Final Fantasy Hartford Symphony

[Arakias]

So on Friday I went to see the Hartford Symphony perform Dear Friends: Music from Final Fantasy (Video game for those that dont know).

It was an excellent show, I missed the first song and didnt get to set up recording till partly into the third song so thats incomplete. I basically clipped the mics to the open zipper of my sweatshirt, too close of course, but I was more toward the right of the theater than the middle.

The crowd was loud and overwhelming but I edited the files in Cool Edit to clean it up and to amplify it a little. Also one or two songs had a flamenco guitarist and I think his playing distorted some of the recording. Ah well, first try, so here are the details

Ok, my setup was simply SP-BMC-03 -- RH10, I didnt have a volume attenuator (didnt seem to need it in the end) but I had asked at Radio Shack and they didnt have that (maybe the guy didnt know, if someone wants to reply that they do still have them?).

Also it was my first recording, had the mics in hand for only 24 hours prior. I adjusted the MIC level at some points during the show cause I thought it was too high/low, so my files are a little different but never changed it by too much in either direction. So I had it around 12 +- 2 I believe. Some people post /30 but I dont know what that means (unless its out of, but I didnt go that high).

I am gonna post 3 small files, one of a Final Fantasy theme both edited and unedited and then the final song, One Winged Angel edited. This was the only song with vocals and its a not as overblown as the flamenco ones (prob because I had turned down the REC level).

Anyways, Im completely new to this, so if anyone has any comments good or bad, I'd love to hear it as this forum seems an excellent outlet.

[attachmentid=295][attachmentid=296][attachmentid=297]

PS - Does Global Space mean my personal space or that accessible to the whole site?

Final_Fantasy_Sample.mp3

Final_Fantasy_Sample_Edited.mp3

One_Winged_Angel_Sample_Edit.mp3

Edited May 22, 2005 by Arakias

[leaf]

Thanks for recording this!

it sounds great, I was having a problem with stereo separation, but it's this laptop's fault

Once you finish mastering it please post the whole thing!

[A440]

I can't seem to download your attachments for the moment, but I'll try it again later.

Were you using Manual Volume? I don't know what the display reads on the RH10, but when you are using Manual Volume on the NHF800 it always reads x/30. Maybe it's different on the RH10.

Radio Shack doesn't call it an attenuator: It's a Headphone Volume Control, and it looks exactly like the gizmo under my signature. There's no reason to add it unless you're overloading.

[greenmachine]

There's no reason to add it unless you're overloading.

...and can't reduce/eliminate it by adjusting the levels and the hi/low sensitivity setting on the recorder.

[Arakias]

Leaf - I've "mastered" all I have, but wouldnt know where to post it all, (76 megs as MP3 or 560 as WAV)

A440 - I was using Manual Volume through MIC IN.

and Green Machine - I should ask, so a volume attenuator isnt useful to (in the future) reduce just the bass frequencies? I would have to have a battery box? I am aware of this thread here of course: (thread)

I'm just not quite familiar with all the technology options/nuances to recording.

Thanks for your posts!

[greenmachine]

Regarding your editing / mastering skills:

You seem to have boosted the whole thing by about 10 dB by using some kind of limiter / dynamics compressor to achieve a higher overall loudness - besides the fact that compressed dynamics of accoustical instruments / orchestral recordings in general sound unenjoyable to me, there are some other serious drawbacks:

Since your left and right channel don't match in volume, caused by your recording position / mic placement (and maybe to some extent by the matching tolerance of the two mic capsules), you were compressing the louder (left) channel more than the other one, which sounds strange to me. Also you've introduced clipping at the loudest position (seconds 53 to 56 of the edited file). A simple normalization would propably have done the job in this case without sacrificing sound quality.

The abrupt cut of the applause is annoying, maybe you could have faded it out gently.

By the way, paradoxically the applause sounds far more realistic and involving than the music itself, maybe you've been too far away from the source.

[greenmachine]

and Green Machine - I should ask, so a volume attenuator isnt useful to (in the future) reduce just the bass frequencies? I would have to have a battery box?

Neither one of those reduces a limited frequency range exclusively (unless a 'battery box' has a built-in filter, be it selectable or fixed), but rather the whole spectrum (if used properly). I wouldn' t cut off frequencies selectively anyway, rather do some equalization afterwards if unavoidably necessary.

[Arakias]

You're correct that I just boosted the decibel level. During my editing process, I thought I should just cut out the excessive crowd noises and then maybe normalize it, but I was mostly done so I just went ahead and completed it the way you mention.

In regards to the Mic placement, I basically only had them about a foot apart (I didnt discern between right and left placement because I was trying to be "stealthy") but I was at the right side of the hall close to the front so I figured it didnt matter.

As for the the abrupt applause end, that wasnt the last song, so I had left it running (thats where I would have put a mark) but thanks for the idea of just fading out, though in the edits I had been removing as much applause as possible. As for the applause sounding more realistic, thats funny that you say that as it was loud in there, maybe I will keep it in during another re-edit. (I have the original WAVs of course).

Also, as you've been quite helpful already, during a show you are recording, you dont do any bass-rolloff or whatever? You just adjust the Recording level lower as to not overload? I'm curious to know just cause then I wont have to buy anything additional.

Thanks again.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Arakias

[greenmachine]

Also, as you've been quite helpful already, during a show you are recording, you dont do any bass-rolloff or whatever? You just adjust the Recording level lower as to not overload? I'm curious to know just cause then I wont have to buy anything additional.

No, i don't roll off anything, i try to capture the sound as close as possible to 'as heard' and do adjustments afterwards if necessary. For quiet to medium sounds i use the built-in preamp of the md unit (virtually always low sensitivity setting - the high sensitivity setting seems dispensable for sensitive microphones), for loud to very loud situations a self-made 'battery box' (without bass-rolloff) and line-in. I've never experienced any distortion with this setup even at bass-heavy, ear-damaging indoor rock concert levels. The cheaper attenuator may work for medium to loud sounds, but failed to do it's job at extreme levels.

You might want to take a look at my live recordings gallery and compare the m/a (music to applause) ratio ( ) to your recordings to get a rough idea of what i consider to be very loud.

To be fair, i have to admit that i use modified microphones, no idea if yours can handle such levels.

Edited May 22, 2005 by greenmachine

[A440]

The fundamental idea is to get as much of the original sound as you can and do as little to it as possible. If you get a clear recording with a pair of good microphones straight into mic-in, that is absolutely all you need. Fixing something afterward is always the second choice.

Then why are so many other gadgets for sale? Because the built-in MD preamps behind the Mic-in jack have some limitations: (A) and ( B )

A) MD preamps can't handle a lot of bass. So you have three choices: (1) lower the whole signal going in equally, (2) Get a battery box and go through line-in, bypassing the preamp or (3) get rid of the troublesome bass and go through mic-in.

(1) Attenuator: attenuates or lowers the incoming signal. Upside: it works for all but the most deafening music. Downside: it lowers the amount of power going to the mic and may limit the mic's dynamic range. If the music is extremely loud, which is to say jet-engine or hip-hop club loud, then the mic may overload because it's getting less power.

(2) Battery box. Gives the mic extra power, allowing it to handle louder sounds and a fuller dynamic range. Can run through Line-in. Downside: a considerably quieter recording, which may have to be artificially boosted afterward. Also another box to carry, another connection to go wrong.

(3) Bass roll-off. Eliminates or severely lowers the amount of bass going in. Upside is that the preamp is less likely to overload. Downside is that the bass is gone forever and the music sounds tinny.

Want to hear bass roll-off messing things up? Listen to the B-52's minus their rhythm section: http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs...eo1.htm#samples

Kind of like chopping off your feet at the ankles to get through a low doorway, when you could simply bend your knees. If your recording isn't overloaded but you think it has too much bass, you are much better off using an equalizer afterward to adjust it. (Also, it's not called bass roll-off, but some mics--little Sonys in particular--only go down to 100 Hz, effectively eliminating 20Hz-100Hz, the bass register. Makes the MDs overload less often, but at the direct expense of fidelity.)

( B ) The built-in mic preamp is also a little noisy. It's negligible for loud sounds but not for quiet ones. For the cleanest recording of quiet sounds, get an outboard preamp. (Most preamps now also include a battery box to power the mic. But battery boxes do not necessarily include preamps.)

[Arakias]

Its gonna bump this up big, but just want to say thanks to all.