MZ-NH700 live recording settings

[david power]

Hi,

Here's my story...Just bought a MZ-NH700 to record one gig!! so please forgive my lack of knowledge and the fact that unlike most people i won't really get a chance to experiment in a live situation also there's no support band to set record levels by.

I'll try to be as detailed as possible;

Recording set up ~

Sony MZ-NH700 ~ Mics and Battery box suppiled by Greenmachine...as well as some good advice.

Venue ~ 1,400 seated theatre

Position ~ Row E centre

Artist ~ Female vocalist with synthesisers/percussion

Settings ~ Fully charged NH-7WMAA battery

1GB Disc

Recording via line-in~battbox~mics(on glasses)

Manual rec levels...around 20/30 level

PCM recording mode

Stealth set up ~ I intend to enter venue and shortly before start attatch batt box to recorder(line in) ~ mics to battbox ~ set to PCM ~ Press Record/Pause/set manual level/hold....start of concert release hold/unpause/hold....encore release hold/pause etc

end of performance press stop and wait for system file writing to complete.

Now here are are few things that i'm not too sure of;

because i am using manual rec levels i assume that overides the need for Mic Sens/gain settings?

The concert will last roughly 1 hour 30 mins, if i pause between encores does this use up disc space battery life?

I really don't want to record any other mode than PCM so i'll take a spare.

Will a fully charged battery last an hour and a half recording in PCM mode?/what is the battery life?

If anyone with the same set up can advise me on any questions or on anything that i've missed out please help me out,

i'm sorry this is such a long post but as i said at the beginning this really is a one shot a getting it right.

Regards ~ David.

[A440]

IMPORTANT: Get a real alkaline battery, not the dinky rechargeable that came with the unit: Duracell (my preferred), Energizer, or even better a Duracell Ultra, Energizer Titanium or whatever they're calling the highest grade. A good new alkaline will definitely last the length of the gig and well beyond.

You could test the rechargeable just by letting the unit record at PCM--it doesn't matter if it has an input--and seeing how long it lasts. But I have more peace of mind with a Duracell.

For stealth, I suggest doing all your level settings before you get to the gig. Plug the battery module into Line-in and run through the Manual Level routine. Then just leave it on Pause. Plug the mics into the battery module and tap (gently!) on them to see you're getting a level reading. Obviously it won't be full concert volume.

Put the unit on Hold, plug in the remote, stick the unit in a pocket. You don't have to take it out till you're done. Stealthier. Leaving the unit on hold won't eat much battery life--I do this all the time, up to an hour before the gig sometimes.

Then, at showtime, use the remote to un-Pause and start recording--check the remote display to make sure it's stopped blinking and the time readout is changing.

Pause between encores will save disc space, and you won't need to worry about battery life. 90 minutes on a 94-minute disc is going to be tight, but if you're worried about stealth then changing discs is going to be pretty difficult, since you have to do the whole Manual Level routine again.

You'll have Auto Gain off automatically with Manual levels. I have Mic Sens on low--I have no idea if it makes any difference, but what the heck.

Try to rehearse this--just record some daily life--so you're used to working through the menus.

Is this a Lisa Gerrard gig?

Edited April 15, 2007 by A440

[david power]

A440,

Many thanks for your advice, always reassuring to learn from those that know.

I've experimented today with recording, surprised at the clarity although the supplied battery was not up to the job,

i'll be sure to get a Duracell plus and check that out.

I've seen the setlist for the tour and will take a spare disc, why risk it.Let me get this straight though...if the gig looks like going beyond the 94 minute mark i choose one of the encores when she goes offstage,press stop and wait for the recorder to write data ~ eject disc ~

~insert new disc ~ press rec >, pause ~ Menu ~ rec levels manually ~ set levels ~ Unpause ~ hold....relax and listen to the rest of Lisa,did i say Lisa, sorry i meant to say female vocalist!!

Once again thanks, i'm new here but there seems to be a genuiness about this forum, i'm grateful also for the fantastic

service that i received from Greenmachine and judging from the initial results you really can't go wrong with his mics...more

bang for your buck and more pleasure for your pound and all the advice you could ask for.

One thing that i'm not too sure of is track marking during the gig, i intend to record the show as one track and seperate the tracks once it's loaded onto my p.c ~ is that fair comment?

I look forward to the results and all being well i'll have something to shout about.If you're interested in a copy of the gig i'll be more than happy to oblige.

LISA GERRARD what can you mean, next you'll be telling me she sang with Brendan Perry in a band called Dead Can Dance!!

Regards ~ Dave

[greenmachine]

The "mic sens hi/low" settings only have an effect when recording via the mic-in, not when recording via line-in. Mic sens "high" is the most sensitive setting, followed by mic sens. "low" - the line-in does not have a preamp behind it, so it's the least sensitive option and best suited for recording strong signals like amplified concerts. The mics are quite sensitive, so you will most likely never need the mic sens "high" setting, just leave in on "low" all the time and choose the input and set the levels manually according to each situation.

With the mics on glasses just above the ears, not too far up front, you will get an impressive 3-dimensionality, but since it will be recorded largely just like you heard it at the location, turning of your head during the recording will result in a shifting of the sound (just like you heard it). I don't mean to say you should not express your enjoyment during the performance, just make you aware of the limitations of the setup.

When recording via line-in, you will unavoidably get automatic track marks after quiet passages, which you can remove afterwards on the unit or in Sonicstage. I usually prefer to have the original as one continuous track and do the editing afterwards in an audio editor with much greater precision. Be sure to keep one - or better more - copies of the unedited original file in a lossless format, your opinion about the best way of editing may change over time.

Enjoy the show.

Edited April 15, 2007 by greenmachine

[david power]

Greenmachine,

The mics you sent are working like a dream, i can hardly believe the clarity.Can you check out my original post and if theres anything that you don't agree with or you think is not quite right please let me know.

Gruss ~ David.

[A440]

You've got the Manual Level drill correct. You probably won't have to reset to 20/30. Once you get into Manual Level, it will remember what your previous setting was if it's over 13. Under 13, it reverts to 13.

About track marking at the gig:

Since it's your first gig, just record it as one track. Start it, make sure it's going, let it roll and stop it after 90 minutes or at the appropriate break. The beauty of MD is that you can add track marks on the unit during playback or split tracks once they are uploaded on your computer.

I have the RM-MC40ELK remote and I do use it to make track marks during the applause at loud gigs, when I also look at levels.

But at a.....LG....gig the music may be quieter, and you'd hear noise from the remote. Every time the remote is used it makes a little bit of static (which is why I trackmark during applause where it doesn't matter).

So use the remote to un-Pause and start recording, and to Stop at the end, but then put it on Hold and simply unplug it once you know you're rolling.

Upload to your computer as soon as you have time. I'm always happiest when the music is copied from the disc and encryption is removed.

Make sure your SonicStage version is better than the disc that came with the NH700. Either 3.4 or 4.2 is best--get them via Downloads. Earlier versions of SonicStage have more restrictions and more bugs.

Since it's a PCM recording it's a big file that will take a fairly long time to upload. Make sure you stay connected even after it shows 100 percent uploaded until you hear the three-note sound that announces it's done. You might try a small upload--one of your GM mic recordings--to see how that process works.

Also, I suggest UNchecking the box under Tools/Otions/Transfer/Hi-MD/Transfer Settings/Advanced that says "Save in .wav when importing." SonicStage is already chewing on a lot of information with a full-disc upload. You can convert to .wav afterward once the file is safely uploaded into My Library.

[Strungup]

Hey 440 , I havent noticed any static at all on my 40elk , I have purposefuly been putting it thru paces at quiet situations , just to see what it would do, based on what you mentioned earlier to me.

Is your RH1 and remote a Mix match? did you buy a Japanese RH1 or Euro or Us , and where did the remo come from???

just curious , I am actually having quiet a good time with this remo , I have tried a number of different mics , and just walking around the house recording nothing but ambience raising ,lowereing , farting , burping and watching my kid rolling in the floor craking up because of it , .........track mark , rec adjustments all very very smooth.

[greenmachine]

Greenmachine,

The mics you sent are working like a dream, i can hardly believe the clarity.Can you check out my original post and if theres anything that you don't agree with or you think is not quite right please let me know.

Gruss ~ David.

It seems like you have done your homework. Congratulations on your new (?) recorder by the way. Glad you like the mics.

The best level setting is hard to know beforehand, but something in the 20/30 region should work well as a rough guess if you cannot use the meters.

I agree with A440 to get a higher capacity battery for "the gig" and do all the settings before entering the venue so that you just have to un-pause. In rec-pause mode there's not much current drain (about 50-70 mA, with a 2Ah battery the recorder could be left in rec-pause for about 15-20 hours until half of its capacity would be eaten up). If anything other important to consider should come to my mind before the show, I'll let you know.

[A440]

Hey 440 , I havent noticed any static at all on my 40elk ,

... Is your RH1 and remote a Mix match? did you buy a Japanese RH1 or Euro or Us , and where did the remo come from???

American RH1. My RM-MC40ELK is from Ebay, so that may be the problem.

I get a little bit of static when I light it up to check levels or change them, on Line-in. One classical recording I did via Mic-in, which was unamplified and needed some gain, had a persistent buzz that I assume was from the remote.

If yours is working better, that's great. But various people have complained through the years that adjusting the remote during recording adds noise.

[david power]

A440/Greenmachine,

Thanks for all the help/info.I can't understand why people are so snotty about mini disc recordings, especially with a PCM setting,

such a shame that you can't get a 2gb disc, now that really would be handy.

One thing that i want to get clear, if i need to use a second disc which in all likelyhood i will, no point in getting a fantastic recording but no last inpromptu unreleased never to be repeated encore, after waiting for the disc to be written i reload

a disc and then press rec ~ Pause....at this point i assume that i have to go back into the menu and set to manual record level or the disc will be recording on automatic rec level.Is this true or does the machine remember the previous setting?

Anyhow, lots of dry runs before the big night so i'll not say adios, and anyway i think i'll stick around the forum for a while yet.

Regards ~ David.

[greenmachine]

The NH700 won't remember the manual setting, but it will remember the level setting as long as it's not below 13/30. Otherwise it will revert to this value.

[david power]

Greenmachine,

REC LEVELS...

Just found that out when doing a dry run with a disc change, my problem was i didn't realise that the manaul rec

were located in the rec volume section of the menu....better to learn now than on the evening, luckily the people either side of me on the evening know that i'm recording so i won't need to be too stealthy...just a little!

Gruss ~ David

Zeige mir Deine Freunde und ich sage Dir wer Du bist....ahh yes very true.

[david power]

A44o/Greenmachine,

Just completed successful dry run with disc change and everything.Great advice with regard to battery, i'm using a Duracell plus for the 9v battbox and Duracell ultra LR6 alkaline battery for the MZ-NH700 recorder, it seems more than enough even with a disc change.

I then opened up sonicstage which listed the cd as having 67 tracks, i know there are only 15 tracks so please tell me how to get rid of these false track markers either before transfer or after.

Thanks in advance for helpfulness,

David.

[A440]

On the unit: while playing back, hit Pause and go back (<<) and you will see Mark xx. Push the Track button, mark goes away.

After uploading: SonicStage has a Combine function under Edit. Highlight tracks in the order you want them--usually top to bottom--and Combine. Don't highlight them in reverse or they will be combined wrong, and there is no Undo. You'd have to delete them from My Library and upload again.

Just out of curiosity, how did you record the CD? Mic--Line-in with mics next to loudspeakers? When Line-in detects a silence of 2 seconds or more it inserts a track mark. It's a "feature" that can't be turned off. Try recording at a higher level.

Unless you are recording at too low a level, this shouldn't be a problem at a concert because there's a lot more ambient noise and the unit won't detect silence.

[david power]

A440,

Yes you guessed right, i recorded using line in with mics set up either side of a stack of 50 cd's to replicate my fat head.

Obviously i wasn't attempting to annoy the neigbours so it was a reasonably low level registering roughly one bar below

0db mark, i've read that you can compensate for the lower level in the editing whereas it's not possible if the sound levels are too high and overblown.

The rec level that i intend to use if theres security nearby is 20/30, that'll be my setting prior to taking my seat and depending on security i may check the levels at intervals.

I'll test out your advice with regard to reducing the track seperation problem, i'm currently loading it onto magix audio cleaner

which i use to edit and in the rare event of receiving a TAO disc i can delete all track markers and then add them manually, i know its slightly long winded but i'm terrified of getting a good clear recording and then managing to screw it up by pressing the wrong button.

My other query is that the sound level is very low compared to an average cd, i read on the site that this can be corrected in the edit funtion of sonicstage, again i can do this in magix but really would rather not be transfering from one bit of software to another.

Anyhow my nerves are jangling now so all you'll probably hear on the night is me screaming "Is there anyone that knows how to use a mini disc"

I'll certainly let you know how it pans out,

David.

[A440]

Sound editing programs can raise the volume of the recording, but in doing so they also amplify noise. it's best to get the loudest recording you can without overloading--more signal, less noise. You want your peak level to be close to the top, and the bulk of your recording to be past the middle mark--lower, obviously, if songs start quietly and build up like crazy, as she might do. But I don't think Ms. LG is going to be overwhelmingly loud, so go with 20/30 at least.

Mic-in overload is what you've been reading about, and yes, that ruins things completely. But I find it is very difficult to overload Line-in.

SonicStage really isn't a sound editing program, although it does combine and divide tracks. To amplify a recording, you need something like Magix or Audacity. You're going to convert them out of My Library to .wav or .mp3 before using Magix or Audacity on them anyway, so you should always have a copy of your original recording as the .oma file in My Library.

All you need to worry about at the concert is that everything is connected--you can check this in Rec/Pause outside the venue--and that you un-paused, so you should glance at the remote once you un-Pause and leave it on Hold. Check your watch so you can be ready at the 90-minute mark.

Then just let it roll and enjoy the concert. Try not to talk/applaud/yell/sigh during songs, because, yes, you'll be recording that too. In excellent fidelity.

Oh, and CDs actually aren't going to replicate your head that well, unless it is hard, angular and highly reflective of sound waves.

[david power]

A440,

Heres the story of one dork and his MD recorder.

Enter Venue, no worries there, go to boys room and rig everything up and place on hold....how easy is this.

As the lights go down i went to release hold/pause but in my haste/excitment drop the recorder causing the lead to come out of my battbox, so theres all this applause as she enters the stage and i'm on the floor trying to locate and re-connect the machine.

At this point i want the ground to open up, so confused /angry about the dropping that i'm convinced it's not working, so i thought just sit back and enjoy the gig.

I was told that on all european dates that there was an 25minute interval after an hour and therefore a perfect time to replace disc at leasure, for whatever reason she doesn't do this tonight and plays for an hour and 25 before the first encore.

Changing discs in the dark and remembering all the settings was confusing but somehow i managed it.

Drove home from London and to my utter amazment both discs are very good/clear/honest recordings of what i heard although

the recording level is still a little lower that i would really like it to be, having said that theres nothing that dips too low.

Trying to upload the has been a real nightmare because i'm paranoid about losing the recording now and there are still too many tracks even though the rec level was set at 24/30.Is it better for me to upload the disc as it is before worrying about getting rid of unwanted track markers or should i do it first on the recorder itself..

Is it possible for me to upload the version that i have, including all the unwanted track markers just as a security measure and then go back and remove the markers via the recorder itself and then upload it again without the unwanted markers.

Sonic stage certainly isn't the easiest bit of software i've ever used, i'm using the 4.3 version by the way.

I look forward to a bit of help on this one as there are about half a dozen "friends" desperate for a copy.

David.

Edited April 30, 2007 by dead can dance dave

[greenmachine]

Is it better for me to upload the disc as it is before worrying about getting rid of unwanted track markers or should i do it first on the recorder itself..

Is it possible for me to upload the version that i have, including all the unwanted track markers just as a security measure and then go back and remove the markers via the recorder itself and then upload it again without the unwanted markers.

That should be possible, although paranoid users would probably make a real time copy first, just in case.

Combining on the unit and uploading afterwards has been a problem with older versions of Sonicstage (pre 3.2 or 3.4 I think) but has been largely resolved lately (although I still don't completely trust it).

You have several options, sorted from most time consuming, least accurate, but most secure to relatively fast and convenient (but somewhat risky):

- analog copy out of the headphone output

- digital real time copy using Total Recorder

- upload uncombined with Sonicstage, convert to wav and use an audio editor afterwards to combine

- upload with Sonicstage, use the combine feature (tracks need to be highlighted in the correct order)

- remove the marks on the unit and upload with Sonicstage

Some details are here.

And yes, Sony should have built in an option to disable auto track marking a long time ago.

[david power]

Greenmachine,

I've uploaded it now and backed it up as well as made an unedited version on disc...no chances taken!!

The recording on the MD itself sounds fantastic but at full volume, i recorded at 24/30 but wish i'd made it 27/30

especially for the quieter passages, i'm trying to increase the volume with Magix cleaning lab but i don't want to mess with the original too much, i realise that increasing the volume also increases the noise as well as the signal, my Magix lab tells me the signal is very low, shame because she really was on good form.

I noticed that where there is a track mark it creates a tiny gap either side of the track mark, is this on the MD disc itself or is it created after uploading, i've manually removed/closed all gaps, again using magix.

I think what i'll do is make a copy that i'm happy with and then find a MD expert to look over the discs and see what can be done, i know there are people on the L.G forum that use Mini Disc Recorders.

This Total Recorder, is it recommended, i've never come across it before?

Thanks for your help and advice

David.

[A440]

Total Recorder intercepts and records whatever comes through the computer soundcard in real time. It's useful for recording streaming audio--Real Player clips, etc.--and when SonicStage was less reliable, it was also a good backup for Hi-MD. You'd hook up SonicStage, play back the disc via the computer and record.

It's a good, reliable program for $20. But since you've already uploaded, you don't need it.

The gaps are in the playback, not on the disc--play back the minidisc in the unit and there should be no gaps.

What do you mean by "made an unedited version on disc"? What format?

I use Audacity, not Magix, but Magix must have a similar Noise Reduction effect, where it analyzes a stretch of noice and tries to remove those frequencies from the recording. Sometimes this improves things, sometimes it doesn't, but it's worth a try.

Your uploads are .oma files in SonicStage's My Library. Use "Save in .wav" under Tools to convert one and play with it in Magix. Ampify and Normalize should raise the volume. Noise Reduction could help with noise. You can also use filters--if it's a hissy noise, which is high frequencies, then try a low pass filter.

Edited May 2, 2007 by A440