Did my first recording--have questions.

[AndreBlanks]

Before I go on, I think I should mention the venue and what kind of music it is. It's real raw real loud punk music and it was played in a basement--so I think some of my problems might stem from there.

Anyways, I used the MZRH1 Line-In>Battery Box>Microphone.

Well first off, I get a ton of people talking in the background. It was St. Patricks day so I'm sure not everyone was there for the music, and I'm sure this could be solved by standing further away/closer where there isn't as many people.

Unfortunately the biggest problem was before the band started things sounded real clear. I moved up closer (stood by the sound board) and the sound is VERY low. You can barely make it out on my computer even when the volume is all the way up.

There's also a bit of feedback. When I recorded I used Mic Sens. Low, Manual Rec. Levels, all that stuff. I kept it at the -12 mark pretty consistently, but there's still quite a bit of feedback.

I messed around in Audacity and was able to make it loud enough to hear, but there's still some distortion. In certain parts the kick drum seems too punchy. I've never used Audacity so I'm using this crap recording (the bands equipment also screwed up and there's just feedback/banter for like 10 minutes) to mess around and try and learn about it a bit.

I downloaded someone else's recording from here and yeah theirs is definately way better. My mic placement was just on my jacket within an inch or two from my ear and I was standing on a step so I was above everyone else. I was going to clip them from a wire hanging from the ceiling but I didn't want some drunk idiot asking, "HEY! WHAT'S THAT!?"

Like I said I think most of it stems from the setting in which it was recorded. Not to mention punk music has some distortion to begin with--from what I've read everybody else seems like music that's played in much better venues. I'm going to try it again April 7th at an actual club that I've been to before and I'd imagine it's definately a better setting than a basement full of loud crowded people.

In summary I guess, just to bullet it, the two biggest things are:

- Volume too soft and distorted

- Kept levels at -12, used recomended settings (Man. Rec. Levels, Mic Sens. Low, AGC Man., record through line-in, etc.)

Thanks in advance for any help.

- Andre

[Strungup]

Before I go on, I think I should mention the venue and what kind of music it is. It's real raw real loud punk music and it was played in a basement--so I think some of my problems might stem from there.

Anyways, I used the MZRH1 Line-In>Battery Box>Microphone.

Well first off, I get a ton of people talking in the background. It was St. Patricks day so I'm sure not everyone was there for the music, and I'm sure this could be solved by standing further away/closer where there isn't as many people.

Unfortunately the biggest problem was before the band started things sounded real clear. I moved up closer (stood by the sound board) and the sound is VERY low. You can barely make it out on my computer even when the volume is all the way up.

There's also a bit of feedback. When I recorded I used Mic Sens. Low, Manual Rec. Levels, all that stuff. I kept it at the -12 mark pretty consistently, but there's still quite a bit of feedback.

I messed around in Audacity and was able to make it loud enough to hear, but there's still some distortion. In certain parts the kick drum seems too punchy. I've never used Audacity so I'm using this crap recording (the bands equipment also screwed up and there's just feedback/banter for like 10 minutes) to mess around and try and learn about it a bit.

I downloaded someone else's recording from here and yeah theirs is definately way better. My mic placement was just on my jacket within an inch or two from my ear and I was standing on a step so I was above everyone else. I was going to clip them from a wire hanging from the ceiling but I didn't want some drunk idiot asking, "HEY! WHAT'S THAT!?"

Like I said I think most of it stems from the setting in which it was recorded. Not to mention punk music has some distortion to begin with--from what I've read everybody else seems like music that's played in much better venues. I'm going to try it again April 7th at an actual club that I've been to before and I'd imagine it's definately a better setting than a basement full of loud crowded people.

In summary I guess, just to bullet it, the two biggest things are:

- Volume too soft and distorted

- Kept levels at -12, used recomended settings (Man. Rec. Levels, Mic Sens. Low, AGC Man., record through line-in, etc.)

Thanks in advance for any help.

- Andre

First off which recording did you download (Mine perhaps?) then you can get an Idean of how it was done.

Second with those kind of Loud levels the Mic that your using will itself need to be able to handle the SPL's if it isnt capable it wont matter what you do in the machine.

Check out this ( it is in Japanese but it has lots of pics)

http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/products/dj-plus/at-ma2.html

this might only be available by order I dont know if its in the US ,This has power for a stereo mic plus Gain control that will actually let you control the peaks of the mic better . Use a couple 9 volt batts wired in parrelel, plugged into this then plug into the line level input of whatever machine you choose .

Edited March 28, 2007 by Guitarfxr

[A440]

What microphone are you using, and what battery box?

It is possible that the mic itself can't handle superloud volume, but the battery box should help prevent that. It really depends on the mic.

If the battery in the battery box is low, you'll also get no volume. Try a replacement battery. You shouldn't have to change the battery for every gig--it should last hundreds of hours--but maybe it's low. Most battery boxes put out power as long as a mic is plugged into the mic jack. Did you possibly store it with the mic plugged into it?

It's also possible that -12 is too low. Ideally the music should peak just below the top of the display. So try to peak the music between the middle and the end of the scale.

Is the feedback and distortion different from what you heard in the room? The microphone can only pick up what the actual sound is--it can't eliminate talking, feedback from the amps, etc.

[Arni]

i always set recording levels to the limit NOT using AGC -2db - 0dB and the results a really great with my sennheiser mm-hlsc-2 cardioid mics and a 9V bbox. so i never need to boost gain in post, the only thing i do is raise the TREBLE a little bit.

these mics handle 138dB at 5V and i NEVER had distortion problems at really loud rock shows.

using omnidirectional mics is more tricky for loud shows, because more chatter will be on the recording and if u don´t use a bass-filter at about 160Hz, the bass might distort and kill your recording.

arni

[greenmachine]

Chatter is usually a non-issue for me when recording such loud shows, the main sound is just so much louder. It s difficult to overload the line-in, so I don't think a bass filter is necessary, you can always post edit if the bass got too prominent.

[Arni]

Chatter is usually a non-issue for me when recording such loud shows, the main sound is just so much louder. It s difficult to overload the line-in, so I don't think a bass filter is necessary, you can always post edit if the bass got too prominent.

no, with omnidirectional mics you can of course get distorted bass which can´t be restored in post edit, cause it simply distorts no matter how many dB you put it down from 0-250Hz.

had this problem using omnis sp-bmc-6 without a bassfilter...was taping a loud funk show with lots of bassdrum .

Edited March 28, 2007 by Arni

[greenmachine]

Are we talking about distortion caused by the recorder's input or by the mic itself here? A bass roll-off filter works after the mic output, between the mic and the input - it will lower the signal from the mic going to the input, but the filter can't influence the SPL handling of the mic in any way, after all it's just a condenser between mic and input.

[AndreBlanks]

What microphone are you using, and what battery box?

It is possible that the mic itself can't handle superloud volume, but the battery box should help prevent that. It really depends on the mic.

If the battery in the battery box is low, you'll also get no volume. Try a replacement battery. You shouldn't have to change the battery for every gig--it should last hundreds of hours--but maybe it's low. Most battery boxes put out power as long as a mic is plugged into the mic jack. Did you possibly store it with the mic plugged into it?

It's also possible that -12 is too low. Ideally the music should peak just below the top of the display. So try to peak the music between the middle and the end of the scale.

Is the feedback and distortion different from what you heard in the room? The microphone can only pick up what the actual sound is--it can't eliminate talking, feedback from the amps, etc.

I used Sound Professionals BMC-2 and this guy that you suggested:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

Edited March 28, 2007 by AndreBlanks

[A440]

I used Sound Professionals BMC-2 and this guy that you suggested:

http://www.microphonemadness.com/products/mmcbmminminc.htm

Well, as you know, that's exactly my setup, and I've recorded some mighty loud stuff with it at decent volume with no problems.

What are you using as your Manual Level? (You should be able to check just by turning it on and looking at REC SET, since it holds the setting.) I generally stay around 20/30 and very rarely go below 15 or 16, even at ultraloud shows. Is it possible you have that at 12 or something?

Also, when the battery box batteries get low, it fades out: you get low volume and murky sound out of it. Is it possible you accidentally left the mic plugged into it for a long time, which would drain it?

Last, open up the battery module with a little screwdriver and make sure that the spring bracket thingy that holds the batteries in hasn't loosened up, so you're sure the batteries are making full contact.

Edited March 28, 2007 by A440

[AndreBlanks]

Well, as you know, that's exactly my setup, and I've recorded some mighty loud stuff with it at decent volume with no problems.

What are you using as your Manual Level? (You should be able to check just by turning it on and looking at REC SET, since it holds the setting.) I generally stay around 20/30 and very rarely go below 15 or 16, even at ultraloud shows. Is it possible you have that at 12 or something?

Also, when the battery box batteries get low, it fades out: you get low volume and murky sound out of it. Is it possible you accidentally left the mic plugged into it for a long time, which would drain it?

Last, open up the battery module with a little screwdriver and make sure that the spring bracket thingy that holds the batteries in hasn't loosened up, so you're sure the batteries are making full contact.

Ok, so my manual level was at 12 yeah. haha I only had the battery box plugged in for about 4 hours max before recording. I don't have a screwdriver that small, so I'll get one tomorrow but I thought maybe I was supposed to put a 9 volt in there (don't laugh--I'm new : P) but then I read on the mic.madness site that the 3 3 volts come with it, so. . . ugh. This is frustrating. But it was probably the fact that I was keeping the level at the -12 and my record level at 12.

Thanks for all the help--but one last rediculous question: How the heck do I turn this thing off? I've just been popping out the battery!

[A440]

Ok, so my manual level was at 12

Great, then just try cranking up your levels. For a near-deafening show try around 14-15 and look at the level meter. It's a kind of game: you want to get the levels high but not peaked, just one or two notches down from the top. The more signal you get, the less noise--until you go over the top and get distortion. You want to see the indicators bouncing up to near the top.

Don't even bother opening the battery module if you kept the levels that low. Do a test with your stereo cranked up and your mic right next to the woofer.

Every six decibels is double or (-6) half the volume. So -12 is pretty low.

The little battery module takes three lithium batteries, about the size of a US quarter only thinner. At Radio Shack, they are the 23-160, but it says they also replace the BR2016, DL2016 and ECR2106. I have also seen them at drugstores with all the other little button batteries. They're expensive--$4-$6 each, and the price seems to have been jacked up recently. So don't plug in the mic until the last minute, and make sure it's unplugged.

I carry extras if I'm going to something like a rock festival, which is the only place I've had the little batteries die. I also carry an attenuator--a $7 Radio Shack Headphone Volume Control--in case the batteries die during a show; then I would go mic-attenuator-Mic-in. But I've never had to use it. The little batteries last a long time.

To turn off the battery module, just unplug the mic. To turn off the RH1, just hit the STOP button, with the square on it. It will show its final state for a while, but after about 10 seconds it goes dark. Then put the Hold switch on to make sure it doesn't get turned on again.

[AndreBlanks]

Ok, thanks a bunch for all the help.

[bobt]

I would also try Mic, not line in, generally line in is a higher signal than mic, although to be honest I haven't used a battery box, might put level up slightly, but if I were me I would try recording from mic.

JMHO

Bob