Sonicstage 4.3 Backup Tool Problem

[fozzman71]

As the backuptool starts to calculate the disk space required for the backup I get

"Omgbkup.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."

Event viewer reveals

Faulting application omgbkup.exe, version 4.3.1.14020, faulting module msvcr71.dll, version 7.10.3052.4, fault address 0x00010440.

I've tried re-installing SS 4.3 and msvcr71.dll.

As I've been using Omgbkup for the last 3-yrs with no problem I'm assuming my PC has somehow been corrupted.

I'll be grateful for any thoughts.........

Edited November 19, 2007 by fozzman71

[A440]

You don't really need the backup tool any more.

Use the File Conversion Tool (under Tools). Uncheck Add Copy Protection. It removes the DRM from the files and then you never have to worry again about SonicStage going wacky. It tells you to back everything up, but I've never had any problems with it.

More info here:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=16088

I also have it delete the omg files--they're just clutter.

[fozzman71]

You don't really need the backup tool any more.

Use the File Conversion Tool (under Tools). Uncheck Add Copy Protection. It removes the DRM from the files and then you never have to worry again about SonicStage going wacky. It tells you to back everything up, but I've never had any problems with it.

More info here:

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=16088

I also have it delete the omg files--they're just clutter.

Many thanks. That sounds a lot easier than using the backup tool.

I'll give it a go.

Cheers

[alexis]

Well, that may do, but I think a library backup still makes sense because it saves the encryption keys for the songs that once were registered by SOnicStage. Let me explain: If you import tracks, download them into a device, and then delete them, their respective keys will stay in the SonicStage database, and you will be able to upload these tracks back again. If you just create a new library and imports only the unprotected files on your hard disk, all downloaded tracks will become stuck on the device they were downloaded into.

This may not be a big point, but I felt like giving the information.

[Sparky191]

I've never had that problem with encryption keys. But I turn off all DRM maybe thats why.

I don't use SonicStage to manage my files any more, but when I did this is how I did the backup manually.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showt...8&hl=Backup

[Avrin]

Well, that may do, but I think a library backup still makes sense because it saves the encryption keys for the songs that once were registered by SOnicStage. Let me explain: If you import tracks, download them into a device, and then delete them, their respective keys will stay in the SonicStage database, and you will be able to upload these tracks back again. If you just create a new library and imports only the unprotected files on your hard disk, all downloaded tracks will become stuck on the device they were downloaded into.

This may not be a big point, but I felt like giving the information.

This is true only for DRM'd tracks, that is, tracks ripped from CDs with the "Add Copy Protection" box checked, or tracks purchased from the CONNECT store. Tracks ripped (or converted from other formats) with the "Add Copy Protection" box unchecked transfer without any problems anywhere you want them. The only exception is the NetMD mode, where files are always encrypted, and upload (check in) only to the original library, as long as they are registered in it.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Avrin

[alexis]

This is true only for DRM'd tracks, that is, tracks ripped from CDs with the "Add Copy Protection" box checked, or tracks purchased from the CONNECT store. Tracks ripped (or converted from other formats) with the "Add Copy Protection" box unchecked transfer without any problems anywhere you want them. The only exception is the NetMD mode, where files are always encrypted, and upload (check in) only to the original library, as long as they are registered in it.

If you download tracks into a portable device, they will be encrypted even if the source material was not. That is why the tracks can only be uploaded onto one computer/SonicStage installation (the one they were downloaded from). If you lose the keys used to encrypt these tracks, you will never be able to upload them again. It is like downloading a track from a SonicStage installation and trying to upload it to another SonicStage installation: it will fail because of the missing key.

So if you plan to keep your music collection in unprotected .oma files (like I do), be aware that just reinstalling SonicStage and reimporting all those tracks will work fine for your PC music library, but will lock all downloaded tracks to their respective supports (MDs or Network Walkmans), which can be problematic if you do not posess the source material any more.

[Sparky191]

I'm confused about what your talking about tbh. Could you not use the terms download and upload when talking about transfers to and from the player, and between SonicStage Libraries. Ditto supports. Its confusing. To me at least.

Are you saying, tracks transferred to a player can only be transferred back to the SonicStage library/installation that originally transferred them?

So for example, if you transfer all your SonicStage tracks to MD's or onto a Player. Then reinstall SonicStage on the PC. The tracks cannot be transferred back to this new SonicStage install? Effectively theres no way of transferring these tracks off the disks.

I never used HiMD like that. For me it makes more sense to keep a single library of all your music on the computer rather than across a load of disks. In fact it makes more sense now as SonicStage is being dropped to keep your library out of SonicStage completely. Only using it for specific transfers to and from players/disks and nothing else.

[Avrin]

storm shadow, please, explain how this worked:

1. Installed SonicStage.

2. Imported some CDs with Add Copy Protection unchecked.

3. Transfered the music to a few Hi-MD discs using RH10.

4. No longer had the RH10 (got a moneyback for it). Bought an RH1.

5. Completely uninstalled and reinstalled SonicStage a few times in the meantime (different versions), cleaning all traces of it, including all keys (these are file- and registry-based, and unique for each installation, even when reinstalling on the same computer).

6. Never used the Backup Tool.

7. Uploaded all the music from the Hi-MD discs using the new RH1 (the RH910 also works) into the computer. No problems.

8. Downloaded the music to new discs (in the process of rearranging my collection). No problems.

9. Everything downloads, uploads. and plays fine.

And this one:

1. Freely moved tracks between different SonicStage installations (by burning them to a DVD+RW disc). No problems.

Edited November 22, 2007 by Avrin

[Avrin]

If you rip with the Add Copy Protection box unchecked, everything should be OK.

Not sure about uploaded self-recordings. Check file properties, if it says Copy Protection: Present (or something like this), convert the files to remove DRM. Experienced recordists may correct me.

[A440]

Call me overly cautious (or other things). But every time I upload a new recording from a disc into My Library, I run the File Conversion Tool with Add Copy Protection unchecked. It doesn't take long and it frees up all the files in My Library. I'd rather be sure that I've done the file conversion than check Properties.

[Avrin]

That's a reliable approach!

[Sparky191]

More reliable is not to use SonicStage for your library. IMO

[A440]

We definitely agree on that.

I only use SonicStage when I have to: to upload Hi-MD recordings. And I un-DRM them as soon as they are uploaded.

[alexis]

storm shadow, please, explain how this worked:

1. Installed SonicStage.

2. Imported some CDs with Add Copy Protection unchecked.

3. Transfered the music to a few Hi-MD discs using RH10.

4. No longer had the RH10 (got a moneyback for it). Bought an RH1.

5. Completely uninstalled and reinstalled SonicStage a few times in the meantime (different versions), cleaning all traces of it, including all keys (these are file- and registry-based, and unique for each installation, even when reinstalling on the same computer).

6. Never used the Backup Tool.

7. Uploaded all the music from the Hi-MD discs using the new RH1 (the RH910 also works) into the computer. No problems.

8. Downloaded the music to new discs (in the process of rearranging my collection). No problems.

9. Everything downloads, uploads. and plays fine.

And this one:

1. Freely moved tracks between different SonicStage installations (by burning them to a DVD+RW disc). No problems.

I am impressed - I never managed to do that before. I will try it at home with my RH-1 and two separate SonicStage installations running on two separate virtual machines on my PC. If I can actually transfer tracks from one installation to the other (which I never could before) I will confirm it on this forum. Actually all my downloaded (transferred PC->MD) tracks are marked "transfer: only on the originating computer" or something. I'll re-check for you.

Edited November 26, 2007 by storm shadow

[lrvdb]

More reliable is not to use SonicStage for your library. IMO

What would you recommend?

[Sparky191]

What would you recommend?

Pretty much anything else. I've never heard of any other Music Manager that can lock you out of your own music like SonicStage can. iTunes can muck up your file struture, but it won't lock you out. I use media monkey myself, or just good old Windows Explorer. Using explorer drop a folder (containing music) in SS and it imports it. Hit transfer and over it goes.

[lrvdb]

We definitely agree on that.

I only use SonicStage when I have to: to upload Hi-MD recordings. And I un-DRM them as soon as they are uploaded.

Obviously, I'm still confused. I thought it was no longer necessary to un-DRM uploads (MD to PC transfers) with current versions of SS (>= ver 4). Will I need to keep doing this even with ver 4.2?

Pretty much anything else. I've never heard of any other Music Manager that can lock you out of your own music like SonicStage can. iTunes can muck up your file struture, but it won't lock you out. I use media monkey myself, or just good old Windows Explorer. Using explorer drop a folder (containing music) in SS and it imports it. Hit transfer and over it goes.

So you just transfer your recordings to PC via SonicStage, trash the ATRAC files, and work with the WAV files in Media Monkey?

My main interest is to make recordings of a church choir I sing with. I record our rehearsals and Sunday services, and then to create CDs of these for other choir members to use. Not professional CDs and not CDs that will be sold, but for our own use and the enjoyment of some friends of the choir. Still I want the highest quality recording and CD that I can make. I just upgraded my PC, and will undoubtedly upgrade again next year, or even replace it, so I would love not to have to worry about keeping or losing my recordings, converting or optimizing them, etc. etc. etc. I am a novice in the sound/recording world, and all these different recording formats are like vegetable soup to me.

[Sparky191]

....

So you just transfer your recordings to PC via SonicStage, trash the ATRAC files, and work with the WAV files in Media Monkey? ...

Pretty much. I burn a Audio CD with the WAV's as an archive. Then I make MP3's of them for my main music library. End of problems.

[A440]

Recordings you make get DRM when they are uploaded, even in 4.x versions of SonicStage. You need to run File Conversion Tool to get rid of the DRM.

Just run the File Conversion Tool (with Add Copy Protection unchecked) after you upload. Then you can just copy the .oma files onto a disc for archiving. Or convert them to .wav, or .mp3 (with HiMD Renderer).

[lrvdb]

Call me overly cautious (or other things). But every time I upload a new recording from a disc into My Library, I run the File Conversion Tool with Add Copy Protection unchecked. It doesn't take long and it frees up all the files in My Library. I'd rather be sure that I've done the file conversion than check Properties.

How to you run the File Conversion Tool on just the newly uploaded recordings? It seems like it's going to run on the entire library.

[Sparky191]

Have to say I don't bother, I just convert to Wav for editing.

[A440]

How do you run the File Conversion Tool on just the newly uploaded recordings? It seems like it's going to run on the entire library.

The File Conversion Tool does go through the entire library and gives you a huge number about how long it's going to take--and yes, it will take a long time the first time if you've never used it. So do it overnight.

But then, once most of the files have already had copy protection removed, it takes a much shorter time. It still calculates the whole library first and gives you the huge number again. But then you uncheck Add Copy Protection, and it quickly recalculates, giving you a much smaller number.

Sure, it would have been a lot easier for Sony to either not automatically add copy protection when you upload, or to let you un-check Add Copy Protection first when you run the File Conversion Tool. But making it simple is not Sony's style.

Sparky, I do this because converting to .wav takes a long time and uses up a lot of drive space. File Conversion Tool is quicker, and a lot of my recordings aren't going to be edited (or ever heard again). Since I do most recording in Hi-SP, it's a huge expansion to convert to .wav.

Incidentally, some people have had trouble with the option of automatic converting to .wav on upload. It takes a lot of processing power and memory. Converting to .wav goes more smoothly if you upload from the disc to My Library first and then convert to .wav in a separate step.