A solution to the "slow SP upload" problem on the RH1

[sfbp]

Hmmm, I tried this method and.. doesn't affect the speed at all. SP uploading is still slow.. tried it last night and it took an hour or so just to transfer.

(I have an N10 but USB was borked on that a looooong time ago so...)

You gotta look in the list of driver files for the device. If there are two (netmd052.sys and something else), you are in trouble. Follow avrin's specs carefully to show the unused ("ghost") devices.

[Levanel]

You gotta look in the list of driver files for the device. If there are two (netmd052.sys and something else), you are in trouble. Follow avrin's specs carefully to show the unused ("ghost") devices.

Yeah, all my device drivers are shown, including hidden ones. Maybe I should've mentioned it more clearer but I only have had the RH1 connected to my tower and no other MD units.

Oh, and uploading regular MDLP to non-HiMD disk are as slow as SP as well. I have no clue why this is..

[sfbp]

Start by deleting every "shadow" USB device you can find ("uninstalling"). Don't worry, this is quite safe, because the files are still there and will get reloaded automatically as needed. Detach the RH1, too. For good measure you can delete the non-USB "shadow" devices but I doubt it will help.

There may be, like, 50 Many of them may be USB storage devices.

Try a reboot and see if they are all still deleted.

Plug in the RH1, and the notification tray should pop up a balloon saying "HiMD Walkman" (I am assuming an SP disk in the device - if you have a HiMD disk then the driver isn't even an issue and won't be added in the first place, I think).

Now check the USB list. There should be exactly one entry for NetMD, and it should be in regular type (ie not greyed out or shadowed). Double click it, and look at the Driver tab to see what driver files got loaded. There's a button (not a tab) labelled "Driver Details". In the window that pops up it should show only one driver file, NETMD052.SYS, mine has a version number of 1.2.10.08080, copyright Sony Corporation and digitally signed by Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatibility.

If anything differs from this description, please post it here. Otherwise you should now be in business.

Happy New Year!

[Levanel]

Okay, this is too wierd.. transfer of Hi-SP and Hi-LP tracks take forever now, not just regular SP itself. Didn't use to be like this..

My NETMD052.SYS file version is 1.3.32.10310 before and after I applied this method (for the 3rd time, and rebooted the machine).

It's connected via USB 2.0/dedicated port as usual. Though I did notice the windows tray balloon pop up with these messages:

(connected w/o SS 4.3) - "NetMD/Hi-MD" and "Hi-MD"

(connected w/ SS 4.3) - "Sony Hi-MD device" and "Disk drive" and a reboot message..

-------

update: Meh, now I can't import CDs at all. "Unable to transfer the track or tracks." message..

Edited January 5, 2009 by Levanel

[sfbp]

Ahhhh the svhost.exe problem, I wouldn't wonder

look in task manager and see if there is a task taking 99% of CPU? If it's called svchost.exe you need to seriously reexamine what antivirus software you are running including microsofts malware detection tool. You can safely kill it and try again but all sorts of system level services will get stopped.

My guess is right now SOMETHING is taking the computer away from you.

Are you down to a single NetMD device?

Hang in there, we will get you out somehow....

S

[Levanel]

Ahhhh the svhost.exe problem, I wouldn't wonder

look in task manager and see if there is a task taking 99% of CPU? If it's called svchost.exe you need to seriously reexamine what antivirus software you are running including microsofts malware detection tool. You can safely kill it and try again but all sorts of system level services will get stopped.

My guess is right now SOMETHING is taking the computer away from you.

Are you down to a single NetMD device?

Hang in there, we will get you out somehow....

S

No, there isn't anything taking up that much CPU processes. Not even SS. Hmmm...

[sfbp]

Sent you a PM

[baturjan]

Start by deleting every "shadow" USB device you can find ("uninstalling"). Don't worry, this is quite safe, because the files are still there and will get reloaded automatically as needed. Detach the RH1, too. For good measure you can delete the non-USB "shadow" devices but I doubt it will help.

There may be, like, 50 Many of them may be USB storage devices.

Try a reboot and see if they are all still deleted.

Plug in the RH1, and the notification tray should pop up a balloon saying "HiMD Walkman" (I am assuming an SP disk in the device - if you have a HiMD disk then the driver isn't even an issue and won't be added in the first place, I think).

Now check the USB list. There should be exactly one entry for NetMD, and it should be in regular type (ie not greyed out or shadowed). Double click it, and look at the Driver tab to see what driver files got loaded. There's a button (not a tab) labelled "Driver Details". In the window that pops up it should show only one driver file, NETMD052.SYS, mine has a version number of 1.2.10.08080, copyright Sony Corporation and digitally signed by Microsoft Windows Hardware Compatibility.

If anything differs from this description, please post it here. Otherwise you should now be in business.

Happy New Year!

Thanks for this post. After following the first post, it was still slow. I had no Netmd or Sony stuff (hidden or otherwise) in the Device Manager. What fixed it for me (in addition to the first post's instructions) was to

- uninstall all the USB controllers

- restart

- plug in the RH1

- A new NetMD USB controller appeared in the Device Manager.

- Uninstall this controller

- Unplug and plug back in the RH1

- Windows alerted me to a new NetMD device and installed the drivers (I guess).

- Launched SonicStage, and the SP uploads screamed.

Thanks!

[Avrin]

Your system probably had another driver or filter on USB controllers that prevented RH1 from uploading at full speed. Uninstalling all USB controllers also removed this driver.

[Avrin]

As it turns out, the topic has become obsolete. Yesterday, when testing ATRAC frequency characteristics, I actually connected an RH1 to the PC that I am regularly using with my RH10 and one of my NH600s. And the RH1 uploaded at full speed. I've rechecked this today by reconnecting devices in various order, removing/reinstalling drivers, etc. - it still does, no matter what. Windows Device Manager shows that both NETMD033.sys and NETMD052.sys are loaded for the RH10 and the NH600 (after using the RH1), but only NETMD052.sys is loaded for the RH1.

And yes, the system is running SonicStage 4.3 "Ultimate".

Edited May 1, 2009 by Avrin

[baturjan]

As it turns out, the topic has become obsolete. Yesterday, when testing ATRAC frequency characteristics, I actually connected an RH1 to the PC that I am regularly using with my RH10 and one of my NH600s. And the RH1 uploaded at full speed. I've rechecked this today by reconnecting devices in various order, removing/reinstalling drivers, etc. - it still does, no matter what. Windows Device Manager shows that both NETMD033.sys and NETMD052.sys are loaded for the RH10 and the NH600 (after using the RH1), but only NETMD052.sys is loaded for the RH1.

And yes, the system is running SonicStage 4.3 "Ultimate".

I'm running SS 4.2 in XP (VirtualBox on a MacBook). Maybe SS 4.3 and/or Vista corrects the problem?

[Avrin]

My configuration is Windows XP SP3 English and SonicStage 4.3 "Ultimate". I don't think Vista or the original SonicStage 4.3 correct any problems - they create new ones instead. But OpenMG 5.0 and new Personal Audio drivers used in SonicStage 4.4 and "implanted" into SonicStage 4.3 "Ultimate" seem to solve some issues, including slow SP upload.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Avrin

[sfbp]

This sounds like very good news. I wonder whether all along it was the DRM paranoia that caused all this - something like polling all the time to prevent "in-clear" sound from leaking out to someone sniffing the USB bus?

Just to be clear, if I was to jump to your new version, all my files with DRM removed would play just fine, without any key restoration etc? I'll try it by installing on another machine, I think.

I was just thinking some more about what you said. Looks like the key is the device sensing system doesn't even load the extra drivers for the RH1. Presumably this comes from some modification to the .INF files. Not that I understand in detail how they work but maybe we have to "Exclude" the RH1 from the earlier driver INF files? If you felt like posting or PMing all 3 (NETMDUSB.INF, NETMD033.INF and NETMD052.INF) that would save me cleaning off a machine. It also might allow a simple fix for people who didn't want to reinstall SS, if I can figure out what has to be in there to suppress the dual=driver loading.

Edited May 1, 2009 by sfbp

[Avrin]

Just to be clear, if I was to jump to your new version, all my files with DRM removed would play just fine, without any key restoration etc?

Everything should happen exactly as if you were upgrading to the official SonicStage 4.3, the only difference being that drivers and OpenMG will be updated to more stable versions than the ones originally included with SonicStage 4.3.

I have tested upgrade scenarios from SonicStage 3.0, 3.4, and 4.2 to 4.3 "Ultimate" - everything seems fine. It even looks like the "Ultimate" version has no trouble installing over previous ones without first removing them. Even when the older version contains an OpenMG Limited Patch, which seemed to have caused trouble when upgrading to the original SonicStage 4.2.

But still a clean install is always better.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Avrin

[sfbp]

Everything should happen exactly as if you were upgrading to the official SonicStage 4.3, the only difference.... <snip>

But I'm already running 4.3

So if you felt able to let me have those three inf files I could at least see if they (as I think they are) caused the problem. This would in turn make a slightly easier process for folks not completely happy with replacing the "official" version.

Thanks

[sfbp]

Well, I threw your install (without giving any special thought to it) over top of my laptop installation. No big deal if I lost that database. (I un-DRMed it anyway)

Worked like a charm, and no second driver on the NetMD device that attaches to the RH1. All my files ok.

I checked the .INF files, they're identical. So I wonder what changed?

[Avrin]

Yes, the INF files (and SYS files, for that matter) are identical. But OpenMG components, including the ones used to interface with devices, are new. Probably now they are using NETMD052.sys in a different way.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Avrin

[sfbp]

That seems weird, because it looks (to me, and I am not a USB device driver expert) as if the INF files are supposed to determine what happens at device-sense time.

Sounds something like what I said in another post about the automatic polling of the NetMD device to make sure nothing leaks out. Probably just a bug though. I mean why would such a device require two drivers, one of which is evidently an upgrade of the other?????

I love the designation "Open" to imply "Closed". Very 1984.

[sfbp]

Bad news. I recently installed the Ultimate over top of my main SS installation. It worked fine for 2 weeks or so. Now I'm back to the double-driver-install problem and slow uploads unless and until I delete the drivers as previously discussed.

Any suggestions on how to diagnose this one, Avrin?

[Avrin]

The only thing I can think about is cleaning up the C:\WINDOWS\INF folder - it may still contain old versions of INF files.

First, remove all drivers as described in the first message here. Then go to the "C:\Program Files\Sony\Personal Audio Driver" folder, and study the content of INF files there. Then go to the "C:\WINDOWS\INF" folder, and find a set of files named OEM##.INF, where ## may be any number starting from 0. These files are copies of INF files used to install non-Microsoft hardware drivers to your PC, and they include Sony Personal Audio Drivers. Check all these files, comparing their content to that of the ones found in the "C:\Program Files\Sony\Personal Audio Driver" folder. Then delete all matching Sony INF files from "C:\WINDOWS\INF". Also delete any older Sony INF files of the similar nature, that may be present there. This should prevent your system from using old driver installation routines.

Be very careful not to remove unrelated INF files. Removing them will not damage the system directly, since the respective drivers are already installed, but will not allow the system to reinstall drivers in case of problems.

[sfbp]

What am I comparing in the content? Driverver= <date>,x.y.zz.nnnnn ?

The odd one out seems to be

; Sony Network Walkman(E)

; Copyright 1999-2001 Sony Corporation

[Version]

Signature="$CHICAGO$"

Class=USB

ClassGUID={36FC9E60-C465-11CF-8056-444553540000}

;CatalogFile=nwwmusb.cat

CatalogFile.NT=nwwmusb.cat

Provider=%NWWMUSB.Provider%

DriverVer=07/05/2001,1.3.00.07090

None of which is in the Personal Audio Driver folder.

Oh yes there's an E7 driver there too.

All the others are exact copies under different (as you say, OEMxx) names.

Deleted the whole lot from the WINDOWS\INF folder (there were 11 in all, and 11 .PNF files too).

[sfbp]

Update: did all that, and it worked.... sort of.

What's bizarre is that now the driver list shows (only) NETMD033.SYS regardless of whether I have RH1 or NH700 connected.

I will do some more checking, maybe some legacy of me fiddling around before.

Update: I figured out what happened. With those files gone from WINDOWS\INF the effect is that now I end up picking the driver file by hand. This is perfectly fine, except that i did it wrong because instead of choosing the file, it saw NetMD and picked the first one, which happened to be 033. When I deinstalled and picked 052. it worked as it should.

However this is suboptimal, trying to explain this to anyone who doesnt know what they're looking for is almost impossible. I am supposing that the program CopyInf.exe has to be run... but I didn't since maybe it takes parameters????

Stephen

[Avrin]

After removing drivers and OEM##.INF files, you may simply re-run SonicStage "ultimate" setup, and it will re-install new drivers. If you don't want to run the entire setup package again, press Cancel from the Welcome (second) screen, then go to the folder the installation package unpacked its files to (by default it is the SS43_ULTIMATE folder inside your temporary folder, but you may specify any folder to extract to), locate the Device\Driver\PA folder there and run setup.exe from this folder. Or download http://sonicstage.update.sony.net/v4400/JP...r/pa_driver.zip unzip it, and run setup.exe.

[vinnie52]

Just a note to thank everyone on this thread for the help / advice contained here.

My RH1 started running slowly after Sonicstage had an encounter with a NH900. I ended up deleting everything, including Registry USB's Hidden devices etc and re-installing. The after 3 attempts it finally condescended to load the Net Md Driver. I wouldn't say it's flying but so far it's quicker than re-recording SP to Hi-MD. The only thing I didn't try was Avrin's .inf suggestion.

Incidentally, I never encountered this problem before I switched to Vista.

Sony must REALLY hate their customers!

[Avrin]

Other places where unwanted INF files and drivers may possibly hide are the subfolders of "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRVSTORE" and those of "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\ReinstallBackups".

[sfbp]

Just a note to thank everyone on this thread for the help / advice contained here.

My RH1 started running slowly after Sonicstage had an encounter with a NH900. I ended up deleting everything, including Registry USB's Hidden devices etc and re-installing. The after 3 attempts it finally condescended to load the Net Md Driver. I wouldn't say it's flying but so far it's quicker than re-recording SP to Hi-MD. The only thing I didn't try was Avrin's .inf suggestion.

Incidentally, I never encountered this problem before I switched to Vista.

Sony must REALLY hate their customers!

I don't believe this one is Sony's fault - the USB device driver architecture is very strange and there exist people who make a living writing and rewriting USB driver code to try and cope with all the irregularities caused by different combinations of hardware, firmware, USB speed, hubs etc etc etc. One of them used to be my boss in another life.

The best way to describe what happens is to go back to the old floppy interleave problem - when speeds of data transfer were much slower. You could read every 3rd sector (in between sectors one would process the data). You could read every second sector, and still keep up. But if you tried to read every sector as it came by the head, the inter-sector gap represented too little time to deal with whatever it was you wanted to do with that sector. So the device didn't stream. You end up with only one sector being transferred for each revolution of the device. If the device had 10 sectors, the speed to read each sector in sequence, instead of being twice the speed of reading every second sector, was now 5 times as slow.

I won't bore you with the details of the solution to this problem but some were hardware (number the sectors on the disk differently during format) and some were software (read sector 1 and then look for sector 3 and so on).

Sony had the same (or similar) problem here. The USB devices (because of plug and play) are perpetually polling the drivers for any possible device connected to the USB bus, and in particular they do it between sectors. In their eagerness to stream data as fast as possible (a major marketing point which, I believe, caused them to rip data too fast from CD which I commented on elsewhere on this board) they optimized it without checking to see what happened with lots of old drivers hanging around. So you get a sudden degradation of speed when too many non-connected devices are polled in between each burst of data. Sony could have connected every known device to USB, but maybe they didn't even think of it. They DO warn not to use hubs to connect your MD

Also Vista probably has more overhead (on a given PC - perhaps you upgraded OS?), and the time taken to process each packet (or needed to service other interrupts) in Vista might be greater than in XP, for example. The price of Plug-And-Play???

I think it's a bit unfair of the folks who attribute conspiracy theories to Sony every time they see a product defect. The guys who developed this stuff worked in a sizeable engineering team with strict timelines, no doubt, and the necessity of trading off delivery against functionality is a really hard balance to keep. Generally their products are very well engineered - that's why most of us are here on this board. YES, they should have thought of this. NO, noone's perfect.

At least we know roughly how to avoid this when it happens. Certainly it made my RH1 little more than a nice toy for its first year of use.

[sfbp]

It's possible I may have discovered another facet to this problem. Even after Avrin's upgrade of the drivers etc. I found I had always to zap the other drivers when installing the RH1, to prevent slow upload.

But guess what: if I set the "Disc Mode" on the RH1 (before even inserting an SP or LP disk) to MD instead of HiMD, the problem goes away.

It seems likely that the "extra" driver gets loaded when the RH1, configured as a HiMD recorder, sees the SP/LP disk. You've all noticed how the interface (which shows HiMD in SoS) goes down (dih-duh) and then up again (duh-dih) changing, chameleon-like, to NetMD, ready for uploading. But it doesn't have to do this if we told it all along that the RH1 "is" a NetMD recorder.

I realise this is a nuisance to change every time you go out and use it for field recording. But for those of us who mostly use the RH1 for uploading, this is a small price to pay.

What I don't know is whether this solution *requires* anything that came from this thread, other than completely deleting all the NetMD drivers ONCE.

[Avrin]

Excellent!