RH10 MP3 conversion

[johnsmells]

hmmmm

ordered an RH10l, i know there is problem with the MP3 on them.

which would be the best

a ) converting everything from MP3 to Atrac so it can play them properly

b ) putting up with MP3 problem

P.S, i don't know anything about atrac, whats the best one if i am converting, i guess just using the highest quality??

[Avrin]

1) MZ-RH10 RULEZZZ!!!!

2) Try . It is listenable!

3) If you don't like it - go ahead back to a)! But pay attention to MP3 gaps in live music!

Edited May 30, 2006 by Avrin

[RobA]

Atrac3plus, conversion is a very simple process to do. I converted all my mp3s to Atrac3plus at 64kbps (HiLP), sounds great and can hold 503 songs, instead of 240 in MP3 at 128kbps.

[m15a]

1) MZ-RH10 RULEZZZ!!!!

2) Try . It is listenable!

3) If you don't like it - go ahead back to a)! But pay attention to MP3 gaps in live music!

mp3 on an MD has gaps while atrac is gapless?

i'll be confronting the same issue in a few weeks, perhaps.

theoretically speaking, converting from mp3 to atrac (or another lossy format) will result in a lower quality file, though. i guess the question is if that degradation is worse than the "EQ" issue.

[dex Otaku]

mp3 on an MD has gaps while atrac is gapless?

Yes, MP3 on nearly all hardware players has gaps. ATRAC and its variants are among the only gapless lossy formats for portables on the entire consumer market. That's assuming you're dealing with a 1st-generation encoding [i.e. ripped directly from CD].

As to whether the MP3 bug is worse than the added artefacting of transcoding - that's up to the user's ears. The only way to find out is to try it. It also depends on what you're trying to encode, as different kinds of music [sound, rather] are more difficult to encode than others.

I personally find that MP3s encoded at bitrates >192kbps survive the transcoding process very well. 192kbps MP3 -> 192kbps a3+ is about as low as I'll go, and while the 2nd-generation artefacting is audible at that rate, it's not as unpleasant or annoying as MP3 that's been repeatedly re-encoded [from MP3].

Whether I transcode my MP3s or not depends on how well they were encoded in the first place; low-rate or trashy encodings stay as MP3 [i'd rather deal with the EQ than the added loss], and high-rate, well-encoded tracks I tend to transcode.

Again, the only way to find out is to try it and see what you're comfortable with listening to.

[johnsmells]

ok, thanks a lot

i think i'll just suck it and see.

i think that the gaps are going to annoy me like no bodies business, but i'll give mp3 a go.

cheers

[Avrin]

Whilst you are waiting for the unit, you may experiment with different formats in SonicStage. But remember that it plays MP3s with the correct frequency response.

IMHO, gaps in non-stop albums and live music are much more annoying than slight (if any) artifacts resulting from MP3->ATRAC3plus conversion. The simple way I get rid of them:

1. In Adobe Audition go to File->Open Append, and select all MP3 files constituting a particular gig or album. Adobe Audition opens them in 32 bit format by default.

2. Zoom in around trackmarks to see and delete all silence between tracks (if it does not need to be there). Zooming in really helps to do it quite precisely. Don't worry about slight waveform changes when silence is removed - you won't really hear the effects.

3. Convert the files back to 16 bit using Edit->Convert Sample Type. The default settings are just fine.

4. Export the music as a set of gapless WAVs using View->Show Cue List, selecting all Cues and pressing the Batch button. When preparing files for CD burning, it is required to make sure that all Cues are set exactly between frames. But when you only want to transfer them to MD, you don't have to care about precise trackmark positions - ATRAC3plus encoding will move them as it wants (see here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=15773).

5. In SonicStage import all resulting WAVs, and encode them into ATRAC3plus. I mostly use 192kbps, but you may choose another bitrate. Then delete the WAVs (you may want to keep them for other purposes though), and transfer the music to Hi-MD.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Avrin

[dex Otaku]

But when you only want to transfer them to MD, you don't have to care about precise trackmark positions - ATRAC3plus encoding will move them as it wants (see here: http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=15773).

What used to be the case was that WAV files of artibtrary length [i.e. not an exact length of frames] would have trackmarks moved to the nearest whole frame boundary [probably back rather than forwrad, too]. WAV files of exact lengths in frames [75fps, 588 stereo samples/frame] would end up gapless with track boundaries where they should be.

It appears that this may have changed [for the worse] around SS 3.4 to nearly random behaviour, though it does seem to make a difference what exact source the tracks are coming from [CD, CD image, WAV files, &c.].

[m15a]

gapless is good news! didn't realize, but now i'm even more pleased i bought a hi-md.

. . .

1. In Adobe Audition go to File->Open Append, and select all MP3 files constituting a particular gig or album. Adobe Audition opens them in 32 bit format by default.

. . .

thanks for the guide. if i'm reading correctly, sounds like this can be done in audacity, which is a free wave editor. in case people are worried that they don't have that program. actually, if you have the skillz, you could probably pull it off in windows sound recorder.

[Avrin]

Audacity does not have "Open Append", which allows opening all files on a single timeline, and is a really convenient feature for gap removal. You may also try Feurio! CD Manager (http://www.feurio.com), which has a similar feature, but it only supports burning edited files to a CD (or converting them to MP3s, which will reintroduce gaps), and is pretty much useless for long gigs, which do not fit on a single CD.

In programs that don't have "Open Append" (Audacity, Sound Forge, etc.) it is also possible to remove gaps, but you will have to sequentially open all files and copy them to a single waveform. This is much less convenient, and may lead to errors, like skipped or misplaced files.

BTW, just tried SS30 (having completely removed SS40, its drivers, registry entries, etc.) and checked track mark placement. Same horrible results as with SS34 and SS40. I was not able to do a precise check, since SS30 does not convert ripped tracks to WAV (and Sound Forge refuses to open SS30 files), but what I heard from my speakers was more than enough. Track marks were moved roughly the same way they are moved in SS40. ATRAC3@132 again shows better results, but the mark misplacement is quite noticeable. ATRAC3plus@256 is simply hideous.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Avrin

[m15a]

ah. i see. sorry. didn't see that feature of your instructions. thanks for the tip, though. i'll probably use open-append for other purposes, too. (now that i know what it means.)