What 3rd Gen?

[lecram1971]

Why everybody is talking of a 3rd gen model, for what I see it´s a 2ndgen+

The only new of it is the new bit rates that are in hardware, but the same bit rate you can use in the others HI-MD by software.

For me is a 2nd gen, for live recording with few more improvements. Is like you said the NH-600 is 1st gen and NH-700 is 2nd gen because you can use a mic.

For me a unit that can be call 3rd gen is because can do important things that the other can´t, for example play MP3, that´s a big change that you can´t do in the 1st gen, not by hardware or software.

Use, for example, bigger disk (that I always dream will appear and be compatible with 1st gen Units...dream a little dream), play Atrac lossles (if the older can´t) etc., when things like that happend I think it will have the honor to be call 3rd Gen Unit.

[The Low Volta]

one can fight over what makes a generation (1st gen were all released at the same time, same specs/features,...) but this would definitely be 3rd gen for me:

- it actually remembers recording settings! this alone is a giant leap forward (and definitely something 1st and 2nd gen couldn't)

- it might (hasn't been confirmed of course) record in the added bitrates (like 352) which 1st and 2nd gen can't

- it is released almost a year after 2nd gen

- ... (there will probably be some more reasons I don't know yet or I temporarily forgot)

PS: NH700 2nd gen as it can record from mic? I think that is very strange reasoning (there have always been downloaders/players and recorders within one generation) and if you are using that idea of one added major feature as a basis of separating generations you'd get NH600 = gen 1, NH700/800 = gen 2 (mic), NH900/1= gen 3 (line out), RH710D = gen 4 (MP3-support), RH910/10 = gen 5 (MP3+mic), DH10P = gen 6 (or is a camera no major feature ), M10/100 = gen 7 (mac compatability)... (and I'm obviously forgetting the Japanese player only models here) so that'd make the RH1 what? gen 8?

but of course this kind of reasoning would be pretty daft

[lecram1971]

PS: NH700 2nd gen as it can record from mic? I think that is very strange reasoning (there have always been downloaders/players and recorders within one generation) and if you are using that idea of one added major feature as a basis of separating generations you'd get NH600 = gen 1, NH700/800 = gen 2 (mic), NH900/1= gen 3 (line out), RH710D = gen 4 (MP3-support), RH910/10 = gen 5 (MP3+mic), DH10P = gen 6 (or is a camera no major feature ), M10/100 = gen 7 (mac compatability)... (and I'm obviously forgetting the Japanese player only models here) so that'd make the RH1 what? gen 8?

but of course this kind of reasoning would be pretty daft

That´s my point, Not for little improvements you can talk of a new Generation, you are just saying the same thing.

[The Low Volta]

maybe you think I'm saying the same thing... but

1) I didn't call NH700 2nd gen and as far as I have noticed, noone did except ou in your first post. The standard idea seems to be: NH600D/600/700/800/900/1 = 1st gen, RH710D/710/910/10/DH10P = 2nd gen, MZ10/100 = gen 2+1/2 (or even 3 according to some ppl)

2) I do think the RH1 is a separate gen, as I think the additional features for recording are major enough to speak of a another gen

so while I am saying that it is kinda rediculous to state every minor change as a generation, I'm definitely not saying what you're saying I'm afraid

[minidix]

I agree with Lecram. Without new media or codecs, it can't be considered a new generation. To be a third gen Hi-MD device, it has at least to record in Atrac Loseless.

Anyway, it would be stupid to record only in disk hungry PCM or lossy (lousy) bitrates again.

[lecram1971]

maybe you think I'm saying the same thing... but

1) I didn't call NH700 2nd gen and as far as I have noticed, noone did except ou in your first post. The standard idea seems to be: NH600D/600/700/800/900/1 = 1st gen, RH710D/710/910/10/DH10P = 2nd gen, MZ10/100 = gen 2+1/2 (or even 3 according to some ppl)

2) I do think the RH1 is a separate gen, as I think the additional features for recording are major enough to speak of a another gen

so while I am saying that it is kinda rediculous to state every minor change as a generation, I'm definitely not saying what you're saying I'm afraid

What I said about the NH-600 and NH-700 was in a ironic way. I know there is no change in gen for that minimal diference (mic or not mic), it was as a example (as joke) of what I think is this RH1, because for me is the same as all second gen, with new recordings feature, but not a change in the technology, in that is what I said you are thinking the same as I am, when you make a joke of NH-600 first gen, NH-700 second and so on. I know you were parodian my statement, but you were parodian a joke, sorry if it make a confusion.

For you, instead, the RH-1 is a new gen and you give your reasons, the recording features.

May be you are correct and is me the one who desire to much when I want a bigger change in the technology in HI-MD to talk of a new gen.

[The Low Volta]

ok...now it's clear to me too. and I agree the gen-thing is quite subjective!

I would love some more changes (and thus a REAL new gen) but I do think there have been a few good changes made...but really for me the one major reason to talk of the RH1 as a new gen is that I would only consider this one model for an upgrade and not even one of the 2nd gen's...

besides, I'm afraid this could be the last gen ever... it looks like the 'ultimate-recorder' that Sony might support for a few years till the HD/flash-technology has overcome its child-diseases and takes its place in the semi-pro and amateur recording niche...

so perhaps we will agree pretty soon on the whole gen thing as we might be forced to accept that it is the last gen

[Mikami]

I would love some more changes (and thus a REAL new gen) but I do think there have been a few good changes made...but really for me the one major reason to talk of the RH1 as a new gen is that I would only consider this one model for an upgrade and not even one of the 2nd gen's...

besides, I'm afraid this could be the last gen ever...

Now, that is sweet and sour! Don't be sad, yet. I doubt that HI-MD finnished, yet. For years people said that normal MD was dead, but it kept on ticking. Heck, Cassette and cassette recorders are still being put out. And HI-MD is not in as bad shape as the cassette is. I agree with you I think I too would consider tthis new model for an upgrade it really looks nice.

So, what are these changes you speak of? How would you like Sony to change HI-MD recorders and players?

A friendly MD user,

Mikami

[1kyle]

HD recorders will for the forseeable future suffer from the major problems of high current consumption and "ruggedability". Hard disks are precision devices that don't take kindly to the sort of "robust" use that a portable (as opposed to a Studio based) recording device typically gets especially when being used on some professional type assignments.

OK a Marantz is built like a battleship so you pay the penality in Price (over 1000 USD), current (2 to 3 hours per battery pack) and weight as you have a lot of kit to carry around.

You have the added problem of what to do with the recording after you get it back to the studio etc.

If you are recording for TV, Radio, or even a music studio you will want to archive the recordings afterwards. Usually these will be stored on separate media and for this purpose a removable MD is still ideal as it will last indefinitly unlike its tape predecessor. The longevity of DVD's and CD's is still a matter of considerable debate currently so it's unlikely these (apart from DVD-RAM) would even be considered for long term archive.

Solid state devices have a much brighter future but currently the high cost of even a modest amount of storage precludes these from becoming the norm yet and probably for a good few years yet.

Your average young listener who finds 30 - 60 GB more than enough for their music needs will undoubtedly be perfectly satisfied with a HD device (particularly if it's only used as a playback device) but I can't see these making huge inroads into the professional portable recording arena whereas I can certainly see Solid state devices at some future time as they are much lighter, use less current, are virrtually indestructable and ARCHIVEABLE with removeable media.

A possible but interesting possibility would be a Solid state recorder which could then archive directly in the recorder on to minidisc. This certainly would be a "New Generation" if such an animal ever appeared.

Another possibility which would make a great deal of sense in a professional recorder using PCM would be to have 2 recording heads or 2 MD's which would then alleviate the problem of the relatively short time (90 Mins) of the single 1GB disc.

Cheers

-K

Edited March 18, 2006 by 1kyle

[The Low Volta]

Don't be sad, yet. I doubt that HI-MD finnished, yet

I'm not really sad ... I think HiMD (at least the RH1) has quite a few years to go as there still aren't any good (well, not acceptable in price and/or quality) alternatives for recording so indeed HiMD will last some more years. But even if it ends, I won't be 'devastated' as long as there is a decent alternative. I like the format, no I love the format, but only for what it lets me do, not for the format itself!

for me: technology = only technology = a tool to do stuff ≠ an end in itself ≠ 'a reason to live'

so if solid state recorders improve in quality and reliability and at the same time drop in price, I can't really see a major reason to mourn the inevitable demise of (Hi)MD

So, what are these changes you speak of? How would you like Sony to change HI-MD recorders and players?

well, have you read the first post of the "Defying Expectations, Third Generation Hi-MD Unit Surfaces"-thread? it (as far as I can tell from the descriptions so far)...

- has the ability to remember all rec-settings (like manual etc...)

- is overall better designed for recording (OLED meters on the side, big rec button,...)

- has a metal body

- is pretty compact but doesn't use a proprietary battery etc and it does have the AA-addon

- might record in 352kbps (nice for the times PCM is overkill but you still want good quality)

- MAC ability (did surface before I know, but on a model that was actually just the RH10 but a bit more expensive so how many of us really bought that?)

- ... (I'm probably forgetting some more)

so, it comes pretty close to what I want... just gimme timestamp and I would be even more excited

what would be needed to make this a good player (><recorder)? a whole lot! this is clearly only intended as a recorder...which is exactly what makes it so good IMHO, it focuses on one task and tries to do that one very good in stead of those semi-player/semi-recorders like the NH1/RH10 (and all their relatives)

[Mikami]

so, it comes pretty close to what I want... just gimme timestamp and I would be even more excited

what would be needed to make this a good player (><recorder)? a whole lot! this is clearly only intended as a recorder...which is exactly what makes it so good IMHO, it focuses on one task and tries to do that one very good in stead of those semi-player/semi-recorders like the NH1/RH10 (and all their relatives)

I like you your a pretty positive person here! Thats pretty clear and perfectly understandable. Let's hope Sony adds a timestamp and focuses on recording. Who knows maybe they are trying to do that. Some, think a little too late, but then again if Sony comes out with something good we will all want to have one.

Well, I will definitely take a look at the first post of the "Defying Expectations" thread and try to catch up with everyone else here. I have been pretty busy so I have missed a lot of the HI-MD action around here. I too am really excitied about the good news!

A friendly MD user,

Mikami