Upgrading from Hi-MD: Portable DVD players for audio.

[Deanage]

Now that Hi-MD is basically dead I (we) have to choose a new upgrade path once our walkmans die. After contemplating HD players, which have no way of upgrading capacity, I am now thinking about portable DVD players, as extra capacity is as cheap as chips (about 6hrs of WAV for around $1.50).

I only need it for WAV playback and my 3 main "must haves" are

-Ability to put WAV files on a DVD and have the player able read it.

-Decent battery life (5hrs+, WAV audio only).

-A SNR near or equivalent to Hi-MD (100db SNR, I believe it is).

Also being able to turn off the screen (and use a small dot matrix display) when playing back audio would be cool, so as to save battery life. Using AA's would rock, but chances of this happening are minimal so battery type isn't much of a issue. I couldn't give a toss about size either but a remote would be handy so I can leave it in my bag and use the remote for volume and etc.

I'm yet to find a player that can do these things. Anyone know of a product?

Thanks in advance

[greenmachine]

With the ability to also play lossy formats like mp3 and a good battery life, this would be a great product, basically a cd player with 7x the storage, but i guess it would be physically too large for joe average.

[1kyle]

With the ability to also play lossy formats like mp3 and a good battery life, this would be a great product, basically a cd player with 7x the storage, but i guess it would be physically too large for joe average.

These aren't really "Portable" devices in the sense that Walkmans etc are -- but most do have OPTICAL OUT so the sound quality should be excellent (always assuming the source is).

You can also play direct into a Home Cinema type of sound system.

Most will also play audio CD's CD/RW's as well and may even be able to handle MP3's (Ugh Ugh!! not my favorite format).

Now as for transferring to / from a computer I think you'll have to do that in real time from the device (Optical).

However this brings back the original problem in the first place --who wants to carry around a stash of largeish DVD's and CD's

The MD is a perfect size for portable audio -- small enough to be easily portable without being too small so easily lost etc etc.

And in any case the MD is NOT dead.

Cheers

-K

[Sparky191]

Since people are always moaning about the problem of capacity on a HD player, which you can get in 40-60GB capacities. I have to ask do you people have more then 60GB's worth of MD/HiMD's already?

If you do, then thats (very roughly) about 8 (12hr) days of non stop CD quality music, without repeating a single track. I'm curious what you are doing, that this isn't enough?

Personally I listen at max 2-4hrs of music in a day. Usually I'll be listening to a few favorite tracks a few times, rather then continuous new tracks, and the majority of my listening is when I'm working. Thats on a good day. Theres a lot of days where I don't get the chance to listen to anything.

Personally I don't think MD is over. I think it will retain a smaller but dedicated following.

[big_raji]

I know there were some "Mini-CD" portable devices awhile back that played those smaller CD-R discs (10cm or so?)

I've seen those "Mini-DVD" discs out now, which are about the same size. Any word on any portable audio only players for these discs? I assume those Mini-DVD's are DVD-R's for camcorders or something. Would be nice to see a portable audio device that played audio files from those discs.

[Sparky191]

....Would be nice to see a portable audio device that played audio files from those discs.

Why? You can fit more into a smaller space using flash or a HD.

[big_raji]

Why? You can fit more into a smaller space using flash or a HD.

The same reason everyone here uses MD players. Cheap removable media.

[mmilovan]

I always dreamed of mini DVD player that can for example play mp3, any lossless format and wav.

On the other hand it would be so nice that such player would have record function (at least 16/44 uncompressed, 24/96 is way to much for mini DVD capacity).

Now, that's dream machine.

[Deanage]

I've seen those "Mini-DVD" discs out now, which are about the same size. Any word on any portable audio only players for these discs? I assume those Mini-DVD's are DVD-R's for camcorders or something. Would be nice to see a portable audio device that played audio files from those discs.

That'd be nice. Not as much space per disc (or as cheap and plentiful), but the price of blank media isn't much of an issue.

Yeah DVD players are big but you do get to watch movies and other stuff on a good sized screen (unlike the new iPod movie's 6cm squintfest screen*cough*).

The search continues...

[Sparky191]

The same reason everyone here uses MD players. Cheap removable media.

I don't use it for that reason. I use it for cheap quality recording. I ony have a 2 HiMD disks.

If that really was all you were interested in would you not use a CD/MP3 CD player? CD blanks are the cheapest media around.

[Deanage]

If that really was all you were interested in would you not use a CD/MP3 CD player? CD blanks are the cheapest media around.

Hmm, good point. However, CD's can only hold 80mins of PCM/WAV quality compared to Hi-MD's 94. That's not much more time but the physical size is much smaller. I'd be willing to sacrifice size if it means I can use DVD's for WAV playback because you get so much more time.

[big_raji]

I don't use it for that reason. I use it for cheap quality recording. I ony have a 2 HiMD disks.

I said "player", not recorder

If that really was all you were interested in would you not use a CD/MP3 CD player? CD blanks are the cheapest media around.

Not pocketable.

[Sparky191]

The same reason everyone here uses MD players. Cheap removable media.

You also said "everyone" Sweeping generalisation I know but...

Modern PCDP's are tiny, barely bigger then a CD and easily pocketable. Perhaps not in a suit or tight jeans, but then you won't get a MD and disk in those clothes either. HiMD player/recorder (does it really matter) and bunch of disks is going to be bigger then a HD player. Even a 60GB ipod is going to be smaller than that. IMO cheap media, physical size and capacity are not the strong points of the MD/HiMD format.

[Justin42]

Sony made a portable DVD/CD-RW drive [MPD-AP20U] in 2002 that plays MP3 and WAV on DVD. It's really a spectacular unit, I got lucky and got one for under $100 on clearance; it's not a DVD player per se (it's just a portable computer drive, basically). It's like someone at Sony said "let's throw EVERYTHING in one unit (it also has a Memory Stick slot..!), charge more than most people would ever be willing to pay, and see how it sells!"

http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,109120,00.asp

To this day, I believe it is the only portable unit of its type (MP3 on DVD). It was marketed as a computer drive and not a portable audio player. If you look at the box you wouldn't even know it could be used as a portable audio unit, typical Sony! Decent battery life, 12+ hours per charge playing MP3s on DVD. WAV playback is closer to the 3-5 hour mark.

I love mine, and just wish I had bought a second when they were being cleared out...

Edited October 22, 2005 by Justin42

[Sparky191]

Thats looks an interesting unit. I've never heard of it before. However a HDD units make a lot more sense. How goods the song out of that unit?

Edited October 22, 2005 by Sparky191

[big_raji]

You also said "everyone" Sweeping generalisation I know but...

Modern PCDP's are tiny, barely bigger then a CD and easily pocketable. Perhaps not in a suit or tight jeans, but then you won't get a MD and disk in those clothes either. HiMD player/recorder (does it really matter) and bunch of disks is going to be bigger then a HD player. Even a 60GB ipod is going to be smaller than that. IMO cheap media, physical size and capacity are not the strong points of the MD/HiMD format.

Well, avoiding sweeping generalizations, I use MD's because of removable media. Not necessarily because it's cheap (which it isn't compared to CD-R's).

I love the idea of the ipod / ipod nano, but I'm very finicky about my music, and what I'm in the mood for. If I'm going on a trip, I usually pickup my music player last. At that point, I say to myself "What kind of music/audio do I want to bring with me?" with MD's, it's a matter of grabbing a handful of discs, and going. With a flash or HD player, it's a matter of sitting down, connecting it to my computer, checking what's on it, see what's on my computer, choosing, and then deleting and/or transferring from and/or to the player.

Bah.

Unless I decide to keep a collection of 50 or so 512mb 'pre-made' SD cards, Minidiscs are the only way I can do this with a tiny device.

[Sparky191]

Well the point of a HDD is that all of your music is on there already. You only ever connect it to the PC to add new music. You just grab it and go. Assuming its charged. (if its not, you'll wish you had a AA based unit) Really the recent iPods are every bit as small as a MD and a few discs. Probably smaller. Flash players are considerably smaller with less capacity, but its the same as carrying a player only HIMD unit with one one disk with you. At some point you will want to change that MD so you'll return back to where your disks are and choose another.

I reckon you just like the tactile quality of discs. But really theres no real advantage in having your music/data spread over a whole of discs rather than in one place. With a load of disc you are less likely to have a backup. But with all your music on a computer its much easier to have multiple backups. I can see why people like to remove a computer from the music process completely, since I work in IT and somedays I just don't want to look at one. But if you are using NetMD, HiMD, or DVDR or CDRW then you are going to use a computer anyway. Its just is common sense to use a computer to do it rather than spend days recording everthing manually. If you want to avoid a PC you probably are going to stick to Vinyl or CD, or MD (SP). I loved cassettes because I could make my own mixes. I love MD because it can record. Having loads of discs to manage its one feature I never liked. I think HiMD is great because now I need less disks.

However each to their own.

[Deanage]

Well the point of a HDD is that all of your music is on there already. You only ever connect it to the PC to add new music. You just grab it and go. Assuming its charged. (if its not, you'll wish you had a AA based unit) Really the recent iPods are every bit as small as a MD and a few discs. Probably smaller. Flash players are considerably smaller with less capacity, but its the same as carrying a player only HIMD unit with one one disk with you.

I can't see many (if any) Hi-MD users migrating to Flash-based players as the sound quality is, quite frankly, awful. Also (for me anyway), MD/Hi-MD has turned out to be RELIABLE. Yeah, my 3 year old MZG-755 makes weird clacking noises but it still works, unlike some of the more popular HDD players out there...

I can see why people like to remove a computer from the music process completely, since I work in IT and somedays I just don't want to look at one. But if you are using NetMD, HiMD, or DVDR or CDRW then you are going to use a computer anyway. Its just is common sense to use a computer to do it rather than spend days recording everthing manually. If you want to avoid a PC you probably are going to stick to Vinyl or CD, or MD (SP).

I know what you mean about PC's. Sonicstage 3.2 crashes when I try to transfer a song no matter what format and Simple Burner won't even recognize that there is a CD in the drive. However, I can still listen to my music in PCM on Hi-MD's thanks to the fact I don't need a computer to put songs on an MD. Put my CD player on "program", hook up the TOSLINK cable, press record on the Hi-MD unit and play on the CD player and just walk away. To tell the truth it doesn't bother me that much (probably a habit from the pre-netMD days).

[Christopher]

This is off topic, but those problems can most likely be fixed PCManiac. Please make a topic in our Software support forum.

[Sparky191]

I can't see many (if any) Hi-MD users migrating to Flash-based players as the sound quality is, quite frankly, awful.

I can only talk about my own experience. I have a iPod Shuffle, and a Zen Micro. I prefer the sound of both to my MD/HIMD units. The Shuffle is particularly good. If you are interested in some discussion on sound quality, I suggest having a browse through the Head-Fi Portable forum. Theres a lot of intelligent discussion on SQ there.

Also (for me anyway), MD/Hi-MD has turned out to be RELIABLE. Yeah, my 3 year old MZG-755 makes weird clacking noises but it still works, unlike some of the more popular HDD players out there...

I know what you mean about PC's. Sonicstage 3.2 crashes when I try to transfer a song no matter what format and Simple Burner won't even recognize that there is a CD in the drive. However, I can still listen to my music in PCM on Hi-MD's thanks to the fact I don't need a computer to put songs on an MD. Put my CD player on "program", hook up the TOSLINK cable, press record on the Hi-MD unit and play on the CD player and just walk away. To tell the truth it doesn't bother me that much (probably a habit from the pre-netMD days).

So you just prefer to do things slowly. Fair enough. Personally I haven't had any issues with 3.2.

[Deanage]

So you just prefer to do things slowly. Fair enough. Personally I haven't had any issues with 3.2.

Well I don't PREFER to record that way, it's just that my SS3.2 doesn't work and I really can't be stuffed mucking about with my PC so I'm not going to bother when the "traditional" method of recording works (albeit, slowly but the end result is the same).

Thank god I can rename tracks with my SS3.2 though. I remember having many a sore thumb renaming tracks with my pre-Net MD MGZ-755. Not only that but it takes AGES just to input a single character.

[Sparky191]

Theres a certain irony about some called PCManiac who can't be bothered to fix their PC.

Personally I don't have the patience for all that messing with real time. For me HiMD is the only way to do MD.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Sparky191

[Deanage]

PCManiac, as in PCM maniac. PCM is all I record with.

[Sparky191]

PCManiac, as in PCM maniac. PCM is all I record with.

Ahhh that makes a lot more sense considering your previous posts. Just a thought. If you have to explain it by spelling it differently perhaps you should have spelt it PCMmaniac in the first place.

Just out of curiosity, can you, in a portable scenerio, hear the difference between PCM/SP/HiSP? What earphones are you using etc. Personally I can hear a slight difference but only in a quiet enviroment.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Sparky191

[Deanage]

Yeah I can; sometimes I have to strain to tell though. I thought the soundtrack to HERO (Tan Dun, Chinese Philharmonic Orchestra, Kodo drummers of Japan and Iztahk Perlman), sounded pretty good in SP on MD mode until I recorded it all in PCM when I got my Hi-MD walkman. All I can say is, damn, those violins are awesome.

I use Sony MDR-F1 headphones. Crap for noise cancelling but awesome if the environment is quiet. I usually have it too loud to hear the outside environment though.

I suppose you have a point about the username though.