Teralus Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Hi, am still undecided as to what will be the best mic for me... anyway I was thinking, I am 201cm tall (6'7") which is pretty dam tall, my head and often even my shoulders are clear above crowd level at a concert and I was wondering if there could be an advantage to this... any more advice as to what mics I should get? I have an RH10 - and I am thinking of ordering from Sound Professionals! I mainly want to record rock concerts...loud stuff!Oh, and I want some mics that are really small, easy to hide and where would be the best place to place the mics also? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 At 6'7" you should make an excellent microphone stand. Basic binaurals from Sound Professionals (BMC-2) are the size of pencil erasers, very inconspicuous against a dark background. They are $35 on Ebay in the US, though I don't know where you are. You could also get their small higher-grade microphones--just look at the measurements. Get clips for them and place them on a shirt collar, on a hat, etc., at about the width of your ears to get a very realistic stereo sound. You're lucky you'll be above the crowd--you'll get clearer recordings without the conversation and applause right next to the mics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralus Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 (edited) Cool thanks A440, those look good!!http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/.../item/SP-SPSB-9Does anyone have any experience with these??? 12V - Will that be sweet to power my mics through the line in...I thought bat packs were 9v? I am a bit of a newbie witht this sort of stuff...but I am nervious about sneaking gear into venues so I want small stuff! The other option is their ATTENUATOR?? at $7 I might just chuck that in anyway??http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/.../item/SP-ATEN-1 Edited August 14, 2005 by Teralus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atrain Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 do you often wear caps or glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralus Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 No! I would clip them onto my collar..probably???Do i need a bat pack with my MD...or will the Attenuator do the trick?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralus Posted August 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 If I were to go for the SP-BMC-3? What would be the advantage or disadvantages of the high sensitivity option...keeping in mind I mainly want to use them for loud recordings?Worth it, don't mind the etc $$ if it is!http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-BMC-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 If you clip them to your collar, you'll loose the height advantage, mounting them to glasses, close to your ears fixes them in a pretty ideal position. If you don't have your own glasses, use some inexpensive reading-/sunglasses.If you plan to record mainly really loud stuff, the basic panasonic cartridges in standard configuration - as used in many sound professionals beginner microphones - won't do it - if connected as described by panasonic, they produce fairly high distortion at moderate SPL's and are marginally suitable for serious recording. Look out for the source follower / linkwitz mod or other microphones suited for high SPLs to be used together with a battery box and line-in - the standard panasonic configuration with attenuator - as A440 suggests - may work to a certain degree, but has obvious limitations. If you don't need it really loud, it might be sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 First of all, Sound Professionals' attenuator is exactly the same item as the Radio Shack one. If you're not paying additional shipping, go for it, but if you are, just go to Radio Shack.I have to disagree with greenmachine about the Panasonic microphone capsules used in the SoundPros. I've been using SoundPro BMC-2's for all kinds of LOUD shows with an attenuator, and they sound just fine unless it is ear-bleeding loud. If it is that loud, I suspect a battery box would give the mics enough headroom to prevent distortion from the mics. The difference between BMC-2 and BMC-3 seems to be in the wires and mounts, not the mics themselves, which have the same specs and probably use the same capsules. My BMC-2s don't look sturdy, but they have taken a lot of abuse, and the thin wires are very unobtrusive. The BMC-3's do look a bit more substantial, though. It's a tossup. Either way, definitely get them with clips. If you are going to exclusively record moderate to loud sounds, from close conversation to concerts, then low sensitivity should work for you. If you ever want to try recording quieter things, then get high sensitivity. Finally, I have a battery module but rarely use it. I don't like carrying the extra box and the recordings come out quieter, so they have to be amplified afterward. The purists like the battery box because electronics theory says you should use one, but at a concert in the dark, with gadgets in my pockets, I prefer the attenuator. I suggest you start with the attenuator, see how it works, and get a battery box later if you're not thrilled with the results. The attenuator will wear out after a lot of shows, and someday, at one concert, you'll get home and find static has messed up that recording. (Soundpro does guarantee it for two years, so I guess you could send it back for a replacement.) But until then, hey, it works for me. Glasses probably would be ideal for you, but at 6'7", even your collar is over my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 I wish i could express it in numbers, but i guess we have a different perception of 'loud'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauford Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 (edited) Hey now, I am only 6 feet 1 inch tall and I have been recording concerts for a few years now maybe 80 or 90 shows so far and I have had good performance with a few different microphone setups. The least expensive very good being the Sony 957, (@ $175.00 US) The very best are my DPA 4061's with a Core Sound battery box (to line in), they are truly the best I have heard so far. I am now using them with two Sony HiMD 910's so I can get 3 hours and 8 min in PCM mode with out having to swap out a disc. This set up is by far the most comfortable and stealthy I have ever used. I use the DPA foam wind screens on the 4061's and simplly stuff them in my ears, the kevlar flesh tone leads are in a binural "Y" and tuck neatly under my beard, at 6'7" your work should be at least as good as mine probably a bit better with respect to crowd noise!The real controling factor is your seat (microphone) location I find the best results are a seat location near the center line in the first 15 rows, idealy the first 5 rows, so tickets are the real expense (not the DPA 4061 microphones @ $980.00 US) It seems that all the artist I like most almost all use Meyer Sound Line Arrays and frequently Meyer Sound Studio Monitors as toe ins for the pit area up front, where I like to be, and that really helps the quality of the recording when your lucky enough to be up front in the pit. I wish i could express it in numbers, but i guess we have a different perception of 'loud'.← Edited August 14, 2005 by beauford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 I wish i could express it in numbers, but i guess we have a different perception of 'loud'.←Eh? What was that you said? Seriously, I go to a lot of live events. By loud I mean rock band in a small club loud, or arena show near the speakers loud: probably about 100-105 dB, near the limit of the MD-powered Panasonics. If I can feel the pressure of the bass in my ears, physically, then I know my recording is probably fried. But I have often gone to shows where the highs were so piercing I used earplugs, and the recordings via attenuator came out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralus Posted August 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Ok, I have some good ideas about where i should mount the mics...but I am still more confussed than ever about what mics to get! How about some SP-BMC-12...and a battery pack?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 I think it's hard to beat source follower modified omnidirectional miniature Panasonics - even for 300 U$ Audio Technicas or 1000 U$ DPAs, but that's only my opinion.Why does the 4060/4061 DPAs model name remind me of WM-60/61 Panasonics by the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teralus Posted August 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Where can i buy those from, I live in New Zealand and don't use Ebay at this stage! I was hoping to use my credit card to buy from an online store!Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Giant Squid offers the mod per request at no extra charge in their 'Omnidirectional Powered Stereo Microphone' set for 90 U$ including battery box.Visivox uses it in their 'SCM-PRO' for 55 U$ without battery box, but i think they've got one available per request.Core Sound sells them as 'Binaural microphone set' for 230 U$ including battery box.Sound Professionals doesn't seem to offer this mod, maybe per request, i don't know.Or alternatively, i could make you a similar set, but i guess it wouldn't be significantly cheaper than the Giant Squid / Visivox deal.Although the capsules themselves are very small, their housings are often not really miniature, so if you need it as small as possible be careful with your selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 What about in-ear binaurals? Given your height, it seems perfect.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 Given the coloration effect of the pinna (outer ear), it's not necessarily desirable to have them in your ears if you plan to listen through anything else but small earphones. Those are unmodified capsules, the hi-sens max SPL is 'only' about 113 dB with batt box, loud rock concerts can exceed that level. The max SPL of 120 dB with a batt box of the low-sens should be sufficient, though the mod raises it to significantly above 130 dB, which would be sufficient in any case. Additionally, i wouldn't rely to 100% on the accuracy of Sound Pros (and others) specifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauford Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 (edited) Given the coloration effect of the pinna (outer ear), it's not necessarily desirable to have them in your ears if you plan to listen through anything else but small earphones. Those are unmodified capsules, the hi-sens max SPL is 'only' about 113 dB with batt box, loud rock concerts can exceed that level. The max SPL of 120 dB with a batt box of the low-sens should be sufficient, though the mod raises it to significantly above 130 dB, which would be sufficient in any case. Additionally, i wouldn't rely to 100% on the accuracy of Sound Pros (and others) specifications.←Ah, the subjective introduction of coloration! The simple fact is every link in the chain introduces it own compromises, distortions, and colorations, including your playback equipment. It is clear that even the ears you listen with will do the same. One of the beautiful things about the DPA 4061's is that they include different screens that acousticly modify the frequency response to compensate for their location on your body. So you use one screen for mounting the mics on your head, and a different one to mount them on your torso. As you might suspect your torso will add it's own coloration as well.I admit the selection of microphones is a time and $ intensive task and your ears and playback equipment will with their own compromises determine which ones sound best to you, but at 6'7" I think a head mounted pair is really a no brainer. I would from my experience highly recommend for head mounted microphones you consider Len Moskowitz's fine fabrication skills and visit the Core Sound Web site. Len fabs custom microphones in every price range, he fabed my DPA's and he also has a few versions using the Panasonic mics that many of our fellow posters have already mentioned here.I think it would be helpful to know what type of playback equipment you will be listening to you recordings on? (Ah, the magic land of N Z !!!! I have been buying tubes from NZ for a few years now seems like your fellow countrymen have stashed a lot of NOS tubes)Just for referance here what will you be using for a playback system? Edited August 18, 2005 by beauford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted August 16, 2005 Report Share Posted August 16, 2005 The brightest light source won't illuminate your room satisfactory if you put it under your bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optimistic-pessimist Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 (edited) My 2 cents... I've been using a pair of Core Sound Binaurals (CSB) for well over two years now... and in my experience, they work best when located as close to the sound source as possible. If he wants to stand back in the crowd and record a rock concert at an arena, then I would suggest a set of cardioid mics. The omnis will just pick up too much crowd noise and, more importantly, reverb from the venue walls and ceiling. Len at Core Sound claims that the CSB's are more versatile than the CSC's, but I just don't care for the feel of a recording made with omnis while standing far from the sound source.EDIT: Len at Core Sound will let you try out his mics for 30 days and return them (minus the shipping). Gives you a little chance to experiment. Don't be upset if your first attempt at taping a show doesn't turn out the way you want... there can be a bit of a learning curve. Then again, there's lots of experienced tapers on this forum to learn from and give you a good head start. Edited August 24, 2005 by optimistic-pessimist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauford Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 (edited) My 2 cents... I've been using a pair of Core Sound Binaurals (CSB) for well over two years now... and in my experience, they work best when located as close to the sound source as possible. If he wants to stand back in the crowd and record a rock concert at an arena, then I would suggest a set of cardioid mics. The omnis will just pick up too much crowd noise and, more importantly, reverb from the venue walls and ceiling. Len at Core Sound claims that the CSB's are more versatile than the CSC's, but I just don't care for the feel of a recording made with omnis while standing far from the sound source.EDIT: Len at Core Sound will let you try out his mics for 30 days and return them (minus the shipping). Gives you a little chance to experiment. Don't be upset if your first attempt at taping a show doesn't turn out the way you want... there can be a bit of a learning curve. Then again, there's lots of experienced tapers on this forum to learn from and give you a good head start.←Hey now, I have to agree with O-P here the microphone location is nearly as important as the mike itself. However I think you should keep in mind that once the "omni" microphones are in your ears in essence they really are not omni's anymore.If you look at recordings through InspectorXL software for example using its stereo meter plot function using my Core Sound HEB (DPA4061's) the plot tends to look more like a slightly bent (towards the front) figure eight than two omni's (I have a fat head) and the closer you are to the stage the less crowd noise you tend to get in my experience as well. So like I wrote in a earlier post, it's the great seat that ends up being the most expensive component to getting a really first rate recording.Again O-P is correct Len @ Core-Sound.com is really making you an offer that you can't refuse. Edited August 24, 2005 by beauford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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