hot~! battery and battery charger for HD5

[sade.duo]

OK, this is very hot for those who has HD5, and i am one of those.

I just figured out that the battery uses on sony ericsson v800 is able to be used on sony HD5, they do have the same aspect,and the specific on both of them are aliked.

Check this out:

battery uses on hd5: 3.7v 880mah lip 880pd

battery uses on v800: 3.6v 900mah bst-33

According to this, you are able to charge up the battery by using a battery charger, this is great.

I brought one battery and one battery charger through ebay for $13....

This is GREAT, now i can go camping with my hd5 without charging for as long as i want, just need to get more and more cheap batteries. =)

Now get yourself a hd5.

Edited October 31, 2005 by sade.duo

[Guest Stuge]

OK, this is very hot for those who has HD5, i am included.

I just figured out that the battery uses on sony ericsson v800 is able to be used on sony HD5, they do have the same aspect,and the specific on both of them are aliked.

check this out:

battery uses on hd5:  3.7v 880mah

battery uses on v800: 3.6v 900mah

←

The only difference b/w both the batteries is it self visible .AS u can see the current in Hd 5 battery is 880 milli ampere & current in v800 is 900milliampere.A difference of 20 miliampere which is quite a lot for ur delicate or sensitive items & it may simple blow ur device easily. Resistance for v800 battery is 0.4 ohm & it is about 0.42 ohm in hd5 battery.But i will still suggest anyone to ask sony technical person before using the battery of v800 (just a word of caution) .I think u have used that battery in ur nw-hd 5 device ,it might not have damage ur product now but in long run it might.

BUT THANX FOR TELLING US

[leonyuhanov]

if you do brake it, and take it to repair under warantee, replace the battery to the original. Once the sony guys look at it and find out you have been using the wrong battery they will kick you out the door!!

great discovery though!!

Leon

[sade.duo]

it's ok for me to try on this, cos i only spend $90 bucks on my hd5....and i don't know if it's still in warranty. =)

[Sp1n]

OK, this is very hot for those who has HD5, and i am one of those.

I just figured out that the battery uses on sony ericsson v800 is able to be used on sony HD5, they do have the same aspect,and the specific on both of them are aliked.

Check this out:

battery uses on hd5:  3.7v 880mah       lip 880pd

battery uses on v800: 3.6v 900mah      bst-33

According to this, you are able to charge up the battery by using a battery charger, this is great.

I brought one battery and one battery charger through ebay for $13....

This is GREAT, now i can go camping with my hd5 without charging for as long as i want, just need to get more and more cheap batteries. =)

Now get yourself a hd5.

←

it looks real cheap..gosh, like 3$ CA +13$ shipping.

btw, does it fit? did u try it already?

but it`s worth it!

Edited November 1, 2005 by Sp1n

[sade.duo]

i tried it on, it worked, as well as the original one..

[sokomind]

The only difference b/w both the batteries is it self visible .AS u can see the current in Hd 5 battery is 880 milli ampere & current in v800 is 900milliampere.A difference of 20 miliampere which is quite a lot for ur delicate or sensitive items & it may simple blow ur device easily. Resistance for v800 battery is 0.4 ohm & it is about 0.42 ohm in hd5 battery.But i will still suggest anyone to ask sony technical person before using the battery of v800 (just a word of caution) .I think u have used that battery in ur nw-hd 5 device ,it might not have damage ur product now but in long run it might.

BUT THANX FOR TELLING US

If you calculate R (ohm) from V=i r -it seems absolutly; you are in a big wrongness.

900 mAh is not the amper rate in a circuit. It is mA hour and means if you suck 900 mA from the battery it ends up in an hour so 900mA x 1 hour. It is not curreny, it is capacity. as amper is elctrons getting through over a time period and if you multiply it with time, you get electron capacity of battery again.

If fully charged 880Mah battery longs 20 hours, average suck of amper of hd5 is 44mili amper over an hour.

900mAh battery would probably long a bit more 20 hours at the same usage. (900mA*h/ (44mA)= 20h 27mins)

If can be produced, 1500mAh battery longs 34,1 hours.

"A difference of 20 miliampere which is quite a lot for ur delicate or sensitive items & it may simple blow ur device easily." is absolutly wrong

hd5 won't suck 64 even 664 miliamper for my examples.

Haven't you use AA AAA ni-cd or ni-mh batteries ever? for example if we use two 600mAh with a camera we can only shot 4 picture, 20 picture 1800mAh, 40picture 2600mAh. but camera is not broken down.

3.6 and the 3.7 volt is not important. a fully charged battery voltage is near 4,2V and empty one is 3,6V. Under 3,6 or 3,7 phones or players tell empty battery sign. It is the reason appearing of "charging" sign comes late with empty (quiet under 3,6v) batteries.

quick proof: http://www.24.se/pub_images/medium/v800_897.jpg Not org. battery 3.7V not 3.6 for v800

http://www.mytrendyphone.dk/images/425126.jpg 3.7v but not 900mAh battery for v800. they work on v800 different with 3,6 volt 900mAh

Thanks sade.duo . In Türkiye A battery of ipod is 110$, of hd 75$. orginal phone batteries are bw 20-35$

Edited November 22, 2006 by sokomind

[sokomind]

I bought a non original battery alike bst33: neopower 3.6V 650mAh. It fits and works.

If orginal battery longs 30 hours, that one must long about 22 hours. It is only 8 TL (Turkish Lira s) about 5.5$. One year warranty.

The important thing is not to forget making an outgrowt to this battery so that you can pull back it from inside the HD5. Otherwise ...

bst33 or alike batteries are compatible with Sony Ericsson Z610, K790, W300i, Z530i, V800, V800i, Z800. Telling to the salesman these models can be helpful.

Edited November 23, 2006 by sokomind

[skropp]

Can you charge the battery in the player or do you have to buy a special charger for the 900 mAh battery?

[sokomind]

sade.duo bought both battery and charger on e-bay. He can charge two batteries at the same time. Also he can easily charge orginal 880 and BST-33 inside HD5. Am I right, sade.duo?

For me, I charge my 650 and orginal 880 inside the player. they are like two AA batteries with 1800mAh and 2600mAh. Only make and capacities are different.

[skropp]

What I was thinking about was if the charging circuitry in the device was optimized for the included battery, so using a battery which may have a lower internal resistance results in too high charging currents and the possibility of thermal run-away. But I guess that this isn't a problem since all lithium-ion batteries are basic the same.

[sokomind]

Possible thought of coarse.

"too high charging currents"

I understand high ampers with that sentences. USB must give about 200mAh, charges 6-7 hours, AC Dc Adaptors give 450-550mAh, charges 2-3 hours. there is adaptors charging ni-mh 2600 AA batteries in an hour. that means That they have 2600mAh internal AC/DC. It is called rapidcharge and not advised doing always. only in emergancy. it decreases life time of battery.

Volt differences makes current. Lets think about charging circuit together with adaptor is suitable for 3.7 volt and we put inside a 3.6v battery. Is 3.6 volt battery overcharged?

absolutly NO. li ion batteries have a chip of resistance and thermostat prevent from overcharging. I measure full charged orginal battery volts 4.20V and my second 650 battrey 4.19V means they are nearer and same then expected as 3.6 and 3.7

I bought second battery because I do not want to use orginal while transferring tracks to my HD5. Because all type of batteries will loose power when operating and charging at the same time due to two way currency.

Also charging unit is not complecated in HD5, ones in mobile phones is what I see.

Edited November 24, 2006 by sokomind

[skropp]

I agree on what you're saying about built-in protection of the lithium-ion batteries, so thermal run-away might not be an issue. However, these protection ciruits are usually designed to cause permanent shut-down of the battery, making it useless.

About operating and charging at the same time, I don't think this will affect the battery much. Lithium-ion batteries are insensitive to cycling, but are sensitive to deap discharging and high temperatures. So it's better to charge/discharge them little but often.

[MDX-400]

What I was thinking about was if the charging circuitry in the device was optimized for the included battery, so using a battery which may have a lower internal resistance results in too high charging currents and the possibility of thermal run-away.

I agree on what you're saying about built-in protection of the lithium-ion batteries, so thermal run-away might not be an issue. However, these protection ciruits are usually designed to cause permanent shut-down of the battery, making it useless.

WTF? What's funny about this thread is that people keep presenting these huge misconceptions about batteries that are way out in left field and then sokomind keeps correcting people and then people manage to add more each time?!?!

First of all the 3.6V and 3.7V "difference" is no difference at all. Either is acceptable for an Li-Ion or Li-Ion-Poly cell, for what we call the nominal voltage. You must understand that if the OCV (open circuit voltage) of the cell is near that voltage, the device will usually not be able to run as the capacity of the battery will be exhausted... Yes that's right, if you see 3.7V or 3.6V as the OCV on a Li-Ion, that battery is most likely "run-down". All single-cell (or parallel combination batteries) that are Li-Ion will have a nominal voltage stated as being either 3.6V or 3.7V. The .1V difference is of no consequence at all.

Also I've never heard of protection circuits causing "pernanent shut-down" of the battery... How exactly would that be accomplished? It's true that some Li-Ion batteries (particularly when more than one cell is involved) have built-in ICs that communitcate with the charger. However that is designed to tell the device when to cut-off--I've never heard of one that could somehow cut off the battery's connection to the terminals permanently.

Also not every Li-Ion has such an IC in it, many do not and the charge/power control functions are all handled within the device. This is often (though perhaps not always) the case where the battery has only two terminals (+ and -) instead of 4 or more terminals (which most IC batteries would have). Most Li-Ion-Poly (pouch) batteries have no IC at all and even when cells are paralelled, the power control is performed by the device using the battery.

Anyway the end of all this goes like this... Both batteries in this situation will work and charge perfectly fine given the fact that it seems they are physically identical and both the same chemistry type and voltage (again the .1V is meaningless here). If the other battery is rated for 20mAh more, if that rating is truthful, it should last longer. However note those are also nominal or "typical" ratings as well. So you could have a battery rated for 880mAh which (when new) provides 920mAh in reality; at the same time one rated for 900mAh may only give 880mAh or similar. (Unless those are "minimum" ratings.) Again however, there should not be any problems with either. If there were, the device would refuse to charge and/or give an error message, which does not appear to be the case here...

[MDX-400]

I bought second battery because I do not want to use orginal while transferring tracks to my HD5. Because all type of batteries will loose power when operating and charging at the same time due to two way currency.

Usually, charging-while-playing does not function exactly as you describe. Think of the battery as the storage device in the circuit, then think of the unit's internal charging circuit as the power deliver/recharger. The battery is like a buffer of sorts... Just as in a car, however with a more advanced charge controller due to the difference in battery chemistry. So when you charge and play current is still going only one way however instead of having all the current go to charging the battery some (actually usually most) of the available current from the power supply goes to powering the unit. The excess current that doesn't need to be used to run the device will "go to" the battery, to charge it.

So it's not as if you were "powering the unit with the battery and charging the battery with the charger", rather you're both charging and powering the unit with the power supply but since there is a limit of current available, some goes to the device and the rest goes to up the storage level in the battery. So charging is slower that way.

The one thing that puts you at a disadvantage with doing this is that if the unit gets warmer that way so will the battery, and as we know Li-Ion degrades more over time with higher temperatures. Hence why laptop batteries fail relatively quickly--the temperature inside a laptop gets quite warm and leaving the battery in there, particularly when plugged into the wall outlet (when you don't need the battery) kills it faster. With a small portable audio device there is much less heat and the bttery probably won't get that warm; however it will be warmer than without being plugged in and will likely reduce it's overall life somewhat, if not to a large degree.

[skropp]

MDX-400:

Read this from Wikipedia:

"Li-ion chemistry is not safe as such, and a Li-ion cell requires several mandatory safety devices to be built in before it can be considered safe for use outside of a laboratory. These are: shut-down separator (for overtemperature), tear-away tab (for internal pressure), vent (pressure relief), thermal interrupt (overcurrent/overcharging)[4]. The devices take away useful space inside the cells, and add an additional layer of unreliability. Typically, their action is to permanently and irreversibly disable the cell."

Or this from Cadex Electronics Inc:

"Some lithium-ion batteries fail due to excessive low discharge. If discharged below 2.5 volts per cell, the internal safety circuit opens and the battery appears dead. A charge with the original charger is no longer possible. Some battery analyzers (Cadex) feature a boost function that reactivates the protection circuit of a failed battery and enables a recharge."

That's what I've based my statement on. I can not say if it applies to all lithium-ion batteries, or even if the info is correct, but it's not something I've made up myself. The reason I asked about this is that I wanted to know if anyone has had any problems with non-sony batteries.

But anyway, thanks for your feedback.

[MDX-400]

That's what I've based my statement on. I can not say if it applies to all lithium-ion batteries, or even if the info is correct, but it's not something I've made up myself. The reason I asked about this is that I wanted to know if anyone has had any problems with non-sony batteries.

But anyway, thanks for your feedback.

The information is correct yes, but again I don't think this is the case with all Li-Ion cells/batteries. Still what you're showing is examples of where the battery is subjected to things such as over-current, over-temperature or overly deep discharge. None of these relate to charging or using a nearly identical battery in the HD5. In fact there are probably normal production differences that are larger/the same between two LIP-880s as there are with one LIP-880 and one of the BST-33s. Since they don't relate to anything we're discussing here (using a BST-33 in an HD5) what's the point of mentioning them?

Believe me it's not a big deal. Li-Ion differences and tolerances were quite crucial way back in the day when Li-Ions were first being used in consumer devices. Then the batteries and electronics were relatively expensive and they were only used in certain electronics. Now the technology is quite cheap and tons of manufacturers are making Li-Ion batteries and chargers--it's definitely nothing special or delicate in this day and age. Furthermore the batteries of today are higher quality overall, more reliable, and far less susceptible to charger and device differences.

Even if the battery stops working you lost what? $10? Not really that big a deal. Plus it isn't like there aren't high quality BST-33s out there either--you could always buy a genuine OE one as well. Might not be any cheaper than the LIP-880 but it's probably easier to find I'd imagine. The bottom line is the batteries are pretty much the same and they're safe to use either way (LIP-880 in the BST-33 charger/device and vice versa). Talking about a difference in rated capacity of a mere 20mAh and an accepted difference in nominal voltage specification thinking those things are going to cause something catostrophic to happen is pretty over the top if you ask me. Again normal production differences are probably larger than that in different batches of the same battery model, so there's nothing to worry about.

[sokomind]

I'm studying mechanical not electronical but what I tried to tell is that "The bottom line is the batteries are pretty much the same and they're safe to use" as you say.

I look my 650 battery manifacturer's site and as skropp said it has "These are: shut-down separator (for overtemperature), tear-away tab (for internal pressure), vent (pressure relief), thermal interrupt (overcurrent/overcharging)".

And One more thing I don't think HD5 calculates and decides charching operations as it has two poles (no way to batteries 3rd terminal).