Just ordered the MZ-RH910 and a ECM-M907

[geestring]

hi,

I went through the manual way...

overall the quality to me sounds pretty good...it may be better with a battery box...

im noticing that theres a lot of bass... a little too much maybe.. i'll post it in the gallery after i edit it to see if its up to par

[A440]

Live concerts tend to have more bass than you think. Part is room acoustics, part is that people like to feel the bass physically.

So you're probably getting an accurate recording. Once you have an accurate recording, you can tweak it if you want. Upload, Save as .wav and then open the file in Audacity, highlight the whole thing and look in Effect. With Equalization you can lower the bass.

[geestring]

is audacity free?

I got soundforge and Acid...

[A440]

Audacity is free, but you can do the same thing in Soundforge or any decent audio editor. You can also Amplify or Normalize the recording if you think it's too quiet.

[fatmuttony]

The attenuator is a volume control. Turn it to its maximum, not its minimum. The higher the volume, the more comes through, just like if you were using it with headphones.

Also make sure you are plugged in to mic-in (red) and not line-in (white).

Is it possible to turn up your PC speakers enough to annoy the neighbors? The way to test is with real home-stereo speakers, or your TV blasting, not dinky little PC speakers.

NIN is going to be a challenge. I hadn't realized you were going for the true torture test right out of the box.

Depending on how close you are, they may be just too loud for your mics to handle. The attenuator can handle most loud music but not the kind of bass that makes your eardrums cave in. For something that loud, you are better off with a battery module like this one via Line-In, because it helps the mic handle a little more sheer volume. But it's probably too late for you to get it via mailorder in Canada.

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

So go with reduced expectations but try this:

Mic-->Attenuator-->Mic-In. Turn the attenuator up to maximum and then back off by about 1/8 of a turn, just a hair.

You need to set the level manually (always). Press REC and PAUSE at the same time (display will blink), Nav/Menu (whatever it is on that unit), click the center button up (two notches?) to REC SET and press >, click down to REC Volume and press >, click to Manual and press >. It will start at 13/30. Push it up a bit to 16/30 (turn the wheel). Hide the unit in your pocket as you go in. Put it on HOLD. When you want to start recording, take it off HOLD and push Pause again (you might even be able to do it without taking out the unit) and the time display will start changing. If you have any light and no one's looking, try to take a look at the level meter and see that it's above the first dash (halfway) but well below the second one (overload).

Practice this process a few times at home--it becomes easier as you do it more often.

No guarantees. NIN is a tough one. But I did do a Metallica show like that and it came through.

I'm a bit confused by the bit about the battery module. I thought the point of the line-in input is that it does not contain a pre-amp, and so, you need an additional pre-amp between the mic and the line-in input. Does this mean that the battery module that you linked to also functions as a pre-amp?

[greenmachine]

A battery module does not preamplify in any way, it just provides the necessary power to the mics, which is absent at the line-in. The line-in does not preamplify, so it can accept much higher input levels without clipping. Use the mic-in for recording quiet to medium, the line-in for high to very high sound pressure levels. The point about battery life extension of the recorder when using external power for the mics is a sheer lie (or too insignificant to be noticable) by the way.

[fatmuttony]

A battery module does not preamplify in any way, it just provides the necessary power to the mics, which is absent at the line-in. The line-in does not preamplify, so it can accept much higher input levels without clipping. Use the mic-in for recording quiet to medium, the line-in for high to very high sound pressure levels. The point about battery life extension of the recorder when using external power for the mics is a sheer lie (or too insignificant to be noticable) by the way.

Thanks for the clarification. However, that brings up some more questions for me:

1) In the absence of a battery module, no matter how loud the music is, Mic > Line-in cannot produce a recording. Correct?

2) THe pre-amp, used in the Mic > Pre-amp > Line-in configuration, also performs the function of providing power for the microphone?

3) If 2 is true, then one can use the pre-amp as just a battery module by using low gain setting on the pre-amp?

[A440]

1) I once met someone at a loud concert who said he was going directly mic-->Line-in. This never worked for me. It is conceivable that some kind of overwhelmingly loud signal through a very sensitive mic would provide a recording through Line-In. But I doubt it would be at any useful level.

2) and 3) By definition, a preamp provides amplification after the signal has left the microphone. However, most preamps now also provide some power to the mics, so what you're actually getting is a combination of preamp and battery box.

I have owned, and sold, two preamps. I tried them because so many people insist they are the key to a great recording. I found both of them completely useless because as soon as the music got at all loud, they would clip.

One was an old Sound Professionals (PREAMP-1?) which only worked as a preamp, not a battery box. Any gain at all on moderate volume music led to clipping. They have since changed that design so their preamp can also be used at zero gain like a battery box.

The other was the Reactive Sounds Boost Box, which has weird design features like a long fat spiral telephone-style cord (hard-wired) that ruins it for stealthy use. Its clipping LED would go on when it was turned up even slightly at a concert with moderate volume. And there was no reason to carry around the Boost Box (which is also larger than it has to be) when a little battery module would do the same job.

Maybe if you're recording birdcalls in a forest somewhere a preamp is just the thing.

Otherwise, greenmachine's guidelines--straight into mic-in for quiet sounds, mic-battery module-Line-in for loud--are right. While you're saving up for a battery box, or if the music is going to be loud but not overwhelmingly loud, you can also go Mic-attenuator (headphone volume control, like the one from Radio Shack that's my avatar, or the Maplin VC-1)-Mic-in.

I started using the attenuator when battery boxes were nearly as big as the MD and hard to stealth. Now that they make little modules with 12V button batteries, I generally use the module.

[greenmachine]

1) You have to differ between mics that need to be powered [pre-polarized condenser a.k.a. electret (usually require voltages between 1.5 and 10V, suited for MD recording) or traditional non-pre-polarizd concondenser (usually require ~48V phantom power, can't be powered by the MD rec's bias voltage)] and mics that don't need to be powered (dynamic type).

The pre-polarized condenser (electret), which requires a relatively low voltage and current, is the most common type nowadays. The sound quality is usually significantly higher compared to non-powered (dynamic) microphones, without a bias voltage they won't output any usable signal though.

[fatmuttony]

Thanks greenmachine and A440. Let me explain my problem at length, maybe you can give me some ideas.

I wanted to use my MD Recorder for multiple purposes, to record speech (one-on-one interviews mostly) and to record live performance music. Unfortunately for us in India, Sony does not sell MDs in the Indian market. So, I asked my cousin to pick one up for me from London. Now, this cousin of mine bought the MZ-RH710 which has only line-in input. I have two choices:

1) I can dump my present MD Recorder, and buy a new one with mic-in and line-in, and then buy a battery box, and then start recording, which will take me between 3 and 5 months I think.

2) I can try to make this one work, by putting some kind of pre-amp between the mic and the lin-in input.

What do you suggest I do?

[A440]

Ah, the problem becomes clearer.

For interviews, get a preamp. It's your only solution.

For music, unless it's fairly quiet, look at this thread and build (or have someone handy build for you) a battery box.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=71008

And find someone visiting the USA who can bring back a unit with a mic jack.

[fatmuttony]

Ah, the problem becomes clearer.

For interviews, get a preamp. It's your only solution.

For music, unless it's fairly quiet, look at this thread and build (or have someone handy build for you) a battery box.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?s=&sh...indpost&p=71008

And find someone visiting the USA who can bring back a unit with a mic jack.

LOL! You read my mind. I just got back from that topic, and I was thinking, "Ok, I could get the pre-amp for the interviews, and then build a battery box for live music recordings..." Thanks a ton, you've really cleared up my head, which has been tortured for the past couple of weeks.

I have some more questions regarding microphones, and I think I'm sort of hijacking geestring's thread. Should I start a new thread to ask them?

[greenmachine]

Do as you please, we'll find it anyway.

[fatmuttony]

Do as you please, we'll find it anyway.

I decided to start a new thread. It's here.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Fat Muttony

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

My cardioid mics are smaller then the AT 853 mics they measure 12 mm x 14 mm

We have a new preamp that has a real gain control and works well with the AT 853 mics that provides up to 20 db of gain and is so quiet it can be used with a mic input or a line input with ZERO noise. That way you can get the boost you need and nomalize Less. It comes in two versions 3 wire mini XLR or 2 wire mini stereo 3.5 mm in and out the distortion with a -9 db signal is 0.02%. The self noise is -98 db with the gain full no input connected. Fre

Chris Church

Church Audio

1) I once met someone at a loud concert who said he was going directly mic-->Line-in. This never worked for me. It is conceivable that some kind of overwhelmingly loud signal through a very sensitive mic would provide a recording through Line-In. But I doubt it would be at any useful level.

2) and 3) By definition, a preamp provides amplification after the signal has left the microphone. However, most preamps now also provide some power to the mics, so what you're actually getting is a combination of preamp and battery box.

I have owned, and sold, two preamps. I tried them because so many people insist they are the key to a great recording. I found both of them completely useless because as soon as the music got at all loud, they would clip.

One was an old Sound Professionals (PREAMP-1?) which only worked as a preamp, not a battery box. Any gain at all on moderate volume music led to clipping. They have since changed that design so their preamp can also be used at zero gain like a battery box.

The other was the Reactive Sounds Boost Box, which has weird design features like a long fat spiral telephone-style cord (hard-wired) that ruins it for stealthy use. Its clipping LED would go on when it was turned up even slightly at a concert with moderate volume. And there was no reason to carry around the Boost Box (which is also larger than it has to be) when a little battery module would do the same job.

Maybe if you're recording birdcalls in a forest somewhere a preamp is just the thing.

Otherwise, greenmachine's guidelines--straight into mic-in for quiet sounds, mic-battery module-Line-in for loud--are right. While you're saving up for a battery box, or if the music is going to be loud but not overwhelmingly loud, you can also go Mic-attenuator (headphone volume control, like the one from Radio Shack that's my avatar, or the Maplin VC-1)-Mic-in.

I started using the attenuator when battery boxes were nearly as big as the MD and hard to stealth. Now that they make little modules with 12V button batteries, I generally use the module.

You should try our new ST-9000 preamp it has less then 0.02% distortion with a -9 db input. This is about 10 db to 20 db more then your AT 853 mics will put out. This preamp works with AT 853 mics I have two versions one with three wire mini xlr and 2 wire stereo mini jacks it provides 20 db of gain via a real gain control and has a high pass filter at 80hz that can be bypassed all this for $150 for the 2 wire and $175 for the three wire. This preamp has a self noise of -98 db full spectrum freq resp of 20hz to 90khz FLAT.

Chris Church

Church Audio

1) I once met someone at a loud concert who said he was going directly mic-->Line-in. This never worked for me. It is conceivable that some kind of overwhelmingly loud signal through a very sensitive mic would provide a recording through Line-In. But I doubt it would be at any useful level.

2) and 3) By definition, a preamp provides amplification after the signal has left the microphone. However, most preamps now also provide some power to the mics, so what you're actually getting is a combination of preamp and battery box.

I have owned, and sold, two preamps. I tried them because so many people insist they are the key to a great recording. I found both of them completely useless because as soon as the music got at all loud, they would clip.

One was an old Sound Professionals (PREAMP-1?) which only worked as a preamp, not a battery box. Any gain at all on moderate volume music led to clipping. They have since changed that design so their preamp can also be used at zero gain like a battery box.

The other was the Reactive Sounds Boost Box, which has weird design features like a long fat spiral telephone-style cord (hard-wired) that ruins it for stealthy use. Its clipping LED would go on when it was turned up even slightly at a concert with moderate volume. And there was no reason to carry around the Boost Box (which is also larger than it has to be) when a little battery module would do the same job.

Maybe if you're recording birdcalls in a forest somewhere a preamp is just the thing.

Otherwise, greenmachine's guidelines--straight into mic-in for quiet sounds, mic-battery module-Line-in for loud--are right. While you're saving up for a battery box, or if the music is going to be loud but not overwhelmingly loud, you can also go Mic-attenuator (headphone volume control, like the one from Radio Shack that's my avatar, or the Maplin VC-1)-Mic-in.

I started using the attenuator when battery boxes were nearly as big as the MD and hard to stealth. Now that they make little modules with 12V button batteries, I generally use the module.

[fatmuttony]

You should try our new ST-9000 preamp it has less then 0.02% distortion with a -9 db input. This is about 10 db to 20 db more then your AT 853 mics will put out. This preamp works with AT 853 mics I have two versions one with three wire mini xlr and 2 wire stereo mini jacks it provides 20 db of gain via a real gain control and has a high pass filter at 80hz that can be bypassed all this for $150 for the 2 wire and $175 for the three wire. This preamp has a self noise of -98 db full spectrum freq resp of 20hz to 90khz FLAT.

Thanks for the info. This model (ST-9000) is not listed on the eBay page that is linked out of your signature/footer right? Could you give me an idea of how much this preamp will cost me? And also, do you ship to India, because I live in Bangalore, INdia? Would you prefer I PMed you?

Thanks again.