We can't use HDD above 10,000 ft. elevation

[Guest Stuge]

I have heard that we can`t use the DAP(Hard drive) above 10,000 ft(approx 3000mt) elevation But if we are in a plane at 37,000ft then no damage will occur because aircabin of airplanes are pressurized .

If that is right I have safed my Dap from being damaged as i was planning to take my DAP to "LEH Ladakh"(In India) next year which is at a height of 3500 mt..

I think are hard drive used in our Dap(network walkman) ARE NOT AIR TIGHT...

Hai Bhagwan !!!!!!!!

[JustAnUnCoolCat]

Well, i can't give you a definately yes or no to this, but instead.. here's some food for thought that might help ....

In space, aka on things like the Shuttle, they have used HDD'son computers before to the best of my knowledge - now the 'altitude' relative to sea level there, is way way above the kinda levels you are talking of, and yet they seem to get by without rapid HDD demise (and in zero g too).

As far as altitude related effects go re atmospheric pressure and humidty and temp goes :-

Up there in orbit, the atmospheric pressure used in pressurised cabins is lower than the 1 atmosphere we are used to on earth as i recall, this is a precaution vs explosive decompression in the event of an integrity failure (aka if the outside pressure, tech o atmospheres in space, vs 1-2 third of 1 atmosphere in an enviromment suit or pressurised cabin means that the loss of pressure in the event of a breach takes longer to happen .. how long depends on the scale of the breach and the pressure diff vs the size of the aperture that is the breach). Most equipment seems to work ok up there - slight variations in performance and efficiency but overall ok - often humidity changes has more effect than pressure diffs.

So i figure you are on reasonably safe ground, personally.

Whilst you might want to research what i have glossed over above (really way too much stuff to reproduce here, and even the dynamics of effects is way outside my field of experience), you'll find the tolerences of many kinda of so-called sensitive devices is way better than you imagine.

If you were to ask my advice.. it would be this :-

1) Go ahead.

2) Put the device in a good carrier that insulates it from the cold and will protect it from drops.

In fact, when working off rechargable cells for power, the temp factor is more an issue here, as the operating temp range of a cell type is pretty much what you should (without additional heat retaining insulation work) work within for optimal endurance (aka to ensure the cell works chemically and effective within tolerences - if you had seen how quick a ni-cad performance drops off in a wind-chill situation of around -15 to -20C, you'd see why rechargable cell packs for extreme environments are often heavier due to additional thermal insulation).

So to combat that prob, get a good carrier from somewhere, that literally encloses the device and will also contain an aux battery pack if used and wear it on your body as close to the body as poss (the ambident reliable heat source really), and guess what..??

As you trek, you generate body heat, which will then help keep the device warm and hence help to combat residual discharge of the cell pack, and also keep a fairly substantial stable temperature around the device.

When i can't use a bespoke or close fitting case for equipment, in harsh temp environments (ever felt how cold it can get up in the air stream on a transmitter tower.. on a windy winter day??), my preferred second-best choice is a good CDP carrier, the kind that sits on your belt - but have it so the case sits against the small of your back, so it's out of the way and is also in a good place to be fairly well insulated vs persistent shock from walking etc.

When i did the Cat Test series for testing anti-shock systems with iRiver equipment, i used that same approach to give the equipment (CDP's) the best starting point to work under, and it never failed

Good luck, and go with your instincts on this dilemma

[Guest Stuge]

THANKS FOR THE ADVICE...

I Have also mailed Sony regarding this query

[MDX-400]

I think are hard drive used in our Dap(network walkman) ARE NOT AIR TIGHT...

Hai Bhagwan !!!!!!!!

←

They are certainly airtight! every HDD is, otherwise they'd be useless--any (even microscopic) particles getting in there would cause bad sectors/read errors. There are usually certain vent holes in HDDs though, that I thought were to somehow equalise pressure but I guess they aren't for that?

Anyway the problem is probably more that they are airtight rather than they aren't. At lower atmospheric pressures, the concern might be that the HDDs internal air pressure would be greater than its seal could reliably hold, thus causing it to vent and either cause damage or no longer be protected against dirt/dust particles? At least that's all I can think of in regards to why it wouldn't work at higher altitudes.

I'm interested to hear whay Sony says as well. Even better still, who makes the HDD in Sony units? Email the manufacturer and ask them about the altitude limit.

[Guest Stuge]

This is to inform you that using the network walkman at higher altitude is not a concern but make sure that it is not used in places of higher vibration,moisture,temperature  are not at the extreme levels.

As per the manual,please don't use the network walkman below 5

Hope this information satisfies you.

Do feel free to get in touch with us for further  assistance.

With Warm Regards,

Abc(name changed)

Sony India Pvt Ltd. - Delhi

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your recent e-mail.

I am pleased to confirm that there will be no problems operating the unit at these altitudes although the temperature may be an issue.  The Walkmans that you have can operate in temperatures ranging from 5 to 35 degrees centigrade; there is also the possibility that the unit could suffer from condensation at these altitudes.

I hope this information is of assistance.

With Regards

Abc(Name changed)

For and on Behalf of

Sony United Kingdom Limited

So these two e-mails have cleared my doubt that at high altitudes walkman can be used

[JustAnUnCoolCat]

Well, at least now u got some guidance 'on the record', from Sony, if you do get a failure prob or some residual issue relating to such things, and u did take all sane and practical precautions to protect your unit, they have kinda opened the door and invited u (although they may not realise it) to make a case out of if the worst happens.

But like i said, and humidity/temp related issues were covered in my reply, and with fairness to what was added after my post re pressure (and yes, on a more tech level than i covered, it has fair and valid points to consider) i think it's very safe to say what we all kinda knew in the back of our minds, that the 'beware' notices they stick in manuals about altitude etc, low-pressure used, is kinda more a case of 'covering our collective asses' - in many cases, mech and electro-mech devices are a damn sight more tolerent than you think often

God knows, the JB1 i used as a recorder, during the Cat Tests (to record the output from test decks) so i had a reliable reviewable way to assess just how little or how much failure there was with CDP anti-shock, it got hammered somewhat from vibration (and remember, it was in record mode, so way more HDD activity since it was recording to 48Khz WAV) than your average playback mode disk activity - and it survived fine.

Mind you, it was in a carrier, strapped to the small of my back like i suggested in my first reply, to help it exist in a place that was naturally subject to the best anti-shock isolation..aka your body

If you jump off something, and land, and it stings yer paws, then the odds are it's 'harsh' enough to induce some kinda vibration that would test the anti-shock resistence/resilience of a device

[Guest Stuge]

Like everybody said that keep your DAP warm in those places.So i will cover it with a good cover to protect my player from cold.

Since i`m going in Summer and temp. will be around 10deg during day ,So no problem.

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[fisha]

Folks, hard drives are not air tight.

Nearly all platter drives have breathe holes which allow for pressure expansion / contraction balancing.

The reason that you're advised to not use them at higher altitudes is principally because the read -write heads use a cushion of air to float just above the spinning disc. At sea level / lower altitudes, the higher density of air probably means that the cushion is thick enough to maintiain the correct head height off the platter.

higher altitudes and lower air density would mean that the air cant cushion enough to keep the head off the platter and so the risk of head crashing is greatly increased.

For space use, the known lower air densities will be taken into account and hard drives probably modified accordingly.

In answer to the comment of microscopic particules, the breathe holes in a drive are normally hidden behind the main labels and the air route behind the label normally has to travel through a spiral route and a filter before entereing the enclosure.

some drives also have filters at the sides of the platter which catch the spinning air going round and so filter the air inside as well.

[Guest Stuge]

fisha,

You are confusing everyone .Have you read the Sony e-mail i have posted here regarding this query?

[zackyman]

hi

im gonna have to agree with fisha

this link basically repeats what fisha said:

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclope...a/hard_disk.htm

(search for alittude)

plus if u do a google search it says that apple ipods have a 10,000 ft limit.

so unless sony uses some special hardrives (which i doubt anyone would do on a consumer product)....use at ur own risk.

also, my friend who does private flying tells me that he cannot use his laptop above 10,000 ft becomes of the hardrive issue.

btw, some hard-drives are designed to operate at higher altitudes / lower pressures through modifications in design, however that also means that they cannot be used at sea level due to the same issue (the heads will now be too far above the platter b/c the pressure is too high)

if you can find out what type of hard drive the daps use, then u can always email the manufacturer directly

zack

[Guest Stuge]

Now i`m totally confused because manufacturer(sony) says no problems while using the Dap at that height at the same time these new facts & information are making me think that i should not fully trust Sony regarding this query

Sony use "Toshiba" hard drives like I-pod so now i `m planning to send a mail to Toshiba regarding this query.....

If this Query is not solved then i will take my flash player instead..

Thanks zackyman & Fisha for confusing me further......

[Guest Stuge]

There are three Hard Drives Tosihiba is selling in 20gb(1.8inch) range

1.)MK-2003GAH (20 GB 1.8" Embedded Hard Disk Drive )

2.)MK-2004GAL (20 GB 1.8" Embedded Hard Disk Drive)

3.)MK-2008GAL(20 GB 1.8" Embedded Hard Disk Drive)

I wonder which Hard Drive is used in Sony Hard Disk Players..

Does anyone know which model of "Toshiba" hard disk are they using......???

[zackyman]

hey stuge

sorry for confusing you

i looked up the tech specs for the toshiba MK2004GAL harddrive,

which can be found here

http://sdd.toshiba.com/localcache/82000000...00100000000.pdf

cant seem to find the other ones though (or too sleepy =) )

if u do a search for altitude, the operating range is -300m to 3000m.

...

zack

[Guest Stuge]

Thanks zackyman,

My research on this topic will go further but you have atleast confirmed that DAPs can`t be used at that height...Only thing now i want to know is what is the Tosihiba Models Sony are using in HD3,HD5 & A3000/1000...So we can pressurise sony to write Altitude limits on their Daps.....

[Guest Stuge]

Hello One thing i can confirm that Sony has used "Tosihiba Hard Disk MK2006GAL" in HD3 & HD5 ...Apple also uses MK2006GAL IN 4th Gen I-Pod ..

[Guest Stuge]

Two days back I got the e-mail from Toshiba that MK2006GAL can`t be used at altitude 3000mt or above ..Then I told them that Sony told me that there is no problem in using the player at that height but they again replied my saying that There might be some confusion but player will not work at that altitude ..

[Ishiyoshi]

Two days back I got the e-mail from Toshiba that MK2006GAL can`t be used at altitude 3000mt or above ..Then I told them that Sony told me that there is no problem in using the player at that height but they again replied my saying that There might be some confusion but player will not work at that altitude ..

You can certainly use it while in the plane since its cabin pressurized. But of course, the device will likely fail in high elevation area such as the Himalayas.

[Guest Stuge]

Well, at least now u got some guidance 'on the record', from Sony, if you do get a failure prob or some residual issue relating to such things, and u did take all sane and practical precautions to protect your unit, they have kinda opened the door and invited u (although they may not realise it) to make a case out of if the worst happens.

Yes you are write infact ..Because Sony doesn`t think that there will be any failiure to Dap at that altitude but now it doesn`t matter .Instead of taking my Hard Disk player i will taking my flash based(NW-E505)....But also note Sony only writes "higher altitude" in thier E-mail & not Exact atitude

Also this post is also going to aware many members who doesn`t know about this ..

You can certainly use it while in the plane since its cabin pressurized. But of course, the device will likely fail in high elevation area such as the Himalayas.

Thanks for the info ..But i have already mentioned that in my first post..

I will not be able to use my Hdd player in Leh (because of altitude) but in middle himalayan(Shivalik Range) tourist spots like Shimal(HP),Darjeeling ,Dalhousie,Manali etc there i can use HDD player as alttitude of these place is between 2200-2600(mt)..

[Ishiyoshi]

I will not be able to use my Hdd player in Leh (because of altitude) but in middle himalayan(Shivalik Range) tourist spots like Shimal(HP),Darjeeling ,Dalhousie,Manali etc there i can use HDD player as alttitude of these place is between 2200-2600(mt)..

Thanks for the note. I will keep those location in mind as I do plan to visit the Himalayan area soon. Interesting discussion you have here.

[Guest Stuge]

Thanks for the note. I will keep those location in mind as I do plan to visit the Himalayan area soon. Interesting discussion you have here.

Nice to hear that you are planning to visit India ..In which month you are planning to visit..

Not to forget to Contact Tourism Office to have more Information

You can look here(they might be helpful..

Official Website of Ministry of Tourism

IncredibleIndia

And its nice that you liked the Topic

[Ishiyoshi]

Nice to hear that you are planning to visit India ..In which month you are planning to visit..

Sometime in July or August this year; just have to visit the region after looking at a gorgoeous picture of Gurudongmar Lake. Alright... back to topic.

[steve.ch]

hello,

we one can get for shure very well educated here in this forum!!!

i understand now (thanks to the posted link to the wikipedia-stuff) that one cannot use the HDD-players in high altutude, but that it is possible to do so in an pressurised airplane cabin.

what happens if one is flying in a small plane (like a twin otter or a cessna, waterplane or similar...) which does not supply a pressurized passenger cabin.

how high thoes planes are flying (any pilots or so in the forum?)?

what if one is above the 3000 feet but is not operating his player/HDD-unit? is it still possible to damage the HDD?

greetings to all the freaks here

special greeting to stugee

steve

[Guest Stuge]

what if one is above the 3000 feet but is not operating his player/HDD-unit? is it still possible to damage the HDD?

greetings to all the freaks here

special greeting to stugee

steve

Thanks for the Greetings & Special Greetings to you as well ..

Manual of MK-2004GAL (I couldn`t find the manual of MK2006)states that Altitude(Non operating ) is quite wider

between -400m to 15000m.So you can carry the player to above 3000m without harming the hard disk of your DAP ...

see here

http://www.atraclife.com/forums/uploads/po...68528_thumb.jpg