Is there a sane successor to the minidisc for live recording?

[drleper]

Hi everyone,

After just losing power during a "system file write" on my minidisc and having months of recordings erased, I have decided to move away from the minidisc system. SonicStage and the ATRAC format is pain in the arse too, so I'm hoping for something a little more modern/sane. I do live recordings of many things, nature sounds, inner city sounds, live music, interviews, speeches etc. Does anyone here know of a solid state system that;

• Uses MP3/FLAC formats
• Allows you to copy files through USB/windows explorer
• Is as good at recording as the MD system
• Runs off regular AA batteries (preferable but not essential)

Thanks!

[Strungup]

Sony PCM D-50 , is the only LOGICAL comparison as it has basically the same mic pre in it .

and it is a modern version of the MZ1 the first MD recorder , in that it has Optical In/Out , Limiter , 20 db pad as well , Live Rec level control and the signature Sony Sound that we have come to expect from MD

As for MP3 recording , Tascam DR1 , but the Mics when your in Motion such as walking , have very very thin wires that will move and produce some static .

Many many new recorders on the Market , that record in MP3 , but I would think that if your doing true nature /Live/whatever , you would want the Quality

Look up the threads here about Tascam /Zoom/ M-Audio etc , follow the links , do some serious research before you buy . If I had the extra money right now I would get the PCM D-50 more than likely ( I know it works with my AT-822)

[ratbagradio]

It seems to me that if you used smaller capacity mini discs you wouldn't lose so much audio in the one collapse -- especially if you were recording to very high quality. I'd never record live to a 1GB disc for instance as I never trust the capacity of the machine to write the audio for very long periods of time. That way if it fails I am sure to lose all. The problem you face I suspect will be the same with any device that is run on batteries. Essentially any recording is as long or as secure as the batteries collective life.

I've had drop outs on minidisc and on mp3 recorders --simply because I underestimated the battery's reserve.

As for options the new Edirol is praised but, I point out that your problem may be recording protocol and I guess will be the same with another recording tool. The other associated complication with other devices I feel is that unless you want to store your audio on your computer or burn it to CD you won't have a ready means to store your collection as easy to review as the minidisc.

I even find that when you're recording a lot of material I fill up my computer's reserve very quickly and unless I burn the audio to CD or squish it to mp3 I cannot simply empty the next disc into the pc. I'm sure that's problem with other devices too. But of course with the mini disc -- no worries! -- you have discs!

So I'd think tahts' a real plus with the format. (EG: For quality recordings on Edirol you'll be stuck with huge wav files. where you gonna put those? Betyter sound that the MD -- very little compression -- but what to do with them if you wanted to archive the audio?)

I know it's not a great interface but the minidisc does offer a battery icon which visually suggests how much energy is left. Thats' a lot better than many mp3 devices (which give a quality that is unlikely to suit recording animal sounds in the field) but no battery monitor.

But hey! my heart goes out to you. But I'm still a bit confused how you could lose all your audio in a write. I'd have thought you'd only lose the stuff that was just recorded.

If you do buy another device it is also good practice -- and I do it with my interviews -- to use two devices to do the recording. I often supplement my minidisc recorder with an iRiver ftp (no longer made -- but it takes minidisc plug in power microphones)so I have an option if the primary recording source fails. One tip though: don't use a portable pc/laptop as a recording device as they can be notoriously fickle and podcasters -- like me -- are often warned against them in the field. Again you'll have a battery problem.

So my suggested solution: get another minidisc and record to two at the same time.Fool proof. with such a backup.And for crucial recording sessions always use fresh long life (not recharged) batteries.

You are not alone in the universe....

[philippeb]

But hey! my heart goes out to you. But I'm still a bit confused how you could lose all your audio in a write. I'd have thought you'd only lose the stuff that was just recorded.

In this regard, the move from MD to Hi-MD has been a severe regression. Like drleper, I have lost many Hi-MD recordings - but I have never lost a single MD track. In my opinion, the lack of robustness of Hi-MD is essentially due to the new logical storage format. We know that TOC can be lost, because it is the last piece of information written to disc. So the main question is: "Can we recover from a TOC loss?".

A legacy MD's contains a fixed size TOC, at a fixed location on disc. All data blocks are unencrypted and treated equally. This simplicity enables data block recovery via TOC cloning. It is easy to overwrite the lost TOC with a rescue TOC containing one track covering all data blocks on the disc. Yes, track info is lost in the process, but recorded material is always recovered - except in the case of physical damage.

Hi-MD storage format is more complex. The TOC has a variable size, at a variable location on disc. Another variabled sized data structure, the FAT, must be crossed to locate and access the TOC. Data blocks are not treated equally; some of them are encrypted. The consequence of those design choices is the absence of safe procedure to repair a damaged or lost TOC. Recorded material can indeed be lost!

Legacy MD is a reliable storage medium for audio recordings, Hi-MD is not.

[greenmachine]

So I'd think tahts' a real plus with the format. (EG: For quality recordings on Edirol you'll be stuck with huge wav files. where you gonna put those? Betyter sound that the MD -- very little compression -- but what to do with them if you wanted to archive the audio?)

Lossless compression like FLAC saves about 30-70% space, depending on the material. Recordings where (very) good instead of (bit-)perfect quality is sufficient can be lossily compressed. Saves about 75-90% of the space of the original wav file without significant perceived quality loss, depending on the format. Even higher compression ratios are possible for recordings where information is more important than quality. Huge external harddrives are not expensive these days. I save copies to two or more physically independent storage places for important recordings.

[ozpeter]

The TapersSection forums have lots of user feedback on portable recording devices, some of which might be seen as alternatives to minidisc - http://taperssection.com/index.php/board,11.0.html

Comparison chart can be found at http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/compare-port...-recorders.html

[Strungup]

Lossless compression like FLAC saves about 30-70% space, depending on the material. Recordings where (very) good instead of (bit-)perfect quality is sufficient can be lossily compressed. Saves about 75-90% of the space of the original wav file without significant perceived quality loss, depending on the format. Even higher compression ratios are possible for recordings where information is more important than quality. Huge external harddrives are not expensive these days. I save copies to two or more physically independent storage places for important recordings.

There is a prog for mac that will turn everything you have to FLAC if you want it to ..........Thinking about getting it

http://twistedwave.com/TwistedFLAC.html

Edited July 26, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[JM Charcot]

Sony PCM D-50 , is the only LOGICAL comparison as it has basically the same mic pre in it .

and it is a modern version of the MZ1 the first MD recorder , in that it has Optical In/Out , Limiter , 20 db pad as well , Live Rec level control and the signature Sony Sound that we have come to expect from MD

As for MP3 recording , Tascam DR1 , but the Mics when your in Motion such as walking , have very very thin wires that will move and produce some static .

Many many new recorders on the Market , that record in MP3 , but I would think that if your doing true nature /Live/whatever , you would want the Quality

Look up the threads here about Tascam /Zoom/ M-Audio etc , follow the links , do some serious research before you buy . If I had the extra money right now I would get the PCM D-50 more than likely ( I know it works with my AT-822)

Did you have the opportunity to plug your AT-822 in the new Edirol R09-HR?

I'm wondering if that improved model can be compared to the PCM D-50..

Thanks,

JM.

[Strungup]

Did you have the opportunity to plug your AT-822 in the new Edirol R09-HR?

I'm wondering if that improved model can be compared to the PCM D-50..

Thanks,

JM.

Not yet , I was kind f wondering that Myself , the New R-09 is sounding pretty good , I heard some samples from it The Headphone amp is quite an Improvement over the previous version , and for a little over a Hundred dollars less than the D50 , it might be worth looking at . But I haven't played with the inputs yet.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Guitarfxr

[JM Charcot]

Not yet , I was kind f wondering that Myself , the New R-09 is sounding pretty good , I heard some samples from it The Headphone amp is quite an Improvement over the previous version , and for a little over a Hundred dollars less than the D50 , it might be worth looking at . But I have played with the inputs yet

I'm waiting for your feedback before buying it..!

I've been so disapointed with the Marantz PMD-620 that I don't want to make the same mistake twice..

Kind regards,

JM.

[Strungup]

I'm waiting for your feedback before buying it..!

I've been so disapointed with the Marantz PMD-620 that I don't want to make the same mistake twice..

Kind regards,

JM.

What would you trade for the 620 ?

[JM Charcot]

What would you trade for the 620 ?

Well I already sold it...

[JM Charcot]

Arni99 uploaded some comparisons with his RH1 and R09-HR, external mic and internal :

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,1...html#msg1452128

Really interesting...

JM.

[Strungup]

That does say something doesnt it , I have always known the the preamps in the Sony have been top notch , which is why I stated the D50 would be the only LOGICAL replacement , the preamps the the D50 are the same if not a little better than the Sony MD series

The MZ-R50 is where Sony got it right the first time (I have one ) the RH1 is where they Finished the process by adding PCM capability and USB interface all in one , the only problem .......... No Limiter . Hence the PCM-D50 Same Micpre or Better , plus Limiter and Optical interfacing for hi end equipment .