Why buy a new sony DAP over an iPod

[lamewing]

Guys and gals,

I have been reading and rereading the comments regarding the Sony HDD DAPs and flash-based players - particularly in regards to the new "Connect" software. I am really confused as to what Sony is trying to accomplish here. Why are they even still trying to compete in this market? It seems that Sony isn't at all serious about competing with Apple in any way. Perhaps I am missinng something, and if I am, feel free to comment.

Sony has been slow on the draw regarding the DAP compared to Apple. I guess they thought they could survive on the Sony name alone. /sigh In the last couple of years they have created the HD1, HD2, HD3, HD5, and the Pocket Vaio - not to mention the numerous attempts at flash players. The HD1/2 were of one design, the HD3 a modification of the HD1/2, and the HD5 was an entirely new design. NOW, we have the A3000/A1200(japan only)/A1000, which are yet ANOTHER new design.

All the while, Apple has created a DAP that has backward compatibility (except that 1st/2nd gen are orphaned from the new accessories due to a lack of a dock connector) across the board with iTunes. Also, the iPod has kept the same naming convention, which is very simple...iPod + size/type. That is it, simplicity at its finest.

Now Sony goes with this Network Walkman idea, but uses arcane names like NW-HD1, etc and now Sony Walkman A3000. This numbers mean nothing to the consumer and don't follow any real pattern (when you look at all the units designed by Sony). The numbers on the new units make no sense either...A3000 = 30 GB. A1000/A1200 = 10GB/12GB NO! The flash players are just a bad in this regard. A608??? /sigh

Putting all of this aside, Sony has stated that they are making a comeback with their new Walkmans. Well, how do they plan on doing this when their units (while sounding good) are SEVERLY crippled by the very software NEEDED to transfer music to the player? Okay, every software goes through beta testing, but WHY would they want to damage their reputatoin any more than it already is by releasing this product so early, other than to gain end of the year sales? Do they feel that they are so far behind Apple (once again) that they must release now and fix the software later? If that is the case, then they are just repeating their problems over and over again.

Okay, I can understand why folks buy MD units; they need to record music, sounds, radio, etc at a good quality. Therefore they are held hostage to Sony's SonicStage if they want to use software at all. At least they can use their recorders without ever touching a computer (even thought HiMD is marketed to PC use). Speaking of PC use, what is wrong with Sony NOT providing Mac OS X support. They seem so inept with PC programming, should we expect worse with OS X? You would think that they would want to open up the market to as many folks as possible; Apple did (no Linux though). Is Sony afraid that the Mac folks would just tear them to shreds over their terrible software?

Now, while I can understand the folks who purchase MD (I just sold my last three HiMD units last week). I cannot for the life of me understand why the DAP folks are still supporting Sony. Sure, Sony can make good hardware, but it looks as if Sony just has no concerns about their customers, much less concern about providing solid support for those products.

What is keeping Sony from just allowing drag-and-drop? Cowon of Korea does it. Other companines do it. I LOVE the ability to drag and drop my files directly the my X5L and A2; no software needed. Just drag/drop/play. Plus I can copy them back off at any time. Some folks (and Sony) scream piracy. Whatever. The A series (and some of the earlier models) could be used as a mass storage device, so they are just as apt to be used for piracy...eg not hardly at all. The real piracy doesn't take place in our homes and offices, but is instead big business overseas. Is the reliance on transfer software still based on their reliance on ATRAC??? Can't ATRAC be used in a drag and drop manner or is the DRM just too restrictive?

Instead of giving true drag/drop, they force a new version of transfer software on us. Software that isn't even useable. The many reports on this site indicate this. Now, sure, Sony may (and proabably) will, improve the software. BUT at what cost to their reputation and the reputation of the new DAPS? Was it worth putting the product to market before it was ready?

After all of this, I guess my question is this, "Why are you folks buying these products when they have so many issues?"

Does the Sony name mean that much to you? I admit it used to mean a great deal to me, but after the problems with the 1st and 2nd gen HiMD units, the issues with HD series DAPs, their lack of decent software, the root kit issue with some of their music CDs, the abandonment of support for those PS2 Hard Drive owners, etc. I just don't know if Sony is worth trusting any more.

What do they offer over the others? Better sound quality? There are other players out there with excellent sound quality. I don't think the iPod sounds as good (the 1st/2nd gen sounded better) as the Sony's, but for a portable, it really doesn't matter if one unit can produce sound quality that only an audiophile will appreciate versus something a tad bit less.

Aside from my rant, I would love to know why folks still are willing to deal with the crap that Sony is shoving down our throats.

PLEASE, no flames. If you aren't happy with what I wrote, just follow the old saying, "if you have nothing nice to say...."

Edited November 30, 2005 by lamewing

[jshaw300]

1. I didn't want an iPod because everyone has one.

2. I really liked the look of the new Sony (I got the silver A1000), and that is my most honest, main reason.

3. The longer battery life.

4. I had an ipod mini for a while but whilst I liked a lot of things about it, I didn't get on that well with the click-wheel - things like volume control, having to go through the whole library etc.

5. Greater file support.

6. I liked the intelligent shuffle features...

To my ear, the sony sounds better than an ipod, especially when I use my own custom eq. This is just my own personal taste.

The software was very bad, but the new updates have made it a lot better and they look like they will keep pumping them out - which suggests a level of support and commitment. I have already experienced this with my PSP. Regular updates that are genuinely worth having.

That's it!

[Tetsugaku-San]

Well let's see, ( I can apreciate your point of view, honest)

Everyone has an iSheep - why on earth would I want one of them? They aren't a status symbol like they used to be.

Walkman is a brand as it is, and is bigger than iPod, just under used

NW-A1000/3000 is out in the UK before Japan

Connect does suck, but will be patched before worldwide release and does have drag and drop

Sound quality on Sony gear far exceeds that of the iSheep. No one else has it this good except maybe iRiver and you can't buy them for love or money.

Sony don't support Macs because macs have a 3% market share, and everyone using a mac will unsurprisingly buy an iSheep.

Main reason why Sony were so far behind the game is because unlike Apple, they make content (Music and film) as well as hardware. There is well documented evidence of the internal Civil War at Sony over the hardware people (Japan) who could beat Apple senseless with the soggy ends of their ripped off arms, and the content people (US) who want the internet and file sharing not to exist.

here for more: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.02/sony.html

[Ascariss]

Market share for mac OS X was mentioned so I won't go into that.

Next, too many people have them, plus they don't look all that good, more or less all the same. The white colour isn't all that attractive.

Scratches, ahh yes, the friend of the Ipod. Unlike ipods, most sony products are made with better quality and although still scratch indef in the long run, they are much more resistant to wear and tear than ipods. I saw a guy this morning on the bus with a nano, sure its small and all, but the screen was rather badly scratched, and I could see it half a meter sitting away from him

Sound quality that play a major role sadly. I've heard the ipods and I can say I couldn't live with one. The sony on the other hand has a crisp pure sound which is better than even my MD.

Drag and drop exists in the connet player, how do you think I got the songs onto my player? you don't need to use atrac, and mp3 works just fine. All the functions off the A series work witht mp3s as far as I know, ie like the shuffle, EQ and etc.

battery life is important to me. Next, you can remove the battery in the A series yourself, and get it replaced. Don't you void your warrenty when you open your own ipod?

As for the other players on the market? most have't been in the music business that long or ever. Perhaps if Panasonic made something better than the ipod, or perhaps, even sharp, I am sure it would sound better than the ipod.

The Connect software has its problems, but for me, it works fine and I am able to transfer music no problem. where the CP lags, the player makes up more than the rest of the distance.

I really could't care less about the name of it, it's a Walkman to me.

I see it this way, why buy something everyone else has? be original.

[Dinko]

After all of this, I guess my question is this, "Why are you folks buying these products when they have so many issues?"

Does the Sony name mean that much to you?

What do they offer over the others? Better sound quality? There are other players out there with excellent sound quality.

Well... I don't particularly care about iPods. For one thing, downloading legal files is restricted to AAC and iTMS. Not much better than ATRAC & CONNECT Store. For another, I can't stand iTunes. I find it ugly and unintuitive. So there goes the iPod.

As for the rest...

Generally speaking about electronics:

For years, I've been happy with Sony products. There were some lame ones. But I figured a way to avoid crappy Sony products and stick to the higher quality ones. I won't go in the details, because it's been covered elsewhere, and Kurisu's right (in another thread) that it might offend some people.

All in all, comparing what was offered by a Sony product and a similar product from another manufacturer, the Sony product was always closer to what I wanted or needed.

Specifically regarding digital audio players:

- I liked Sony designs much more than other manufacturers. HD1, E99, E407, A1000... all looked better to me than iPod, Toshiba, RCA, Creative, Cowon, Samsung (some exceptions here), or others.

- Battery life. This is the one most important factor for me. I don't care if you can put 1000 hours of music on your iPod or Gigabeat. When your battery keeps you a slave to the power outlet, it's not much of a portable player. Sony players generally do better than the industry average.

- Sound quality of ATRAC vs. everything else. I still find ATRAC sounds best among the major formats (AAC, mp3, WMA). It might be because I listen to orchestral music a lot of the time (soundtracks, classical, other). But AAC sounds thin and one-dimensional. mp3 has artifacts. WMA sounds compressed. ATRAC at 132kbps is the closest to the original source relative to mp3, wma or aac at 128kbps.

- Sony points. Buy stuff on your Sony card all year long, get points, redeem for Sony products. Wipes out the premium for the Sony brand, and you can get all sorts of cool gadgets at a very low price.

- SonicStage. Sure it's slow. But I love the UI. I find it to be the most intuitive UI around. Much easier to navigate and find your way around than WMP, RealPlayer, iTunes, Winamp or others. Stuff to transfer on the left. Location to transfer the stuff to on the right. Big red/orange arrow to hit when you're ready to transfer. Easy tag editing. Divide/Combine tracks function.

- Group Folders: I found them very convenient as opposed to playlists.

Now, that was then (2 weeks ago). This is now:

- I've been fighting with CONNECT since Saturday. I finally got it to upgrade to the latest Canadian version, but it's not the latest version of CONNECT. It's slow, and it's still buggy, but many of my original complaints are resolved. Still, I've spent hours on trying to upgrade it, uninstalling, reinstalling, rebooting, talking with Sony people...

- I find the A1000 to hardly be the intuitive and easy to navigate player that most people find it to be. Moving around files can be messy. Everything is in alphabetical order. I'm used to using a four-direction button for moving around menus. The buttons feel weird and too firm. The A1000 relies a lot on the "BACK" button. Takes some getting used to, but it's a useless function when it could have been achieved with the standard four-way button pushing.

- Group Folders: I miss those. The A1000 doesn't have them, and it's a pain. Transferring files to groups and between groups, moving groups around... it was all so easy on minidisc/previous NW series. Now, I have to think about what I want in a playlist, and I have to create the playlist, then I have to transfer the playlist to the device. Takes ten times longer than taking a track from the SonicStage library, dragging it to the group folder on the ATRAC device and dropping right where you want it in between two other songs. Nor can you just create a new group/playlist on the A1000 device and suddenly add files to it.

- SACD: Sony messed up SACD like they messed up minidisc. Little support, little marketing. Sony Music never liked it and did everything they could to make sure it didn't succeed. They released regular CD versions, then months later released the SACD version at twice the price, and only playable on SACD players. Meanwhile, other labels were releasing titles in the Hybrid SACD format: playable on all CD players, for the same price as the CD version, or only slightly more expensive. Without Sony's support SACD couldn't really go far. Classical labels are still releasing on the format, but it's not going anywhere. Some classical labels are abandonning DSD and using only PCM, which certainly questions the whole point of the procedure.

- Citibank to MBNA: Sony Canada is moving its Sony Card from Citibank (a financial empire I've never had a single problem with) to MBNA (a financial empire which I've had nothing but problems with). Suffice it say, I'm cancelling my Sony Card.

- The Samsung Experience. I laughed when the articles started pouring in that Samsung was the new Sony. Once again, I laughed prematurely. I've already mentioned this twice, so I won't go in details, but recent experience with the Samsung T8 media player has proven to be a signficantly more gratifying experience than what's been going on with Sony players. Sure mp3 and WMA still suck and the Samsung doesn't support ATRAC. But at least it's easy to use, and it's jampacked with useful features (FM radio, FM recording, line-in recording in particular).

---

I guess the A1000 was the ultimate trial I was waiting for after many dissappointments. It was pass or fail for Sony. From my perspective, it was a failure. Consumer loyalty can only go so far in the face of such a pathetic product and customer service breakdown. The Sony brand used to mean a lot. "It's a Sony" was sufficient to convince me. Now, I spend my time making fun of "like.no.other"

Too bad. Maybe in a few years, when (or if!) they get their act together, we'll be having a follow-up discussion on this topic.

[Guest Stuge]

Honestly saying it doesn’t matter to whether everybody has same (I-pod or any other player) thing or not. Most important thing is technology which really matters.

I don’t like I-pod because it is easily scratch able & because of poor battery life .I don’t like scratches on my things at all .Color screen that I really like but it seams that it sucks a battery a lot. Many of my friends have I-pods but it doesn’t look that a sturdy player .I really agree that I-pod has Anemic bass that but Eq setting of Sony is better.

I`M QUITE SURE THAT “Connect” will be useable in few days after that Major update.

Design wise: I like Sony designs a lot.

NEW DESIGNS LOOKS REALLY GREAT.I know that NW-A3000 is Dinosaur that they made respect to there previous models but still it looks great

Sony Flash based models have already taken over I-pod screen less shuffle & other players.

They are Sexy,Glittering & really great

thats it

THE END

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[atrain]

i dont like itunes at all & for me sonicstage hasn't crashed or needed a reinstall since 2.2 unlike itunes.

i prefer the hardware by sony, esp. battery life & the vaio pocket screen, prefer battery life over amp power as i only own efficient-ish phones.

my ipod has been returned 5 times now in 7 months, my vaio pocket has only ever crashed once & a paperclip reset fixed it without losing the data on the portable.

the second last time i returned the ipod it'd crashed whilst connected to my pc, shorted out a usb port, crashed the hard disk on both the pc & the ipod. not much fun there.

if i didn't like the atrac sound & the design ethos of sony i'd switch to either an irver u10 or something similar.

[mercury_in_flames]

Well,where to start I got a sony hd5 specifically so that i could call the competition Ipoo, Iposer, Isuck, Isheep (j/k)

The truth is that i do like the sony sound. Ive heard an ipod mini and i just asked, wheres the bass and e.q? The click wheel, and all the extra 3rd party gadgets out there are pretty cool, but other than that I am happy with my hd5.

It's been said already probably, but for me, its the (poor) battery life, scratchability-even from plastic jelly cases, internal battery, 'poser' appeal in the sense that theres a devide between ipod and non ipod owners. Heck, even I say noooo another ipod, haha. And just to repeat myself, I love my hd5 because:

-It doesnt scratch unless you take something sharp like a pin or something abbrasive to it

-has a good battery life (stated 40 hours so about 25 hours or so)

-has the rm-mc40elk remote so that i can keep my hd5 in my pocket

-uses the same bit rate as my net minidisc so i only have to rip one file for both md and hd5

-has a removeable battery (so no sending it off, I can just buy a battery right now for example-before-my battery dies out)

Edited November 30, 2005 by mercury_in_flames

[Beethovenian]

Good post, Lamewing. I think your arguments are all very good, and indeed I would consider the iPod a better choice for the majority of people, even though I see it as way overhyped and dislike all the "cool" factor people see in it (how can something everybody has be cool?). So why do I buy a Sony Walkman?

The answer is simply gapless playback.

I understand many people don't listen to music that requires a continuous flow between tracks, and when they do a little pause may not be annoying enough. But for me lack of gapless simply cancels any advantage a player may have. I'm a big fan of classical music, and my collection of "gapless" CDs alone is very likely bigger than the whole musical collection of most people (currently I have around 400 CDs that include some gapless transitions). True, some transitions are not that hurt by a brief pause (though the iPod has a more than acceptable one for my taste), but others are: it's ridiculous to break the tension buildup Beethoven creates for the triumphant finale in his Fifth Symphony, as is to stop the dancing flow of Stravinsky's Petrushka, or to interrupt the passionate duet of Tristan and Isolde in Wagner's opera.

Some years ago I could be more tolerant with lack of gapless, and even think of concatenation of files as a somewhat acceptable way around (though how can you find the aria you want in an opera when everything is just a whole big track? And how do you know which song is playing if all you can see is the album name?). But it's been years, Apple has even brought its format to the table, lots of people have complained, and nothing happened. It became simply unacceptable to me. Lack of gapless brings back problems that existed during the 78s era, what are they doing here, in the 21st century?

I know that doesn't excuse Sony of its bad software. But I have to confess software flaws don't bother me nearly as much, because somehow I always managed to survive them, and they were in a way or another fixed. Indeed, in many aspects I like SonicStage. Bear in mind I'm a classical music fan. I tend to listen to albums, not songs. I don't like iTunes's interface, very oriented to pop music and individual song listening. I don't care for playlisting, shuffles and all those things. And I don't mind copy protection, though I agree Sony does it in a very cumbersome way. In fact, I'm against music piracy. Being a fan of a genre that is strugling to survive, I think I have to do what I can to support musicians. So I buy CDs, go to concerts, donate to music organizations.

That's it. I could add that I wouldn't like to have the player everybody has (which is true), but that wouldn't deter me from buying an iPod over a Walkman. I just happen to mind the gap.

[lamewing]

Ascariss, I guess I should have made myself more clear. When I say drag-and-drop I mean TRUE drag-and-drop from the OS without the need of any intermediary software. My mistake in not making myself clear on that point.

I see that most folk seem to be buying the unit for the hardware (Sony fans) or just to avoid buying an iPod. I can support the 1st one, but the 2nd reason seems a bad choice. That is like not buying a Honda just because too many folks use them, or drinking RC cola instead of Coca Cola.

I agree that the new iPods are much easier to scratch. This wasn't always the case, the 1st and 2nd generation models had a thicker and much tougher plastic. I never did understand the idea of the silver backplate. The mini had the best phycial design, it was very resistant to physical damage and scratches. It is too bad Apple didn't just add a color screen to it and replace the HD with flash RAM. The battery life on the 2nd mini was easily up to 25 hours. This is just as good as many of the Sony's. I am still unclear as to why the rest have such poor battery life. The Cowon X5L is another example of good battery life - around 30 - 35 hours. Very nice indeed.

It seems that most of the Sony fans are willing to put up with the bad software just so they can use the nice Sony hardware, but doesn't anyone here feel that this may not be the case with the average user? Worse yet, if the review sites start in on Sony's new line, things could look grim if the software isn't fixed. Sony could eaisly get a bad rep ... again.

Does anyone else wonder why Sony would release such poor software with so many bugs? It just seems...counterproductive, I guess. Also, why would Sony walk away from the use of the nice color LCD screen on the Pocket Vaio (especially since Apple uses only color screens now) to instead use the OLED which just looks so plain-Jane in comparison. I guess I come from another time, but I like album art...even if it is just a small pic on a color LCD screen. I wish Sony had kept it...ESPECIALLY the idea of browsing albums by the cover art!!!!

Truthfully, does anyone here truly believe that these new products are going to do much to help Sony? This isn't meant as a barb to ya'll, but a serious question. Can Sony make a go of it with these new products? I personally see this as the equivilant of Nintendo and the upcomig Revolution. Sony might stay in the game, but I don't see them making any headway. I WOULD LIKE TO BE WRONG, but I don't think I am.

Also, while I purposely mentioned the iPod since it is the industry leader, I am really comparing the new units to any of the other quality players out there.

Beethovenian, I do agree with you about listening to albums moreso than individual songs, that is why I am a fan of the file-system method that the Cown players use. It is just like browsing the music my hard drive. I know all my music and where it is located, plus I don't buy downloaded music (no DRM for me), just CDs.

I acutally find itunes (and because of that, the iPod) to have ONE SERIOUS ADVANTAGE (just like you need gapless!!!). I NEED the easy of use when dealing with Hiragana, Katakana, Kanji, Hangul and Chinese. The native unicode that iTunes has has kept it as my program of choice. I have NEVER UNDERSTOOD why Sony has to produce so many iternations of the hardware and software for each part of the world. WHY can't Sony just do as Apple does and produce a product that natively supports MANY languages, without the need for us to use AppLocale and registry hacks, which still doesn't give as much language support as iTunes.

It would be nice if Sony provided the same range of hardware outside Japan as in Japan. Look at the NW-HD2 (Japan only), the new A1200 (8GB - Japan only), the special editions of the A608 (Japan only). Minidisc has the same issue...lesser remotes, etc on the western models, while Japan gets the best products. Let's not forget the wider range of colors too.

I guess I am just really concerned about Sony screwing up again. I was a customer for two decades and now it looks like they just cannot get it right. I guess it wouldn't be such a big deal if they just gave the digital music player market to Apple and kept a small portion for themselves....just as Apple does with the Mac. BUT, they keep saying they will take back the market and each time they just get pie in the face. Sometimes it is okay not to be the top dog...I wonder if Sony will ever figure that out?

Edited December 1, 2005 by lamewing

[Ascariss]

Sadly Sony is a bit paranoid about piracy so the drag and drop issue from windows explorer could be the reason why it isn't there. I would also like to see it implemented but I doubt they will.

Sure the CP software will cost Sony plenty of sales, but once the update comes, the good one, hopefully all will be well.

The thing with Sony and connect, and their DAPs, there was an article from the summer or so referring to sony and its future plans, and also how the company came to be where it is.

Here is the thread:

http://www.atraclife.com/index.php?showtopic=467

As for the colour LCD and browsing the albums, perhaps a nice feature, but for some odd reason, I use winamp, and I don't browse my songs by album art on the PC so I have no real need to do it on a DAP.

I have nothing against people with ipods, it's just the people who think the ipod is superior to all other DAPs.

[Beethovenian]

To be honest, I think for the majority of people the use of a software to transfer music is a better option. I don't think people are organized enough to deal with Windows folders and true drag & drop. But it would be nice if the option was there.

[Guest Stuge]

Since Sony is also making Cds in the name of Sony Music so they don`t like there music to be exchanged.So this could be the reason they haven`t` given us drag & drop facility.For this reason i`m not going to ditch them

Edited December 1, 2005 by Stuge

[Tetsugaku-San]

Lamewing this is just a matter of different mind sets in this case.

I don't want an iPod for the plain and simple reason that everybody has one, as far as I'm concerned I don't want to own anything that I see other people with on a regular basis. This goes for everything I own, I even source rare Tshirts with runs of 300 or less worldwide to ensure I don't see someone else with one. Odd, but true

You also mention the Nintendo Revolution, again - that's the console I'm going to be getting After seeing the videos of people suing the controller I just can't wait. I'm fed up with Microsoft and Sony's Willy Waving about their specs

iSheep suck.

[KJ_Palmer]

I don't see that drag and drop is such a big issue - not enough to not buy a Sony on anyway. Once you've selected your tracks to transfer, you just hit the transfer button..

I'm quite happy with the HD5 and the way it seamlessly fits into my existing ATRAC/Sonicstage collection and Hi-MD setup, nothing to reconvert. I'll doubtless consider a new generation Sony DAP too in a while when the software improves. If I'd had endless problems with Sony gear I wouldn't be buying any more, but as I haven't I'm happy to carry on with them.

[mercury_in_flames]

I don't see that drag and drop is such a big issue - not enough to not buy a Sony on anyway. Once you've selected your tracks to transfer, you just hit the transfer button..

I'm quite happy with the HD5 and the way it seamlessly fits into my existing ATRAC/Sonicstage collection and Hi-MD setup, nothing to reconvert. I'll doubtless consider a new generation Sony DAP too in a while when the software improves. If I'd had endless problems with Sony gear I wouldn't be buying any more, but as I haven't I'm happy to carry on with them.

←

didnt know you had the 30 gig version man, would be nice to see the odd photo if you could. Just to see the difference in the buttons.

[lamewing]

I just like the OS drag and drop since I can use any computer that recognizes the X5L as mass storage device.

"Since Sony is also making Cds in the name of Sony Music so they don`t like there music to be exchanged.So this could be the reason they haven`t` given us drag & drop facility...."

I don't really think this makes sense on Sony's part (or at all for that matter) as the unit can still be used as a standard usb hard drive - so the music can still be exchanged, so this solves nothing and is just an excuse on Sony's part. If they truly don't want folks to share their music, they wouldn't even allow their players to act as a usb HDD. I would love to know the real reason they choose to do this.

Palmer's device makes a nice compliment to my earlier point...Why does Sony feel the need to create different versions of their hardware for difernet regions, when Apple has shown that one singe device version is all that is needed?

Has no one a clue (an insider's perspective perhaps) as to why Sony chooses to use a non-unicode program that cannot support mulitiple languages. This is the second reason I have stayed away from their units (even though I did try a HD1 and a Pocket Vaio). I loved the P.Vaio, but it and the HD1 had a niggle the bothered the hell out of me - ANYTIME I pressed a button, the hard drive spun up. This makes no sense as it wastes battery power for no reason. Anyone with electronics knowledge understand the reasoning behind this.

I DO APPRECIATE all the info folks have provided so far, but a few questions remained unanswered such as why Sony would choose to provide a broken piece of software for their players upon release and not keep folks up to date as to the problem's resolution. Not everyone who buys such a unit will ocme here and read Kurisu's post about a major update.

Another question. I would have figured that Sony would release first in Japan, second in the U.S. and then in the U.K./Canada, etc. Any clues as to why the U.S. didn't get an early release? Does Sony have that little confidence in selling their products here due to Apple? Or is there a more reasonable business reason that I cannot come up with? Don't get me wrong; I don't expect the U.S to get a release first, just because we are the U.S. but this does seem different than how Sony normally does things.

"I don't see that drag and drop is such a big issue - not enough to not buy a Sony on anyway. Once you've selected your tracks to transfer, you just hit the transfer button.. "

No need to roll your eyes at me because I feel the forced use of software for transfers is unnecessary and outdated. This does play a role in the use of a player on mulitple OS platforms. I can use my X5L on any OS that supports mass storage and USB. I guess Sony just has no interest in anyone outstide of Windows XP, etc.

Also, I can attach my player to any OS and play from the the player on the spot. Can this be done with a Sony player without SonicStage? If Sony is going to stop us from using true drag and drop, how about the ability to connect to a PC (at least) and still play the music (esp.if it is mp3s) from any mp3 player. Or have a mini player on the unit that would allow for play through usb just as with SonicStage. This would allow for play away from home, but still keep folks from the dreaded music exhange..

Edited December 1, 2005 by lamewing

[KJ_Palmer]

Well, sorry for the rolleyes, lamewing, but really my point is that no drag & drop is not a big hardship for me, which is why I personally don't mind using the software or Sony equipment. Also I need gapless playback for classical music and so on, which (I believe) is not offered by most other players.

didnt know you had the 30 gig version man, would be nice to see the odd photo if you could. Just to see the difference in the buttons.

Yep, that's right greg. Love the 30GB HD5, to be honest though I think it's very similar to the 20GB version, bit heavier maybe, and only comes in 'silver' livery, which is a shame as it's my least favourite colour. The buttons are black with red-ish lettering, no cracking with them (so far) though. Actually I bought a black skin for it as I dislike the silver so much, but I'll post some pics up soon, both skinned and naked...

Cheers

Edited December 1, 2005 by KJ_Palmer

[Guest Stuge]

Not everyone who buys such a unit will ocme here and read Kurisu's post about a major update.

You are right infact . Especially for a newbie or first timers users doesn`t` even know about "Atraclife".He/she comes to know when they face problem with their software or hardware after searching lot on google or anywhere.

>I`m not taking about everyone but most people doesn`t know about "atraclife"

lso, I can attach my player to any OS and play from the the player on the spot. Can this be done with a Sony player without SonicStage?

This is again because of encypted technology they are using to prevent us from exchanging .But Xispe`s software has given me a sigh of relief as now i can hear songs & and even save files on different computers.

U.S. didn't get the release this time because i think they(Sony) were not confident at all with there new software.I think before their release in U.K .Sony would have known that how connect is going to behave

They are still afraid to announce the release dates, as they don`t want to lose their reputation & fame they are having in US & in other parts of the world

[lamewing]

Well, sorry for the rolleyes, lamewing, but really my point is that no drag & drop is not a big hardship for me, which is why I personally don't mind using the software or Sony equipment. Also I need gapless playback for classical music and so on, which (I believe) is not offered by most other players.

Yep, that's right greg. Love the 30GB HD5, to be honest though I think it's very similar to the 20GB version, bit heavier maybe, and only comes in 'silver' livery, which is a shame as it's my least favourite colour. The buttons are black with red-ish lettering, no cracking with them (so far) though. Actually I bought a black skin for it as I dislike the silver so much, but I'll post some pics up soon, both skinned and naked...

Cheers

←

I will have to check and see if my player handles gapless playback or not. It might, depending on the specific codec. Good point though. This is one of the reasons that makes a great deal of sense to use the Sony devices.

[Dinko]

For those who want true drag & drop via Windows Explorer from Sony... you migth want to buy a Sony Giga Panel car stereo...

http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.2636

[lamewing]

You are right infact . Especially for a newbie or first timers users  doesn`t` even know about "Atraclife".He/she comes to know when they face problem with their software or hardware after searching lot on google or anywhere.

>I`m not taking about everyone but most people doesn`t know about "atraclife"

This is again because of encypted technology they are using to prevent us from exchanging .But Xispe`s software has given me a sigh of relief as now i can hear songs & and even save files  on different computers.

U.S. didn't get the release this time because i think they(Sony) were not confident at all with there new software.I think before their release in U.K .Sony would have known that how connect is going to behave

They are  still afraid to announce the release dates, as they don`t want to lose their reputation & fame they are having in US & in other parts of the world

←

I only found this site thanks to minidisc.org, but it is a site that Sony should promote as it truly can help those who are new to Sony devices.

I will check out Xispe's software. Is is available for download here (haven't checked yet, and my lab is about to begin!!!)?

If that is true, then Sony must really not care about the U.K. that much, or they figure it is a good testing ground due to Europeans being more forgiving than us Americans. (?) They do have a right to worry, because if they release connect here in the States in the condition it's in, there will be quite a backlash against them, only strenthing Apple's stranglehold here in the U.S.

I hope these will be carried at my local Beast Buy, Circuit City, etc. as I would like to see one in person before I make a final judgement.

Joe

[mercury_in_flames]

Well, sorry for the rolleyes, lamewing, but really my point is that no drag & drop is not a big hardship for me, which is why I personally don't mind using the software or Sony equipment. Also I need gapless playback for classical music and so on, which (I believe) is not offered by most other players.

Yep, that's right greg. Love the 30GB HD5, to be honest though I think it's very similar to the 20GB version, bit heavier maybe, and only comes in 'silver' livery, which is a shame as it's my least favourite colour. The buttons are black with red-ish lettering, no cracking with them (so far) though. Actually I bought a black skin for it as I dislike the silver so much, but I'll post some pics up soon, both skinned and naked...

Cheers

←

the black buttons dont crack and if they do, you cant see it unless you are looking with a huge magnifying glass under a strong light.

[sylikc]

You guys sure have a lot of time to write essay-length posts! Anyhow, just adding my 2 cents to the peaceful topic (amazed there's no flames )...

I don't have any of Sony's latest MP3 players. But I do have one of their really nice MD players (the MZR-91 or something). The sounds was great, battery was nice, and it was slim (size of 2x MDs stacked on top of each other) and sexy. Most importantly, I loved that in-line control using that toggle/knob switch you find on the NW-E507/A60x.

That's probably one of the main reasons I landed myself here at ATRACLife . Like Stuge was saying, I was one of the lucky ones digging for NW-E507 firmware updates before it shipped . I found it hard to navigate Sony's site for support and downloads (Google's usually much faster anyway!).

On the iPod/iSheep (lol I never called it iSheep before), I do like the look and feel of the original Synaptics touchpad. It was cool for about the 1st and 2nd generation. But, like others have said, something can only look "cool" for so long. There really isn't much style if everyone's carrying one of these 'cool' white things around.

I'm a late adopter when it comes to trends hehe. In fact, I've had the pleasure of choosing between the iPod Nano and Sony player for my first MP3 player. And, between the NW-E507's OLED, insane battery life, all-in-one knob switch which I loved so much.. and the Nano's bigger capacity, round touchpad, more LCD display lines, larger user-community... I've found Sony as the more competent player.

But looks and operational aspects are only the half of it. I find sound-quality a supreme aspect when choosing a player. Reading all types of reviews on MP3 players, I think Creative probably has the best sound quality. But, they're software is inversely as bad, probably having some of the worse build quality and usability on the market.

Many iSheep users tell me that their player sounds to same as everything else out there. Yes, it does when you're using the stock earbuds that come with the players. Aside from my newly acquired Sennheiser PX-100, I also have a Kenwood KPM-610. Music does NOT sound the same on all players with high quality headphones. Another aspect is the source audio quality... if all you're listening to is 128kbps MP3s, I'd say it sounds about the same on all MP3/DA players regardless of what headphones you use.

On to software and usability connecting computer to DA player... Yes, I would prefer to have true drag-and-drop onto the player to transfer music. I think anyone who's aware of all the bloat and crap that can get installed with commercial software really doesn't want to install more junk on their computer. I listen to my music in Winamp, and that's about all I want in terms of audio software.

Most DA players nowadays comes with some form of their audio software to control DRM. I know it doesn't apply to MP3's, but manufacturers bundle it anyway. Frankly, I don't care for Sonic Stage or Connect, because all I have are MP3s. Sometime down the line, I might start ATRAC-ing things just so I can listen to music on the player longer. But, in my opinion, iTunes, Sonic Stage, Creative Media Center, iRiver, etc. software packages all kinda suck.

To add to Sony's mess of DRM and stuff, if you guys have read about their latest problems with XCP on their Audio CDs, Sony is really really paranoid when it comes to controlling DRM. That's why you can put music on the player relatively easily, but very hard to "copy" it back off digitally. The equivalent is that back in the MD days, you can have digital-input (recording) of MDs, but only analog-output (playback) of your digitally recorded tracks. This doesn't bother me much though, storing to the player is more or less a one-way operation for me. If I need to give a copy to my friend, I'd use a flash drive or something.

The point about why Sony has different hardware in different regions probably has something to do with Sony's sales strategy. That also goes in line with how Sony's prices are generally a little bloated as well. In terms of hardware, though, iSheep players don't have FM. They can have a 'universal' player that works everywhere because it doesn't have to deal with the different frequencies.