Just why is NetMD uploading impossible?

[Ral-Clan]

Hi,

*** Please note: This is a theoretical discussion - NOT a request for information on how to upload regular MD audio ***

We all know that no standard Minidisc NETMD machines allow uploading via the USB connection. But I was wondering if this disallowance is merely a result of the software/firmware, or if there are no actual physical lines capable of transferring digital audio to the computer via USB in the standard NETMD units - or both.

I was just thinking that if it's merely a "crippling" of the uploading feature in the firmware of the MD unit....could uploading ever be hacked into a unit? I realise that it is probably impractical to ever do, but theoretically would it be possible to hack a standard NetMD walkman to allow digital audio to be transferred via the USB cable (even at real-time)?

I do not own an NETMD walkman, so I am not sure, but don't some NetMD walkmans allow one to "monitor" the playback of the audio on a MD through one's computer speakers via the USB connection? If so, couldn't one just use a program like "Total Recorder" to then capture the audio as it is playing off of the disc - and in doing so have a de-facto digital, real-time uploading capability? Or is this only possible with Hi-MD machines? (even with Hi-MD walkmans, couldn't this method allow one to capture non-analog-mic-input recordings on the computer)?

Brent

Edited November 23, 2005 by Ral-Clan

[KJ_Palmer]

Not sure if it's physically impossible for NetMD to upload, though I can't think why it would be. Surely its all held as 1's and 0's on the discs, like Hi-MD. Presumably you'd need a full Type-R codec on the host PC to interpret/convert the data for SP recordings, which I'm not sure is available.

You can't use NetMD as it stands to play through USB and recorder by Total Recorder etc., as again this function is only available via Hi-MD units (and only with Hi-MD formats). You can use an MD deck's optical out to make digital transfers though...

[Ral-Clan]

You can't use NetMD as it stands to play through USB and recorder by Total Recorder etc., as again this function is only available via Hi-MD units (and only with Hi-MD formats).

So does that mean you can use TOTAL RECORDER to capture digitally (real-time) any audio data being played by a via the USB cable by a Hi-MD walkman, even those tracks which are not "uploadable" (non-microphone recordings)?

Not sure if it's physically impossible for NetMD to upload, though I can't think why it would be. Surely its all held as 1's and 0's on the discs, like Hi-MD. Presumably you'd need a full Type-R codec on the host PC to interpret/convert the data for SP recordings, which I'm not sure is available.

Well, I'm not sure about this, if we're talking (hypothetically) about merely playing the audio on a minidisc walkman, routing it through the USB cable, and actually hearing it through the computer's speakers. I would assume in that case all the decoding would be done in the walkman, and it would merely be channelling a regular uncompressed PCM signal through the USB cable....would be interesting to know if the electronics on the motherboard are even capable of channelling the signal this way (even as a disabled feature).

It would be interesting to know what happens internally when one plays the audio from a Hi-MD walkman via one's computer speakers. Is the ATRAC data decompressed at the walkman end or the computer end?

Not sure if it's physically impossible for NetMD to upload, though I can't think why it would be.

Well, the reason I thought that it might be possible to theoretically "HACK" upload capabilies into a NetMD is that, if the computer CAN get trackname and other data from a disk, then clearly there is some data line that is capable of transferring data from MD walkman to computer, and it's not just a one-way street. Perhaps it would be (theoretically) possible to "hijack" this data line and send digital audio data "up" over it.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Ral-Clan

[KJ_Palmer]

Not quite. You still can't capture 'legacy' format recordings that way - ie. SP, LP2/4 or mono, whether recorded by NetMD or Hi-MD. 2-way USB traffic is disabled for such formats.

You can only use USB as input for Hi-MD format data - Hi-SP, Hi-LP, PCM and (I think) MP3 is also available with Sonicstage 3.3.

And yes, digital recordings are also playable through USB.

[Andicillo]

well this is a very old topic. There even was an upload petition signed by thousands of people asking Sony to enable this feature. They never heard anyone and finally launched Hi-Md that included the upload feature. NetMd has a Physical inability to upload tracks. In fact, when they say that you can check in your tracks made in your own computer, Sonicstage onlycompares the tracks to the database included in the PC. Tracks are never uploaded and there is no sound information that can travel through the USB cable in NetMd Format. ... Sorry

If you want to upload tracks, do it the long way (real time) .. you can use WinNmd by Christian klukas. get it here http://winnmd.net/

It's a great application for real-time uploads using Netmd machines.

[marcnet]

HIMDRenderer can also control the playback of NetMD devices and record the sound from the NetMD device via your PC sound card, just like Winnmd can.

well this is a very old topic. There even was an upload petition signed by thousands of people asking Sony to enable this feature. They never heard anyone and finally launched Hi-Md that included the upload feature. NetMd has a Physical inability to upload tracks. In fact, when they say that you can check in your tracks made in your own computer, Sonicstage onlycompares the tracks to the database included in the PC. Tracks are never uploaded and there is no sound information that can travel through the USB cable in NetMd Format. ... Sorry

If you want to upload tracks, do it the long way (real time) .. you can use WinNmd by Christian klukas. get it here http://winnmd.net/

It's a great application for real-time uploads using Netmd machines.

[Ral-Clan]

well this is a very old topic.

(SNIP)

If you want to upload tracks, do it the long way (real time) .. you can use WinNmd by Christian klukas. get it here http://winnmd.net/

It's a great application for real-time uploads using Netmd machines.

I Think you misunderstand my initial post. I am not requesting information on how to upload my Minidiscs to computers. I know MDLP recordings are not uploadable from a NETMD walkman digitally. I know about Hi-MD etc. and analog transfers of regular MDs (been doing that for years).

What I am discussing here are the technological reasons behind WHY NetMD recordings cannot be uploaded, and whether or not (theoretically) NetMD devices (non Hi-MD) could ever be hacked in hardware or software to make it possible (although I realise it would never be practical to do so).

This is just a theoretical discussion as to the barriers / possibilities to "hacking in" an uploading function if one had full access to the Firmware / CPU / motherboard documentation of a regular NetMD walkman.

Edited November 23, 2005 by Ral-Clan

[zerodB]

TBH, I think the hardware wasn't simply designed with that in mind.

Also, Kevin just mention the fact that there was no software SP codec available. I speculate that this may be due to licencing arangements between SONY and DOLBY, who unwittingly developed some of the ATRAC technology independently of Sony.

[Sparky191]

It also makes it much harder to crack the encryption if its locked in hardware and not availible in software.