Jump to content

Big Shakeup At Sony

Webmaster

By Webmaster,
in News

 Share

Recommended Posts

Webmaster Newbie

Webmaster

Posted
Posted

Big Shakeup at Sony: Various news sources report that CEO Nobuyuki Idei will likely be replaced by Howard Stringer. A Wall Street Journal piece adds this Minidisc related commentary: The Walkman group has suffered from a split between those who believe Sony should make its gadgets compatible with a wide range of popular services and technologies -- like the MP3 music-encoding system -- and those who push Sony's proprietary technology -- such as Minidiscs and the Atrac music-encoding system.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...efer=news_index

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FlatEarth Newbie

FlatEarth

Posted
Posted

Does it not scare you all a bit that minidisc was bunched with ATRAC in the 'bad' column?

Hmm... I don't think the article means that it was 'bad' as much as 'punished', and I have to agree completely.

I am absolutely thrilled that they are still developing for the technology and I still hold out hope that this trend will continue, but I'm really really sad that it has taken sooooooooooooo long for this to happen. Seem like all this stuff was really available a long time ago, but only desperation has brought these upgrades.

But I'll still be buying one of the MD cams for my dad... he's gonna freak smile.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Breepee2 Newbie

Breepee2

Posted
Posted

Does it not scare you all a bit that minidisc was bunched with ATRAC in the 'bad' column?

Exactly what I thought. With proper marketing and of mp3-support (o wait, it's already there!) I think it could be a real competitor to the likes of iPod.

I only want 1 thing more on my HiMD: native support for some compressed lossless format (Like iPod do with Apple Lossless).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
carlie7 Newbie

carlie7

Posted
Posted

I wholeheartedly agree with nismo96's take on this and think there may be slight cause for alarm regarding the future of MD if not in Europe definitely the US.

The Walkman group has suffered, etc…

… those who push Sony's proprietary technology -- such as Minidiscs and the Atrac music-encoding system.

These two paraphrased excerpts from the above quote say to me that part of the reason Sony has suffered so greatly stems from the “push” of their proprietary technologies such as Minidisc AND Atrac… not Minidisc that USES or SUPPORTS Atrac. Other devices not proprietary to Sony such as HDD players and MP3 players that used Atrac were completely absent from that negative statement.

Whether it is entirely true or not that MD and Atrac are to blame does not so much concern me as does the “perception” that MD and Atrac are the culprits. I think it is more accurate to state that Atrac alone and of itself is the reason for a great deal of Sony's loss of share in the portable music market.

In any light it does seem to cast some concern that the insistence from Sony to continue with MD is in someway responsible for the overall downward spiral of Sony’s Walkman line.

QUESTION: does anybody know Howard Stringer’s position on MD at Sony? Does he love the format, hate it?

That being said, I thought the MZ-S1 was going to be my last MD unit and that I would wait to see (beyond iPod and other HDD players) what the future held BUT I think the new HI-MD players are gorgeous and I will be one of the first in line to get one of the new units... and I'm in m forties. Just goes to show that you're never too old to try something entirely new! Take that demographics!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Andy Newbie

Andy

Posted
Posted

Big Shakeup at Sony: Various news sources report that CEO Nobuyuki Idei will likely be replaced by Howard Stringer. A Wall Street Journal piece adds this Minidisc related commentary: The Walkman group has suffered from a split between those who believe Sony should make its gadgets compatible with a wide range of popular services and technologies -- like the MP3 music-encoding system -- and those who push Sony's proprietary technology -- such as Minidiscs and the Atrac music-encoding system.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=1...efer=news_index

(extra emphasis by me)

Why can't they just make it compatible with both? Oh wait - that is what they are doing. What is the actual problem? As long as they make a reasonable user interface, the people using it shouldn't have to care about what formats they decide to use, they should just be able to put their music onto a disc, without caring about what format (within reason obviously) and it works. It really isn't a difficult concept, and implementation-wise, it shouldn't be too hard either - it wouldn't be innovative, because it is done by nearly every other player on the market.

Hopefully the new guy isn't an idiot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ghersh Newbie

ghersh

Posted
Posted

this is my perspective and probably the perpsective of many of those using MP3. I think minidisc is a great technology. Compact high-capacity re-writable and removable media, sort of one of a kind. ATRAC? well, it's Sony proprietory compression scheme, and I prefer to stick to the open standards such as MP3 and AAC, both are extensively developed by many companies, you really pick and choose you encoder. But that's beside the point. Suppose ATRAC is much better than either MP3 or AAC. I still wouldn't touch it with my bare hands for a very simple reason: you can't treat ATRAC file as a regular file. You can't simple move it between different devices. You have to jump thorugh the hoops using Sony-supplied software. And that *is* the major reason I just don't care about what Sony is doing. Even if Sony introduces native MP3 support, unless they make it clear you don't have to use their proprietory software to manipulate those file, I won't be interested, and I'm sure many other from MP3/AAC community won't be interested either. Those living in ATRAC ghetto simply don't know / don't understand / don't appreciate the advantages of using the encoders of your choice, and working with sound file as if it were just the regular files. And as to the open standard, look what's going on with AAC which is really hot. You have encoder from Apple (iTunes), you have encoder from Nero, or FAAC, and several other companies are jumping the badnwagon.

So: Sony should take their minidisc technology, add the native support for MP3 (yes, I did see the announcements that that's coming) and AAC, and give the user completely unrestricted means and ways to manipulate and move those files to/from their minidisc recorder/player.

Well, we'll see if it ever happens.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
dex Otaku Newbie

dex Otaku

Posted
Posted

ATRAC? well, it's Sony proprietory compression scheme, and I prefer to stick to the open standards such as MP3 and AAC, both are extensively developed by many companies, you really pick and choose you encoder.

Neither MP3 nor AAC are open standards. They both require liscensing to use, same as ATRAC/3/plus; the difference is that the MPEG offerings are ratified as international standards by a committee [the Moving Picture Experts Group] after being created by various corporations, whereas ATRAC/3/plus is ratified only by a single corporation.

OGG+Vorbis are currently the only widespread open standards I am aware of for audio containers and compression. [OGG as a container format, Vorbis as an audio compression codec.]

See here:

MP3 licensing

AAC licensing

Vorbis licensing

While you're there, this little tidbit is interesting too:

Fraunhofer/Thomson patents relating to ATRAC 3

But that's beside the point. Suppose ATRAC is much better than either MP3 or AAC. I still wouldn't touch it with my bare hands for a very simple reason: you can't treat ATRAC file as a regular file. You can't simple move it between different devices. You have to jump thorugh the hoops using Sony-supplied software. And that *is* the major reason I just don't care about what Sony is doing.

This is not the fault of ATRAC. ATRAC/3/plus are simply audio codecs, and are not actually dependent on any particular medium [including MD, HiMD, and SDDS film soundtracks], just as with any of the other codecs mentioned here.

The data is simply data.

The container it comes in is another matter. Sony have their commercial and corporate interests to protect, which is the real reason why you can't just manipulate ATRAC/3/plus tracks as files in the same way that you can with MP3 and the like:

Sony control both the container format and the stream format.

Those living in ATRAC ghetto simply don't know / don't understand / don't appreciate the advantages of using the encoders of your choice, and working with sound file as if it were just the regular files. 

I would assert, since Sony's target demographic for netMD and HiMD are people who want portable music players, that the majority of those people don't CARE what the codec is, as long as they can get their music from their CD to the computer to their player.

The codec is entirely irrelevant to them.

btw, in case it wasn't obvious, I'm agreeing with you.

It's when people realise the limitations imposed by Sony's DRM system [which has absolutely nothing to do with ATRAC/3/plus] that they get miffed and return the players.

And as to the open standard, look what's going on with AAC which is really hot. You have encoder from Apple (iTunes), you have encoder from Nero, or FAAC, and several other companies are jumping the badnwagon.

Again, AAC is not an open codec. Those companies pay for the right to make their own compliant codecs for the format.

So: Sony should take their minidisc technology, add the native support for MP3 (yes, I did see the announcements that that's coming) and AAC, and give the user completely unrestricted means and ways to manipulate and move those files to/from their minidisc recorder/player.

Again, I agree with you, but given Sony's conflicts of interest [between their electronics and entertainment divisions] and the increasing use of legislation by governments around the world to enforce the use of copyright-protection schemes, this is highly unlikely to happen - UNLESS the majority of consumers suddenly stand up and say, to both their government and the corporations making the equipment, that, "This is crap and we're not going to put up with it."

While I'd like to see that happen, it's doubtful that it ever will. People don't stand up for themselves and their fellows on far more important issues [such as human rights], so why would they with something that, in the end, is as insignificant as this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
S_732 Newbie

S_732

Posted
Posted

I'm not sure if theres something wrong with me or not but id prefer a player that only played atrac codecs rather than one that only played mp3 with all else being equal.

true sony could have made atrac into a file format such as mp3, wma, etc. but what interest is it of theirs to just replace a whole bunch of less efficient(quality per mb) mp3 files with their own atrac formats for a way of illegal music transfer? from this perspective it is in their interest to keep the illegal music scene using the least efficient format possible as to slow down the rate at which their products are illegally distributed. And do they really want the responsibility of strengthening the illegal music scene?

Even though this is true i believe that the entertainment side of sony has been leaning quite heavily on the electronics department and i wouldnt be surprised that the new management setup will remove some of the pressure put on the design/construction departments of sony electronics and maybe we'll see a greater increase in compatibility, which is what so many people seem to have been praying to the sony gods for such a long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Andy Newbie

Andy

Posted
Posted

I should probably point out that I don't necessarily think that the guy before was an idiot or anything else, I don't know any of these people, and the word "idiot" was probably not the best word to describe what I was hoping this guy isn't smile.gif. Basically, I hope that there will be some positive changes to the way Sony is run because of the change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
juepucta Newbie

juepucta

Posted
Posted

The Devil's in the details as they say. There's a distinct lack of the proverbial synergy inside Sony.

I've been saying this for a while now, but to give you one example, if Sony's divisions talked, either HiMD or UMD would have not been put out. One format would have been chose as the next step in the MD format. Make the units reverse compatible.

Hell, if all the PSP units that are going to be sold as soon as the device comes out in the US and Europe used HiMDs, the format would have extended its life, maybe come back strong.

As it is, HiMD will probably die real soon, taking with it the whoel MD format, while UMD will never really take off beyond being media for games.

Right now, they are marketing prerecorded UMDs exactly the same way they did prerecorded music MDs. We all rememebr how well that went. And this is a company that has vaults upon vaults of content - music and movies.

I am a faithful MD user, have been for more than 10 years now, but damn if Sony is always reacting too late to what happens in the electronics world instead of being proactive and trailblazing.

G.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jadeclaw Newbie

jadeclaw

Posted
Posted

Well then, one more reason to have never launched UMD and use HiMD for all new devices, PSP included.

G.

Well, that doesn't work.

Why? UMD discs can be produced using the same cheap methods used for prefab DVDs.

However, due to their sized and reversed rotation , they cannot be copied by Joe User.

On the other paw, HiMD discs cannot be prefabricated.

You have to make blanks and then copy the data onto them.

DWDD and CD-style pressing are perfectly incompatible.

And it is waaay too expensive. And the copying takes too long as well.

PSP is like the playstation - Playback only. And the content is mass produced.

So making the discs must be dirt cheap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bobdibest Newbie

bobdibest

Posted
Posted (edited)

There are a lot of posts on here, but what seems glaringly obvious and what I would do if I wanted to become a big time competitor in the portable audio market would be to make the whole walkman range compatible with WMA and WMA-encripted files directly so that online shops like mycokemusic.com and napster to go are compatible with walkmans, as well as sonys connect. Make it aac-compatible so that itunes works with walkmans and ur on a winner. The latter might not be possible but Sony does work closely with Microsoft so wma and encripted wma compatibility would be a step in the right direction. A player that is online store independant as opposed to one that only used that companies store, i.e. the ipod and the walkman range at present would sell in my opinion.

Secondly sony shot themselves in the foot by restricting MD liscencing technology and preventing other companies from making brandless mds without paying a fee etc etc. If a data md deck had turned up as a standard in all computers much like the dvd drives did MD would have replaced floppy discs and no doubt have slowed the cd-r/pen drive revolution. MDdata2 discs came out back when the only high density disc was an expensive zip disc! Maybe sony should take note, loss-leaders like that make formats successful. If Sony starting relations with dell/HP/Compaq etc to put a hi-md drive in all computers as a standard then Hi-md as a data format would take off incredibly fast, add mpeg support and you have a cheap portable film medium as well as music!

COME ON SONY GET TO IT!

and i have to agree, why one earth someone didnt realise that Hi-md could have been used in place of UMD in all PSPs so that prefabircated games and movies could be bought on the format as well as blanks for your own music/pictures/movies you have a format about to make a huge come back. Sony doesnt learn. pre-recorded MDs went no where as have SACDs. Im sure the UMD discs which have compressed films but sell at DVD prices will do the same thing! why buy them its a waste of money. Hi-MD and UMD should have been made to work in PSPs and new Hi-MD-walkmans so that the format could be furthered fastest. (Obviously a UMD game would not be expected to work in an md walkman but u get my point)!

Edited by bobdibest
Link to comment
Share on other sites
juepucta Newbie

juepucta

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, that doesn't work.

Why? UMD discs can be produced using the same cheap methods used for prefab DVDs.

However, due to their sized and reversed rotation , they cannot be copied by Joe User.

On the other paw, HiMD discs cannot be prefabricated.

You have to make blanks and then copy the data onto them.

DWDD and CD-style pressing are perfectly incompatible.

And it is waaay too expensive. And the copying takes too long as well.

PSP is like the playstation - Playback only. And the content is mass produced.

So making the discs must be dirt cheap.

I get what you mean but pre-recorded MDs were pressed too.

Imagine if you could put your MDs (all generations, SP, LP and/or Hi), pre-recorded or done by you at home into your PSP.

Unify the devices using that kind of media and reduce the number of conflicting formats. What if i put an old 1995 pre-recorded MD into my new kickass HiMD videocamera? Well, it should at least play the tunes.

One format, be it HiMD or recordable UMDs for camcorders, audiodevices, digicams or gaming devices.

That would even make it easier for them to develope a machine that groups some of those functions. Blur the lines and the target consumer groups that go with them.

G.

Edited by juepucta
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jadeclaw Newbie

jadeclaw

Posted
Posted

I get what you mean but pre-recorded MDs were pressed too.

Well, that would give you 290MBytes. A UMD-disc gives 1800MBytes.

And 1GByte HiMD is not possible as prefab.

Using one media type in as much devices as possible is always a good idea,

but sometimes it is simply not possible.

Plus, the decision do develop a new format is often enough money driven.

As it is in this case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...