. manual levels, normal mic sensitivity .. and then go ahead and record the show at around 10/30 as A440 suggests.  When you do your transfers later you can check the relative volumes from the short clips, to see what was still reasonable.

This at least works on a per-venue basis.

←

With my Hi-MD, you can only have the Mic sens on High/Low, but that level recording idea might actually work well. I know there will be a supporting act, but I dont wanna fiddle around too much and get caught. New songs will be trialed at this gig by the main act and the manager doesn't like it, I'm led to believe

[A440]

You can (and should) set the Mic Sens on Low, and that setting will be retained as a default until you change it.

Yes, 10/30 is conservative. It won't eliminate crowd noise or mic-handling noise--nothing will. If you're standing next to a screamer or a conversation, move. The low manual volume is to prevent the recording from overloading. Amplified acoustic is still amplified; you can make a real racket with a strummed acoustic guitar through a PA. If you're expecting crowd noise, that suggests a fairly loud show.

Go to the men's room between acts, put in a new battery and run through the whole Rec-Pause to Manual Volume sequence, then leave the recorder paused and on Hold and get back to your spot. All you'll have to do is slide Hold to off and push the Pause button to start recording, both easy to find by feel in a pocket.

Even if you can't leave your spot, don't be super-paranoid about this. People carry lots of little shiny things to concerts: phones, cameras, iPODs, PDAs, mp3 players. The sound guy may conceivably know what a MD recorder looks like, but the bouncers probably don't. I've pulled out my MD to make track marks or look at levels with ushers right next to me at arena shows, and they're clueless. Just be sensible, don't wave the mic around and you should be fine.

[boogs]

Stealthing tip for t-mics:

Purses or satchels with fabric sides work great for this. 

I've gone to a show with a woman-friend who had this lovely fabric satchel/purse thing that had a pocket on the side that was made from acoustically-transparent fabric.  I shoved the recorder and T-mic [the same one you've bought] in here, monitored with 'phones to position the satchel, and left it running once I'd found a good place.

←

Question, was your mic on high or low sens, and manually set volume I'm guessing?

[LowMD]

The only time you will ever want High Sens is if you are recording extremely quiet sounds. For music, especially amplified music, Low Sens is a must.

[boogs]

I thought as much! I'm actually going to try and use the pouch that the MD came with. pop the mic in there, and then get some sort of lanyard to hang it around my neck (stereo cable will run down my shirt to my pocket).

seems low key enough

[Tourist]

The MD pouch might cover the mic jack, and you're also going to have trouble reaching the controls. Though I suppose you could start recording, put it on hold, and put it back in the pouch.

Mic down the shirt is a good idea. I drop the cord down behind the buttons and then fold the mics back into the shirt under the top button, pull them out and clip them to shirt or glasses when the lights go down. Thread the mic jack through your belt loops, put the MD in a pocket. Two words: baggy pants. Or a buttoned shirt pocket.

[boogs]

The MD pouch might cover the mic jack, and you're also going to have trouble reaching the controls. Though I suppose you could start recording, put it on hold, and put it back in the pouch.

←

Oh it will. But I'll have an extension lead of about 2m going from the pouch, into the top of my shirt (the pouch will be sitting thereabouts), all the way down to my jeans, into one of those pockets

Having the lead also eliminates the Mic from picking up the MD's electronics/moving parts!

[Mr Sim]

there is another alternative where you hook your MD unit into the PA for the show you mentioned that things would be mic'd for better sound.

If you are planning to record the entire band this may be the solution you want and it would probably be the best for qualtiy

How to:

-find a cord that is 1/8" mono at one end and 1/4"(mini) stereo at the other end

-put the mono end into one of the "AUX outs" on the sound board and the stereo end into the "line in" on the MD do a few tests at low power to find good levels (i.e. board output volume + MD input volume)

Note: you may get the urge to want to use the AC adaptor but I would recomend against it because it is known to cause buzzing and humming during recording. you might want to use it for sound checking but it would be better if you could use the battery for the actual show.

[dex Otaku]

there is another alternative where you hook your MD unit into the PA for the show you mentioned that things would be mic'd for better sound.

If you are planning to record the entire band this may be the solution you want and it would probably be the best for qualtiy

How to:

-find a cord that is 1/8" mono at one end and 1/4"(mini) stereo at the other end

-put the mono end into one of the "AUX outs" on the sound board and the stereo end into the "line in" on the MD do a few tests at low power to find good levels (i.e. board output volume + MD input volume)

Note: you may get the urge to want to use the AC adaptor but I would recomend against it because it is known to cause buzzing and humming during recording. you might want to use it for sound checking but it would be better if you could use the battery for the actual show.

←

Many sound boards have tape outputs, in which case a standard dual-RCA to 3.5mm stereo cable will work fine, even if things are mixed in mono.

The AC adapter usually causes problems only when using condenser mics which are powered by the MD/HiMD itself. It should have no ill effect on line-level recordings unless the power lines are extremely noisy.

[boogs]

Well, the gig is tonight so I guess I'll see how I go! Hopefully it'll be as clear as possible with as little crowd/clothing interference. I'm going to wing it tonight and hope they dont catch me out personally - I'll either be carrying the mic inside the MD carry pouch hanging off my neck or if I'm feeling lucky I may even have it hanging off the top of my tshirt, exposed!!!

Most of the gigs I go to, I find that a lot of the bands' managers are absolute nazis (even sometimes the venue security/employees) so I'm thinking it would be best to invest in some sort of stealth microphone solution. Maybe something that I can cover up pretty well using the collar of my shirt by using alligator clips or something? Suggestions guys?

[LowMD]

Look at some of the eraser-sized binaurals from Sound Professionals (BMC-2), Microphone Madness, Reactive Sounds, etc. Wear a black shirt, hide them inside till the lights go down, clip them to a shirt collar and anyone who's not right next to you AND looking for mics probably won't see them Or get in-ear binaurals and people will think they're just earplugs.

Good luck at the gig.

[boogs]

What an awesome gig! And moreso, what an awesome quality bootleg! (One of the best done/available for this act, anyway!) I'm totally stoked with the quality, personally (some of you may not think so, I dont know how picky some of you guys are )

http://james.alternative.net.au/sfk/10.03....ntshow_clip.mp3

There's a quick 1 minute clip (i'm still 'mastering' [god im a n00b], cutting, etc..) I thought I'd like to show you guys re: my effort.

I was actually standing in front of the main act, literally. Mic hanging off my tshirt. It was dark and he was being blinded by lights, I guess. Either way,

Thank you all so much for your much valued advice!!!

[LowMD]

Welcome to live concert recording. Now you can see why we're so fond of this medium. And it sounds like you were standing in a pretty ideal spot.

Edited March 11, 2005 by LowMD