Net Md/mdlp Recording And Sound Quality

[MiniDiscCoolYay]

I haven't been on this forum in a long while but I have still been using my MZ-S1 player and still love MiniDisc, thus...I post.

O.k here's my post and I hope it fits in this area of the forums. I've been reading up on LP4 LP2 SP etc...Yesterday, I was looking at my MZ-S1 user manual. It told me that transfers from computer to my player can only give me LP2 or LP4 quality. (NOTE: I swear I had seen SP as an option in SimpleBurner a while ago). Until that point I've always recorded in LP2. However, I decided to try recording from a portable CD player to my MiniDisc player. I used a Panasonic portable cd player (don't know if the brand/model matters) and a gold plated optical cable (not an "optical plug" which the user manual said I could also use). I recorded 3 songs off of Filter's "Amalgamut" album. I chose that album because of the sound effects used in the songs and because I am a Filter fan (you can find these at your hardware store among other tools). Anyway, the recording was in real time and took a while. However, I've noticed a difference in sound quality from LP2. I am impressed. Oh by the way, my headphones are Senns (MX400). I should also note that when I recorded, I put 3 songs in the memory function on the cd player so it would only play those 3 songs. The thing is, there wasn't a pause long enough between the songs with that function so no track marks were made. They were all one big track. I had to put in the track marks later. I thought people should know that in case they use that function. My player also (for some reason) did not stop recording when the cd player stopped. The user manual said it would. Shame on it.

Anyway, my user manual says that recording from the source the way I did using an optical cable, gives me something called "Type-R" sound. Apparently, this is closest to MiniDisc decks quality. How close is "Type-R" to SP? How good is the quality of my recording? That/those is my questions.

And finally, I want to give a shout outs to all my brothers and sisters of the MiniDisc persuasion. Let's keep it alive in '05. Peace out.

Edited July 19, 2005 by MiniDiscCoolYay

[KJ_Palmer]

Type-R recorded via optical cable is true SP. I haven't done any comparisons between portable and deck as I do all my SP recording via a deck, but I'm pretty sure the quality would be very similar, and probably indistuinguishable. Maybe someone else can be more definitive...

[greenmachine]

First, let me give you an overview over the available recording modes and bitrates:

SP --- 292 kbps -- 80 min/disc - highest quality

LP2 -- 132 kbps - 160 min/disc - medium quality

LP4 --- 66 kbps - 320 min/disc - low quality

MONO - 146 kbps - 160 min/disc - one channel only, high quality

There is / was an option to transfer SP from the computer indeed - but it's not the real SP quality, it's said to be more like a bloated LP2 encoded track. Others often refer to it as 'fake SP'.

As you may or may not know, only realtime recording from the line- or optical input will give you the benefit of real SP quality.

An article about the soundquality of SP can be found here:

http://www.minidisc.org/near_cd.html

Generally speaking, the more recent ATRAC versions from 3.5 onwards, including Type-R should be very close to or indistinguishable from uncompressed CD quality unless you have a very sensitive and trained hearing.

ATRAC has been tuned during the years through versions 1, 2, 3, 3.5, 4, 4.5 and finally reached 'Type-R'.

http://www.minidisc.org/faq_sec_4.html#Q9

There's also 'Type-S', but has no benefit for the highest quality setting (SP):

"ATRAC Type-S is just a combined, one-chip DSP for the ATRAC Type-R codec used for SP mode and the ATRAC3 codec used for MDLP modes. Supposedly, Type-S increases the SNR of LP2 and LP4 encodings by 6dB upon playback, but doesn't offer any improvement for SP encodings."

About the automatic track marks and auto stop:

You need to enable synchro-recording in order to work (see page 19 of the user manual)

About the cable: Are you sure you're using an optical cable? I see no reason to gold plate such a cable.

By the way, sorry for gazing at your avatar for an extended time, but Natalie's just too beautiful for this world.

[ROMBUSTERS]

even with the dawn of HiMD many members of this bored would rate the Type-R SP codec of higher quality than it's HiMD replacement Atrac3+ 256kbps. This is because it has been so finely tuned over the years and has a more... warm feeling to it.

[MiniDiscCoolYay]

First off, thank you for the help, I appreciate it. I'm glad to hear "Type-R" is in fact, high quality.

About the automatic track marks and auto stop:

You need to enable synchro-recording in order to work (see page 19 of the user manual)

Yes I believe you're right, I'm not sure I had set the synchro recording.

About the cable: Are you sure you're using an optical cable? I see no reason to gold plate such a cable.

Well I think it's an optical cable however, I'm not sure about this. All I know is that the cable fits in the cd player and minidisc player and that really doesn't say anything about it being an optical cable!!! I'm going to go take a look at what one looks like at Radio Shack or something.

By the way, sorry for gazing at your avatar for an extended time, but Natalie's just too beautiful for this world.

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[MiniDiscCoolYay]

This reply is to K.J Palmer-I'm not sure if that is noted when I post so I'm mentioning it.

Thank you for the help. Now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get a CD/MD deck because I imagine recording is much easier. I wonder though, if the track labeling is done automatically with a deck? Is that even possible?

[MiniDiscCoolYay]

Thank you for the help. It's good to hear that "Type-R" is high quality. Hey that's a cool pun.

[KJ_Palmer]

This reply is to K.J Palmer-I'm not sure if that is noted when I post so I'm mentioning it.

Thank you for the help. Now I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get a CD/MD deck because I imagine recording is much easier. I wonder though, if the track labeling is done automatically with a deck? Is that even possible?

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If you get a Sony CD/MD deck, like the DX400 or a bookshelf unit like the CMT-M333NT, any CD-Text is copied over to MD automatically, as long as the CD is SCMS free. However that's unlikely unless you make your own CD-R's and title them yourself. In many ways, for titling you're better off doing it with Sonicstage, though you can still record the high quality SP with a deck in realtime. That's generally how I do MD titling these days...

[MiniDiscCoolYay]

K.J, do you mean that most cd's are SCMS free or that the only SCMS free cd's are cd-r's. Sorry, I misunderstand. Also, I have done some titling using my MZ-S1 player but Sonicstage is better, it's true.

[KJ_Palmer]

Well, most CDs from shops are SCMS free (new ones increasingly have copy protection though), but most also don't contain CD text. So there usually is no text from commercial CD's to transfer in a CD-MD deck.

If you burn your own CD-R's on a PC with CD text that a CD-MD deck can display, you would be able to transfer that text at the same time as copying. However, and my point was that that's a lot of palaver, and you may just want to record your CD's to MD in real time/type-R and just title them afterwards using Sonicstage/Simpleburner...

[1kyle]

Well, most CDs from shops are SCMS free (new ones increasingly have copy protection though), but most also don't contain CD text. So there usually is no text from commercial CD's to transfer in a CD-MD deck.

If you burn your own CD-R's on a PC with CD text that a CD-MD deck can display, you would be able to transfer that text at the same time as copying. However, and my point was that that's a lot of palaver, and you may just want to record your CD's to MD in real time/type-R and  just title them afterwards using Sonicstage/Simpleburner...

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Getting CD info from Sonic stage is actually a good way -- it's about the only thing I use Sonic Stage for these days.

I grab the CD info (via Gracenote CDDB or whatever) and then cut and paste this stuff into an EXCEL spreadsheet.

I then print out the spreadsheet and type the data in with the computer keyboard input on my JDB-980 deck --It's a nice feature being able to use a keyboard without having to have the computer plugged into the unit.

You can always retrieve the CD information from Gracenote --even from those "Abominations" called Copy protected CD's --which I would never buy in any case.

Cheers

-K

[atrain]

I grab the CD info (via Gracenote CDDB or whatever) and then cut and paste this stuff into an EXCEL spreadsheet.

I then print out the spreadsheet and type the data in with the computer keyboard input on my JDB-980 deck --It's a nice feature being able to use a keyboard without having to have the computer plugged into the unit.

Cheers

-K

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would it not be easier to copy/paste to the md its self in sonic stage? if you must copy optically, say for sp, you can still title in sonicstage or simple burner.