Recording Optical Input On PC

[pol doc]

I realise that recording music from minidisk into a computer has already been extensively posted on and I hope this is not a repition of advise already given. I have read many of those posts but have not yet found an answer to my problem.

I have taken the advise of many of the experts posting in these forums and bought a minidisk deck with an optical output (getting hold of one was a herculean task in itself! Lol). I have a S/PDIF-in on my computer. The computer is a Shuttle SN25P the integrated soundcard that I am trying to use is listed as VIA Envy24PT. Using the VIA Vinyl Audio Control Panel I can select digital in and am able to hear the minidisk playing through the optical line. This is however accompanied by a warning message which reads "The speaker output is disabled when in digital-in mode, and you must select S/PDIF input source!" With only the option for 'ok'.

At first when i did this there was still no sound but the levels showed music was playing. Under the 'digital' tab in the VIA Vinyl Audio control panel there are several options for 'S/PDIF monitor'. When 'Loop back S/PDIF to front speakers' is selected I can hear the music through the computer speakers. Next i tried to record this sound. I started attempting to use Musicmatch which was recommended for this task on one or another minidisk forum. Under Record Source I selected System Mixer, assuming that this was where the sound was coming from and since none of the other sources applied (the options are CD drive, Mic in or Line in). Musicmatch made a recording but when played back it was just silence. Assuming that i needed a program supporting the 'use digital-in as source' option i began downloading and trying different sound recording programs. This forum suggests Audacity, but that did not work apparantly for the same reasons as musicmatch, I also think Dart CD recorder didnt work for the same reason. I tried WinMD but my minidisk deck with the optical out is not a NetMD so that wouldnt work. Creative's media source organizer has the S/PDIF source option but says 'This feature is not available for your selected audio device' when i try to use it. Other input sources are as above, not getting any sound.

Phew! Sorry its a long one, just trying to be thorough. I am at a loss. I have no idea how to procceed. I tried looking on the VIA website but could find no information or instructions there. I extensively searched their forums but it seems no one else has tried to do anything like this with this equipment. This got me wondering, am i just using the wrong equipment? Should i look at buying another soundcard for my computer and if so, which one? (I am willing to spend some money here but i am on a budget. Expansion slots are listed as 1x PCI-Express 16X and 1x PCI-Express 1X on the shuttle website. I think my graphics card is in the 16x slot, if that matters) I am so frustrated i consdered buying a seperate rackmounted CD burner, burning the MDs to CDs then uploading those through CD-Rom drive into computer, but i'm not even certain that this expensive, time consuming method would definately work. Arg! LOL as you can see i am at the end of my tether here. Please help if you can. All and any suggestions are very welcom and highly appreciated.

[KrazyIvan]

I am just guessing here but I think you may have your S/PDIF input muted in the recording mixer.

Double click your volume icon in the system tray, go to options, then properties. Click the recording radio button and then make sure you have check marks on all the listings under "Show the following volume controls:" section. One of those should be your S/PDIF input. The mixer will show up again when you click "OK" but this time it is the recording mixer. click the "select" box under your S/PDIF input and adjust the volume accordingly.

[pol doc]

I am just guessing here but I think you may have your S/PDIF input muted in the recording mixer.

Thanks for your quick reply but unfortunately its not that. Although that has reminded me of another piece of info i can give you that may help. In that controler (ie the windows one) the mute box on the PCM SPDIF is unchecked *and* greyed out. All the other check boxes are available for checking/unchecking but this one. Dunno if thats meaningful but I thought it might indicate that the windows audio controler doesnt consider that source usable at all. Also in that controller under 'Properties\Adjust volume for\recording' SPDIF doesnt appear at all (its just the usual suspects - CD, line, mic and stereo mix). Again not too sure how relevant that is, just trying to tell you everything that could help spark an idea.

[KrazyIvan]

If it is greyed out (and yes that is meaningful, you need to be able to select it to record from it) then it can be one of three things.

1. It is a defective input (I don't think it is this but it's possible)

2. Improper driver installation.

3. Some sort of SCMS protection keeping you from recording the audio stream.

I tried googling some info on any copy protection that may be on your box but could not find anything conclusive. I would start focussing on the drivers.

EDIT* You are trying to record from the optical output on the MD deck, correct? If that is so, the MD deck will definitly have SCMS protection. I don't know if the sound card discards this info. It usually does since SCMS does not normally apply to computer audio. Things are changing though and I have heard of some manufacturers implementing it, mainly Creative.

[pol doc]

I would start focussing on the drivers.

I have already tried updating the drivers through control panel\system\hardware\device manager. It says mine are the most up to date. I uninstalled and reinstalled the VIA Vinyl Control Panel. No difference. I think we might be stuck.

Considering Plan B - do you think I could fix this by going out tomorrow and buying a different soundcard? If I can be pretty sure of that then i'd be willing to do it. Its worth the money to get out of this frustrating situation. If thats the case could someone please recommend a soundcard? Remember, its a PCI-E slot, btw. Thanks

[pol doc]

Btw, not entirely sure if you understood me correctly above. Its only the mute box that is greyed out. The actual slider seems to be active and fine.

[guyj1]

I am just guessing here but I think you may have your S/PDIF input muted in the recording mixer.

Double click your volume icon in the system tray, go to options, then properties. Click the recording radio button and then make sure you have check marks on all the listings under "Show the following volume controls:" section. One of those should be your S/PDIF input. The mixer will show up again when you click "OK" but this time it is the recording mixer. click the "select" box under your S/PDIF input and adjust the volume accordingly.

I've found that sometimes when switching between standard line in and SPDIF, you have to reboot to get it to work. Turn on the SPDIF then reboot, this may help...good luck

[pol doc]

Thanks for that one Guyj but i have rebooted several times trying to get it to work and installing the different recording progs, unfortunately not making any difference.

I really think its lookin like Plan B - get a different sound card. Can any one recommend me to one that should do the trick please?

[dex Otaku]

I'm not sure what options MM offers for recording source [it depends on both the recording software -and- the audio drivers you're using] but have you tried any software [Audacity I'm relatively sure supports this] which allows you to select a recording source independent of the system mixer? You should be able to [assuming the audio drivers support it] select "SP/DIF in" as the recording source.

Using "system mixer" might not work because, as a source, it means "what you hear through your speakers is what you will be recording". Many drivers with digital inputs [or ones for many ASIO supported cards with analogue inputs] won't let you -hear- the input unless you turn on monitoring - and, funnily enough, once you turn on monitoring in the system mixer, it usually defeats the ability to record from that input [because with monitoring on, it's already active].

So, here are my suggestions in short:

* leave monitoring off in the mixer app

* if monitoring can be turned on in the recording app, it shouldn't affect things

* see if you can select the SP/DIF input independently in your recording app

Also note - many sounds cards with SP/DIF inputs don't respect SCMS. Some ignore it completely and allow anything to be recorded; some ignore it completely and don't allow anything to be recorded; and of course, some respect it.

If the recordings you're trying to copy from the deck are 1st-generation analogue [i.e. recorded live on your MD fom a mic, or recorded from any analogue source] they should be copiable according to SCMS rules. Recordings made from an extrernal DAC usually should be copiable this way, too [from pro DACs they should actually be marked as completely unprotected]. Recordings made from a CD player via optical in should not be copiable by SCMS rules.

[KrazyIvan]

I have an external card. Extigy to be exact. That uses USB so no problem there.

Yeah, nobody give me grief about it!

It works. Never had trouble with the optical I/O's. The feature I love the most is the "record what you hear" option. I never have to mess with the recording mixer unless I am adjusting levels, which is rare. It is outdated and can only be found mostly on eBay nowadays. Our studio rig has an Audiophile 2496 but that has no optical I/O's just coaxial-digital and line level analogue so that would not work for you.

I don't think I would go searching for a new card just yet. Did this card come with your system or was it purchased seperate? For some reason I was under the impression that this was onboard sound. If seperate, have you contacted the manufacturer for tech support? Same goes if it came with your rig. If it is onboard sound, did you check the BIOS to see if there are options that may be turned off?

EDIT Dex: I forgot totally about the monitoring quirk, good call.

[pol doc]

Well i have tried disabling the monitor. As far as i can see both musicmatch and audacity offer only the same old options as sources (CD, Line, Mic, Aux, Video and stereo mixer) No sign of a SPDIF in either. I am new to Audacity so i could be overlooking something there, if any experienced Audacity users tell me i'm wrong I'd be delighted! The only prog i've tried where SPDIF is an option is Creative's Media source oranizer but it tells me the feature is not available for my selected input device when i try to use it.

This is starting to sound like some form of protection now, isn't it? The minidisks are backups of CDs I had to leave behind when i moved overseas because they were too heavy to bring with. Now im moving again and i would like to be able to ditch all those old minidisks too and just take a large hard drive mp3 player. So they are first generation copies from cds and therefore will have copy protection inbuilt.

Btw KrazyIvan it is onboard it came as part of a barebones unit. the motherboard is nvidea nforce4 the barebones is a shuttle sn25p. for full specs i included a link to shuttle page in my starter thread. I cant see anything applicable to the soundcard in the bios. I guess i should probably try going thru the hell of talking to a customer support guy who doesnt know what a minidisk is (uh is that just like a small disk?) about computer parts that i dont know enough about.

I really think its lookin like Plan B - get a different sound card. Can any one recommend me to one that should do the trick please?

Am I a pessimist or what? I *REALLY* think its lookin like Plan B - get a different sound card. Can any one recommend me to one that should do the trick please?

[dex Otaku]

The only prog i've tried where SPDIF is an option is Creative's Media source oranizer but it tells me the feature is not available for my selected input device when i try to use it.

. . .

Am I a pessimist or what? I *REALLY* think its lookin like Plan B - get a different sound card. Can any one recommend me to one that should do the trick please?

If the card's mixer applet itself doesn't let you specifically select SP/DIF as a recording source, then you're probably out of luck.

You might try doing a search on google for something like the model # and SPDIF or SP/DIF or even SP-DIF. There might be other fora out there with information on alternate drivers or possible hacks to get the interface to actually do the job it's supposed to.

The minidisks are backups of CDs I had to leave behind when i moved overseas because they were too heavy to bring with. Now im moving again and i would like to be able to ditch all those old minidisks too and just take a large hard drive mp3 player. So they are first generation copies from cds and therefore will have copy protection inbuilt.

Backups made by digital or analogue means? If they were optically-made copies, then yes, they'll be protected by SCMS. I can't say for certain whether your sound card respects that, though, assuming you find a way to actually make it record using SP/DIF.

[eriktous]

Under the 'digital' tab in the VIA Vinyl Audio control panel there are several options for 'S/PDIF monitor'.

Could you post a screenshot of the 'digital in' tab? VIA has a guide to this Vinyl control panel (here), but they, quite cunningly, skip over the 'digital in' tab.

[pol doc]

Could you post a screenshot of the 'digital in' tab?

Am demonstrating my noobiness now, lol. I cant figure out how to post a pic in here. I dont have any webspace to set it up as a link. How do I do it?

[raintheory]

you can add the pic as an attachment, much in the same way you would add an attachment to an email.

theres an option when you are posting that lets you add attachments.

[Richard]

Am demonstrating my noobiness now, lol. I cant figure out how to post a pic in here. I dont have any webspace to set it up as a link. How do I do it?

Post it as an attachment - edit your post and browse to upload your pic, then click on "Add to Post" to insert it into your post.

[raintheory]

Also, in regards to your initial question. If you are able to hear the music, or at least see that it is in fact coming into your computer... you might be able to record it using Total Recorder. Might be worth a shot, and a bit cheaper than a new soundcard at that .

A few people here in the forums have used Total Recorder to record the digital signal while playing back their HiMD through sonicstage.

Edited February 3, 2006 by raintheory

[Levanel]

I get the same problem, though how I fixed it was more trivial than installing drivers for it.

What I did was disable the integrated sound chipset on my motherboard (most motherboards have video and audio support without the need of a video card or soundcard) -- couldn't have two sound devices coexisting together. From there, SPDIF output was the same as output from a speaker.

[cleopatra]

Am demonstrating my noobiness now, lol. I cant figure out how to post a pic in here. I dont have any webspace to set it up as a link. How do I do it?

Hi Polrus,

As well as you, i'm a beginer with more than 100 old Minidiscs trying desperate to trasfer digitaly all those audio files into my p/c,.. i have been trying many possibilities: Edirol ua-1ex USB Audio Interface, Xitel MD-Port I/O with no success due to a SCMS; i try to record digitally the MD's to a CD's, ripping with Xilisoft program and nothing either because of loss of sound quality,.... anyway; i am tired an frustrated too,.....

Polrus, if you already got it, Pease,PLEASE!!! let mi know how to do it!!! I have an Old but pretty good quality deck Sony MDS-S39 with Optical Output and a Toshiba Satellite Laptop M55 Series w/ Windows XP.

I hope i am on time for your answer.

[cleopatra]

I realise that recording music from minidisk into a computer has already been extensively posted on and I hope this is not a repition of advise already given. I have read many of those posts but have not yet found an answer to my problem.

I have taken the advise of many of the experts posting in these forums and bought a minidisk deck with an optical output (getting hold of one was a herculean task in itself! Lol). I have a S/PDIF-in on my computer. The computer is a Shuttle SN25P the integrated soundcard that I am trying to use is listed as VIA Envy24PT. Using the VIA Vinyl Audio Control Panel I can select digital in and am able to hear the minidisk playing through the optical line. This is however accompanied by a warning message which reads "The speaker output is disabled when in digital-in mode, and you must select S/PDIF input source!" With only the option for 'ok'.

At first when i did this there was still no sound but the levels showed music was playing. Under the 'digital' tab in the VIA Vinyl Audio control panel there are several options for 'S/PDIF monitor'. When 'Loop back S/PDIF to front speakers' is selected I can hear the music through the computer speakers. Next i tried to record this sound. I started attempting to use Musicmatch which was recommended for this task on one or another minidisk forum. Under Record Source I selected System Mixer, assuming that this was where the sound was coming from and since none of the other sources applied (the options are CD drive, Mic in or Line in). Musicmatch made a recording but when played back it was just silence. Assuming that i needed a program supporting the 'use digital-in as source' option i began downloading and trying different sound recording programs. This forum suggests Audacity, but that did not work apparantly for the same reasons as musicmatch, I also think Dart CD recorder didnt work for the same reason. I tried WinMD but my minidisk deck with the optical out is not a NetMD so that wouldnt work. Creative's media source organizer has the S/PDIF source option but says 'This feature is not available for your selected audio device' when i try to use it. Other input sources are as above, not getting any sound.

Phew! Sorry its a long one, just trying to be thorough. I am at a loss. I have no idea how to procceed. I tried looking on the VIA website but could find no information or instructions there. I extensively searched their forums but it seems no one else has tried to do anything like this with this equipment. This got me wondering, am i just using the wrong equipment? Should i look at buying another soundcard for my computer and if so, which one? (I am willing to spend some money here but i am on a budget. Expansion slots are listed as 1x PCI-Express 16X and 1x PCI-Express 1X on the shuttle website. I think my graphics card is in the 16x slot, if that matters) I am so frustrated i consdered buying a seperate rackmounted CD burner, burning the MDs to CDs then uploading those through CD-Rom drive into computer, but i'm not even certain that this expensive, time consuming method would definately work. Arg! LOL as you can see i am at the end of my tether here. Please help if you can. All and any suggestions are very welcom and highly appreciated.

Hi Polrus,

As well as you, i'm a beginer with more than 100 old Minidiscs trying desperate to trasfer digitaly all those audio files into my p/c,.. i have been trying many possibilities: Edirol ua-1ex USB Audio Interface, Xitel MD-Port I/O with no success due to a SCMS; i try to record digitally the MD's to a CD's, ripping with Xilisoft program and nothing either because of loss of sound quality,.... anyway; i am tired an frustrated too,.....

Polrus, if you already got it, Pease,PLEASE!!! let mi know how to do it!!! I have an Old but pretty good quality deck Sony MDS-S39 with Optical Output and a Toshiba Satellite Laptop M55 Series w/ Windows XP.

I hope i am on time for your answer.

[cleopatra]

I get the same problem, though how I fixed it was more trivial than installing drivers for it.

What I did was disable the integrated sound chipset on my motherboard (most motherboards have video and audio support without the need of a video card or soundcard) -- couldn't have two sound devices coexisting together. From there, SPDIF output was the same as output from a speaker.

Hi Levanel,

Do you think that it will be possible for me to get more detailes from the way that you desable the integrated sound chipset? I have a laptop Toshiba Satellite M55 Series w/Windows XP i bought it with all included and i am trying to transfer optically to it, all the audio files i have in my old Minidiscs,.. i have been trying many possibilities: Edirol ua-1ex USB Audio Interface, Xitel MD-Port I/O with no success due to a SCMS; i tryed to record digitally the MD's to a CD's, ripping with Xilisoft program and no good news either because of loss of sound quality,.... anyway; i am tired an frustrated. I am no expert but if you let mi know how to do it, i will try my best. By the way i have an Old but pretty good quality deck Sony MDS-S39 with Optical Output.

I hope i am on time for your answer.