Copying between decks

[pmand@mindspring.com]

I am copying between 2 decks multiple times with a digital optical cable. Does the signal get degraded each time or is it an exact digital copy. I s the signal in fact digital at all?

[greenmachine]

The signal is digital, but you will get some generation loss, i.e. the ATRAC encoded lossy audio is decoded and re-encoded each time.

[ZosoIV]

Also, don't forget about SCMS: you're going to be limited to one first-generation copy over optical thanks to SCMS (serial copyright management system). If you recorded the first disk as a live recording or analog dub, the second deck will let you make one digital copy, but you won't be able to copy that copy to another disk over the TOSLINK cable. If the disk you're trying to copy was made digitally in the first place (i.e., over the optical cable), the deck will say "no copy" and won't let you proceed. Any copying beyond a first-gen digital dub must be done via analog connections.

You probably won't notice much quality loss in a second-generation MD-to-MD dub, but you will after that. Just like a tape, there is generational loss due to the lossy ATRAC compression scheme, which, besides cutting away frequencies your ears couldn't hear anyway, adds random noise and error to the signal because bits are allocated to only the most important parts of the signal. This error is only amplified every time a signal goes through another compression cycle - in short, re-compression is an asymmetric process because the encoder doesn't know the input already was compressed to begin with.

[BIGHMW]

Also, don't forget about SCMS: you're going to be limited to one first-generation copy over optical thanks to SCMS (serial copyright management system). If you recorded the first disk as a live recording or analog dub, the second deck will let you make one digital copy, but you won't be able to copy that copy to another disk over the TOSLINK cable. If the disk you're trying to copy was made digitally in the first place (i.e., over the optical cable), the deck will say "no copy" and won't let you proceed. Any copying beyond a first-gen digital dub must be done via analog connections.

There is hope for you....

...just get yourself a professional deck such as the ones you would find through either Musician's Friend or Guitar Center.

You cannot find these kinds of decks at Circuit City or Best Buy, home decks from those places DO have SCMS in them.

Pro decks are also available through MiniDisco and B&H Photo-Video-Pro Audio from companies like Tascam or HHB. I myself own a Sony MDS-E10 pro MD deck and an HHB CDR-850 pro CD deck (both bought from Musician's Friend) in my home studio, otherwise known as HMW Studio One after using home units which did have SCMS.

Unlike home decks, Professional decks do not recognize SCMS or any other copy protection nor do they encode any on the copied disc.

There are also ways of defeating or overriding the SCMS on home decks, but that requires both a service manual on your deck as well as going into your deck (opening it up) in order to set the override circuitry in place. Maybe someone on this board can help you with that advice.

Edited September 9, 2007 by BIGHMW

[pmand@mindspring.com]

Also, don't forget about SCMS: you're going to be limited to one first-generation copy over optical thanks to SCMS (serial copyright management system). If you recorded the first disk as a live recording or analog dub, the second deck will let you make one digital copy, but you won't be able to copy that copy to another disk over the TOSLINK cable. If the disk you're trying to copy was made digitally in the first place (i.e., over the optical cable), the deck will say "no copy" and won't let you proceed. Any copying beyond a first-gen digital dub must be done via analog connections.

You probably won't notice much quality loss in a second-generation MD-to-MD dub, but you will after that. Just like a tape, there is generational loss due to the lossy ATRAC compression scheme, which, besides cutting away frequencies your ears couldn't hear anyway, adds random noise and error to the signal because bits are allocated to only the most important parts of the signal. This error is only amplified every time a signal goes through another compression cycle - in short, re-compression is an asymmetric process because the encoder doesn't know the input already was compressed to begin with.

Thanks. How about going from a Fostex multitracker with a hard drive making some edits and back to a minidisc unit and making some edits and so on? It seems to be working well so far.