Using Minidiscs WITHOUT Sonic Stage

[1kyle]

Hi all.

Whilst there is an ongoing effort in trying to use the data directly off MD's this is not turrning out to be so easy.

However the following method will work and allow you to store your music in decently archived libraries

Proviso For downloading to Minidisc -- YOU STILL WILL NEED SS to be installed however . You will also need a copy of SBurner (downloadable from the site).

For using most other music players including the new Sony one's then you won't need SS -- but if you don't use MD's then there are loads of other alternatives for you. This is purely for maintaining a RELIABLE music archive and still have MD functionality as well.

SB doesn't work (AFAIK) on VISTA so you'll need a copy of W2K, Windows XP. or W2K3. I recommend that you create a Virtual machine so you can run this stuff either under Linux or Windows -- your choice. -- Apple/Mac users can do something similar but I'm not sure

Note if you only have Windows Vista you can actually get a free copy of Windows XP from MS -- just say you need to "Downgrade" temporarily because of "driver" or other problems. You'll need to supply your l;egal VISTA product code. You should then get a decent SP2 fixed copy of XP. (When you "Re-upgrade" to VISTA (if ever) your license is still valid BTW.

For Virtual Machine software MS and Vbox both have free vm software. VMPLAYER is also free but can only handle existing virtual machines. Vmware and parallels are good paid for vm software solutions.

Tip you can actually create virtual machines in vmware workstation format using QEMU (google for this) and then vmplayer will work with your VM.

Now once you've built the VM install the Flac codec http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html. Also install CDex http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/

Both these are free

In the settings for CDEX set the Encoder to FLAC

ensure the CDDB settings are enabled as well so you can get track info etc (Remote CDDB)

Rip your CD

Now getting Music on to your MD is fairly simple

Create a CD with Nero / your CD / dvd burning software from the FLAC library. Create as an ISO (image) so don't burn a physical CD

Mount this as a virtual CD (either your Virtual machine software will handle this or something like NERO drive image etc etc.

use SB to rip your CD to MD. For "Self compiled CD's" you don't need to access gracenote etc as you've got the track names etc from the flac library.

Since also disc space is getting incredibly cheap you can even save the ISO's on another disc -- external USB 320 GB HD's now are around 100 USD. You can store around 500 - 600 FULL UNCOMPRESSED CD's on a tiny pocket device that can even be played on a laptop computer -- no separate power supply needed.

For Uploading your own recordings to computer you can either do it in real time -- I have a deck with optical out that connects to optical in on a computer ( I don't normally uplooad hours of stuff anyway so real time is fine for me) or in this case just use SS ONCE to get the stuff into the computer as WAV - then convert to FLAC (also Lossless) and delete from the SS library.

Whilst it's not exactly "Drag 'n Drop" the methodolgy I've shown here gives you a RELIABLE music archive that you can still use with your MD's and a methodolgy for creating your own album compilations which you can even save as CD ISO images (and burn to real CD's if you want to).

A typical CD Rip ==> flac takes around 5 -7 mins depending on your hardware and you only need to do it ONCE.

I'm not sure how many times I've messed around with the SS libraries - the DATABASE isn't the most robust system and the BIG DRAWBACK is that you can't span volumes -- how many of you these days only have one or 2 hard discs on your machines (or even only 1 computer.) This method allows you to use the same library across shared disks or even over a Network.

as stated above The FLAC library on an external disc can be plugged in to ANY computer without problems -- no need to connect to internet, backup and restore SS data base etc.

If you don't like FLAC use another Codec but FLAC seems future proof, is lossless and works quite efficiently.

WINAMP (Free) will play FLAC (as well as loads of others) directly. There's also articles on the web (google) on how to get Windows Media Player to play FLAC as well -- but why bothe when winamp does it perfectly and is free.

Added -- I don't purchase music from the so-called e-stores all my stuff comes either from CD's or from self recorded music.

If you are using music from downlaodable sources then this is usually or invariably already compressed so you'll have to find another method as each time you perform an operation on a Lossy File it degareds the wuality even more --even converting to WAV and then back again you'll lose some quality.

Flac supports ID tags (like MP3 tags) etc so you can add these manually in the case of your own recordings or recordings you've made in real time such as Optical Out to Optical In type of actions. For CD's the FREEDB is just as good (IMO) as the gracenote service for getting track and artist info.

Cheers

-K

Edited July 13, 2008 by 1kyle

[Avrin]

You don't actually need SS to be fully installed to do this. Only the OpenMG Secure Module, its patch (if any) and drivers are needed for SB to operate properly.

[1kyle]

You don't actually need SS to be fully installed to do this. Only the OpenMG Secure Module, its patch (if any) and drivers are needed for SB to operate properly.

Hi thanks -- I was hoping for something like that --but I know the full SS install works. I'm now running the thing under SUSE 11.0 with a Windows XP virtual machine -- latest VM release handles usb as a passthrough so the Virtual Windows machine can pick up the Minidisc / Net md drivers correctly rather than just looking at the Minidisc as an external storage disc. so it all works. This will ensure that whatever Microsoft does your Windows XP VM can run into the future as long as you want it to on any new computer you buy (assuming Intel is still around ).

I'll try the Open mg module etc and see if it still works. Good thing about Virtual machines is you can try something and if no good you just "bin it" and start again. No need to re-create Windows as I have a "Virgin" Windows XP machine with almost nothing installed other than the base OS with a few necessary components (IE/firefox etc).

I've got over 1000 CD's and after about 300 the SS library was getting hifeously corrupt (tracks getting detached from the correct album etc etc so I decided enough was enough). Pity in a way as the basic philosophy of SS wasn't too bad - but then DRM and other issues came along.

Fortunately Disc hardware is SO CHEAP these days that for most of us Disc storage isn't a problem - but actual media management is. That's why I can divide the flac libraries into sections and use something like MySql to mamage tracks etc etc.

In the MySQL database I also note what tracks / I've downloaded to what Minidisc -- I'm using Hi-SP for Hi-MD discs and SP for normal discs .

I tend to use the normal 74/80 (I've even got a few of the old 60 Min discs left so anybody worried about how reliable MD's are should have no fears on this one) for my own compilations and use Hi-MD for own recordings or if I'n travelling and use the MD as a music player.

Added some coments here - not particularly relevamnt to the thread but just some observations as to why it's worthwhile to do this stuff.

On good equipment IMO SP is indistinguishable from the original CD (especially at my age > 50) and even HI-SP plugged into the Line in on the equipment is still pretty good.

I've got plenty of media so I'm not likely to run out even if Sony stops making them tomorrow. The CD's are now nicely archived and I never have to get them out again. They can be stored in my loft right out of the way. If I get a new CD I extract it to FLAC immediately ad add it to the library.

I'm afraid anybody who only has experience of an Ipod (or equivalent) with compressed lossy music played on those horrrible bud phones really won't have a clue what I'm saying here -- but even music played on a computer with a decent soundcard falls quite far far short of relatively uncompressed music played on dedicated equipment.

Most computer sound equipment is designed for game playing or watching DVD's with dolby etc cinema surround -- different sort of requirements than for proper music (any type) listening. Not that it's bad -- it's just different and for a different type of audio experience.

Cheers

-K

Edited July 13, 2008 by 1kyle

[sfbp]

Funny, I didn't go straight to the "new posts" to read this. I woke up with an odd idea, and wanted to chase down your posts for the conversation about the blank formatted disk. And the weird thought was almost unrelated, yet it was related, as you will see, to your new thread.

What has been bugging me is the idea that I have to have so many CDs. (Not that I care THAT much but the S.O. is definitely making complaining noises). The "problem" is that nothing can read an ATRAC CD, except a few portable Sony DiscMen. But clearly, one could make an ATRAC CD, or better yet, DVD, with an absolute TON of compressed stuff on, comparable to a single HiMD disk. Of course one would need to read or mount said image(s).

For example, I have about 60 of the Goon Shows (out of around 100-130 that were ever broadcast). They fit nicely on one HiMD, and the quality is good enough at just about any data rate (many of them started off as recordings off the radio, now I am collecting them from the BBC R7 each week wherever I didn't have it). So to put them on a single DVD whence I could retrieve them would be very handy, provided I could later get them onto MD (or something else) to play back. So clearly if I could blast them to an image of an ATRAC CD (or better yet) some larger container whose image up to 4.7GB, there might be a way to have my eat and cake it.

I suppose knowing how to build a blank HiMD image is going to be part of this, just as you suggested.

Cheers

Stephen

Sorry didn't do any USB spying yet - was sorta thinking mebbe would use my 30-day license on that tool when you and I both have some time. I'll be busy to the end of the month now, but in August, who knows? Stay in touch.

[1kyle]

Hi there

haven't really had too much time recently but will get back again to OMA decoding.

However you can't unfortunately make SB retrieve music from a DVD -- it has to be a CD with a maximum music time of 152 minutes.

However making a number of ISO's -- using 256KB transfer in SB you can copy typically 7 CD's to 1 Hi-MD disk.

Just Burn 7 ISO's / NRG's Per Hi-MD . You create Audio CD but burn using image recorder. Now mount each "Virtual CD" and use SB to burn.

After each burn just unmount and mount the next image. -- OK a little pain but not too hideous.

BTW MD burner WILL handle CD Text if you want to add it before creating your compilations.

Here's a good link but skip the ASPI bit -- that's obsolete info (at least for Windows XP).

http://winnmd.net/cdtext4sb/RealOpenMDhowto.htm

Cheers

-K