Mini Disc compatability problem

[Trepic1200]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can help me? A few weeks ago I purchased 37 used Mini Discs from a guy on Ebay who has 100% feedback. He said he had used the discs once and then erazed them. I used two of the discs to record a concert by a friend, The discs seemed to record OK and it said it was underwriting them at the end, but when I tried to access them the next day all it would say was DISC ERROR and I couldn't access them. I tried recording on several of the other discs which were from various manufacturers such as Samsung & Sony.

I wonder if the reason I can't use these discs is because they were erazed on a machine that is much younger than my JVC XM-228 MD Recorder ? perhaps there is a backwards compatability issue? I wonder if it is possible for me to be able to use these discs or am I stuck with 37 useless discs and £30 out of pocket?

If anyone could help, especially if they know of a solution I would be very grateful as I'm disabled and £30 is a considerable amount of money to me.

Kindest Regards

Gerald

[sfbp]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can help me? A few weeks ago I purchased 37 used Mini Discs from a guy on Ebay who has 100% feedback. He said he had used the discs once and then erazed them. I used two of the discs to record a concert by a friend, The discs seemed to record OK and it said it was underwriting them at the end, but when I tried to access them the next day all it would say was DISC ERROR and I couldn't access them. I tried recording on several of the other discs which were from various manufacturers such as Samsung & Sony.

I wonder if the reason I can't use these discs is because they were erazed on a machine that is much younger than my JVC XM-228 MD Recorder ? perhaps there is a backwards compatability issue? I wonder if it is possible for me to be able to use these discs or am I stuck with 37 useless discs and £30 out of pocket?

If anyone could help, especially if they know of a solution I would be very grateful as I'm disabled and £30 is a considerable amount of money to me.

Kindest Regards

Gerald

Have you used your deck (for recording) with any disks you had from before, any time recently? I'm rather afraid this symptom means your overwrite head has died. In this case, absent genius repair, you are going to have to throw away the deck. Sorry.

You can still play back what you have, but any attempt to modify any disk will render it blank. Sigh.

[kino170878]

Try ebay UK there should be some dirt cheap MD portables and even decks. The discs should work I think.

[Trepic1200]

Hello,

Thank you for your reply, Yes I have tried other discs, both ones I have used previously and a New Mini Disc, they all work fine, I can record, eraze and record again, it's just this batch that I purchased second hand from this guy on Ebay that I cannot record onto and then access.

Kindest regards

Gerald

Have you used your deck (for recording) with any disks you had from before, any time recently? I'm rather afraid this symptom means your overwrite head has died. In this case, absent genius repair, you are going to have to throw away the deck. Sorry.

You can still play back what you have, but any attempt to modify any disk will render it blank. Sigh.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Gerald53

[Abby Normal]

Fascinating. Could you let us know the brand(s) of these discs for our future protection? (Or perhaps the experienced folks will not be surprised.) On the other hand, maybe the seller's MD-unit formatted a part of the disc that was never meant to be touched. Anybody have any information on this type of thing happening before?

Hello,

Thank you for your reply, Yes I have tried other discs, both ones I have used previously and a New Mini Disc, they all work fine, I can record, eraze and record again, it's just this batch that I purchased second hand from this guy on Ebay that I cannot record onto and then access.

Kindest regards

Gerald

Edited July 3, 2009 by narp

[bobt]

before using try doing a format, either from your unit, or though SS and see what happens

Bob

[sfbp]

Note folks: format will always work, even with a busted overwrite head. Doesn't mean that the disks can be recorded, just wiped.

The significant assertion you make, Gerald, is that you can still write other disks successfully. That's really good news. Have you got just one disk you don't mind losing ALL of, and can delete ONE track only, but not all the tracks? This would prove that things are really in order - at the moment, the information seems to be a bit conflicting.

I for one have never had a disk that didn't work at all. The worst I ever got was one (brand new) disk with a bad patch, and one disk where the shell had a monstrous crack in it, suggesting major damage to the whole thing.

[Trepic1200]

Note folks: format will always work, even with a busted overwrite head. Doesn't mean that the disks can be recorded, just wiped.

The significant assertion you make, Gerald, is that you can still write other disks successfully. That's really good news. Have you got just one disk you don't mind losing ALL of, and can delete ONE track only, but not all the tracks? This would prove that things are really in order - at the moment, the information seems to be a bit conflicting.

I for one have never had a disk that didn't work at all. The worst I ever got was one (brand new) disk with a bad patch, and one disk where the shell had a monstrous crack in it, suggesting major damage to the whole thing.

Hi,

Sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend. I have taken one of the discs put it in my machine and it displays "BLANK DISC" I then recorded a track to it, everything works fine, it says underwriting and then when everything has finished I ejected the disc, I put it back it and it says "TOC Reading" a makes a few noises and then after about 15 to 20 seconds it says "DISC ERROR"

I then took your advice and took a disc I had previously recorded onto which contained an album of 22 songs, I deleted track 11 and played the disc, it played OK. I then ejected it and it said "TOC UNDERWRITING" After it ejected I placed it back in the machine, instead of displaying the the remaining 21 songs it now said "BLANK DISC" So I am presuming that this means there is a fault with my machine? I repeaed this process with another previously recorded disc with the same result. By the way there is no format facility with my JVC XM-228 machine.

Hoping you can help & advise me.

Kindest regards

Gerald

[sfbp]

This means I was right. Sorry. Time to discard the machine and get a new (second hand one). We will be as much help as we can be in choosing you one.

Cheers

Stephen

[Trepic1200]

This means I was right. Sorry. Time to discard the machine and get a new (second hand one). We will be as much help as we can be in choosing you one.

Cheers

Stephen

Hello Stephen,

Thank you for all your help, it's been a great machine which has given good service. I was looking last night for a suitable replacement, I need a recorder that I can use for recording a friend at concerts, I record off the mixing desk, so I need phono inputs which isn't a problem, unless they have changed things. What I could also do with is an optical output, my present machine only has an optical input. An optical output would preserve the quality better. Last night I found after doing a little research a SONY MDS JB980 which seems to get decent reviews, I wonder if you could confirm this choice or suggest something else? I really appreciate the help & assistance that yourself and other members have given me.

Kindest regards

Gerald

[sfbp]

Hello Stephen,

Thank you for all your help, it's been a great machine which has given good service. I was looking last night for a suitable replacement, I need a recorder that I can use for recording a friend at concerts, I record off the mixing desk, so I need phono inputs which isn't a problem, unless they have changed things. What I could also do with is an optical output, my present machine only has an optical input. An optical output would preserve the quality better. Last night I found after doing a little research a SONY MDS JB980 which seems to get decent reviews, I wonder if you could confirm this choice or suggest something else? I really appreciate the help & assistance that yourself and other members have given me.

Kindest regards

Gerald

I forgot to mention that this dying of the overwrite head seems quite common, and can sometimes be fixed if it is a result of a broken ribbon cable on portables, notably the MZ-S707. In some cases it can even be mispositioning (stuck) in the vertical plane for mechanical reasons. If you are good at such things there's an outside chance it's reparable. Do NOT take it to a shop, and do NOT try to order the replacement part, as it will cost you of the order of a new machine, even if it is available. On Sony's units the smallest replaceable unit is effectively what they call the BD board (the Sony service manuals are all here on MDCF) however I'm not absolutely certain about the JVC as they seem to have made this unit, and then no more like it since about 10 years ago (the manual date is 08/98). The BD board is effectively the entire disk drive, sigh.

The only time I had a deck die it was because of this fault. It had been sitting unused through a very hot summer, and the next fall I tried it, and it had died. The only portable I had that died came "pre-ruined" (and at a 90% discount off RRP) as the overwrite head was completely busted off probably from someone inserting their first disk the wrong way, otherwise brand new.

Your choice of the JB980 is an excellent one, the last deck-only model marketed by Sony (I wish I could lay my hands on one!!). It has the latest non-HiMD technology and an optical out. You are in the UK and the supply of both decks and portables available to you is better than it is here in Canada. In fact I have ended up sourcing items via the long-suffering assistance of my family in England, through ebay.co.uk.

However there are several models that will do the same thing, and depending on your application, may be good enough. These include the JE780, the JE640 (I have one) and the JB940 (a slight upgrade of the JE640). All have optical out and MDLP (allowing doubling or quadrupling recording time with concomitant quality loss); as well the 780 and 980 both have what is called "Type-S" which is a playback enhancement technology for LP2 (and LP4, though for music you probably don't care much).

Since you are currently using SP, you may or may not welcome the higher storage. If you really want the continued Hi-Fi (and it sounds like you do), there is definitely an argument for staying with a simple deck (non-MDLP), and you could pick one up for 30 quid or so. However any Sony deck numbered less than 500 (3xx,4xx) will not have optical out, regardless.

Looking at today's offerings: why not see about this one. Coax and Toslink (optical) digital in and out, but no LP. There is a second one for a bit more, and also a couple of JE780's, all listed for a couple of days hence. The one in the link is missing some bits which made it cheaper, but I am sure you could get them separately if they were needed. Avoid the 500 and 510, although the 520 and 530 are probably ok. I expect you found the Home Audio Minidisc Category already, it's sort of hidden as MD is not so popular as before.

Good luck! (feel free to send me a PM for details that you feel would be better discussed privately).

[Trepic1200]

I forgot to mention that this dying of the overwrite head seems quite common, and can sometimes be fixed if it is a result of a broken ribbon cable on portables, notably the MZ-S707. In some cases it can even be mispositioning (stuck) in the vertical plane for mechanical reasons. If you are good at such things there's an outside chance it's reparable. Do NOT take it to a shop, and do NOT try to order the replacement part, as it will cost you of the order of a new machine, even if it is available. On Sony's units the smallest replaceable unit is effectively what they call the BD board (the Sony service manuals are all here on MDCF) however I'm not absolutely certain about the JVC as they seem to have made this unit, and then no more like it since about 10 years ago (the manual date is 08/98). The BD board is effectively the entire disk drive, sigh.

The only time I had a deck die it was because of this fault. It had been sitting unused through a very hot summer, and the next fall I tried it, and it had died. The only portable I had that died came "pre-ruined" (and at a 90% discount off RRP) as the overwrite head was completely busted off probably from someone inserting their first disk the wrong way, otherwise brand new.

Your choice of the JB980 is an excellent one, the last deck-only model marketed by Sony (I wish I could lay my hands on one!!). It has the latest non-HiMD technology and an optical out. You are in the UK and the supply of both decks and portables available to you is better than it is here in Canada. In fact I have ended up sourcing items via the long-suffering assistance of my family in England, through ebay.co.uk.

However there are several models that will do the same thing, and depending on your application, may be good enough. These include the JE780, the JE640 (I have one) and the JB940 (a slight upgrade of the JE640). All have optical out and MDLP (allowing doubling or quadrupling recording time with concomitant quality loss); as well the 780 and 980 both have what is called "Type-S" which is a playback enhancement technology for LP2 (and LP4, though for music you probably don't care much).

Since you are currently using SP, you may or may not welcome the higher storage. If you really want the continued Hi-Fi (and it sounds like you do), there is definitely an argument for staying with a simple deck (non-MDLP), and you could pick one up for 30 quid or so. However any Sony deck numbered less than 500 (3xx,4xx) will not have optical out, regardless.

Looking at today's offerings: why not see about this one. Coax and Toslink (optical) digital in and out, but no LP. There is a second one for a bit more, and also a couple of JE780's, all listed for a couple of days hence. The one in the link is missing some bits which made it cheaper, but I am sure you could get them separately if they were needed. Avoid the 500 and 510, although the 520 and 530 are probably ok. I expect you found the Home Audio Minidisc Category already, it's sort of hidden as MD is not so popular as before.

Good luck! (feel free to send me a PM for details that you feel would be better discussed privately).

Hello Stephen,

Thank you for the further advice, as I have to stick this machine in my car boot when I am transporting it to gigs, it may mean that although I wrap it very carefully to protect it, that the ribbon cable may well have come loose, i'll have to get inside and have a look, I'm quite handy, but I'm no expert.

I did have a look at the link you sent and I had seen it last night but was a little put off by the no remote, no manual, sold as seen description, however after deciding to put a watch on it, I looked for the same model and came across another one at £69.99 or best offer, which is sold by a shop in Sheffield about 30 miles away, this comes with a guarantee, manual and remote, so I'm seriously considering it. The other machine that I mentioned the JB980, is also for sale on Ebay, but the price is £169 quite a bit of difference and as money is tight, I think your suggestion is better. By the way if you want to know about the artist I'm recording at gigs have a look here: http://www.jonathankelly.co.uk/ He's not famous now but he was once and he's a great guy.

I'll let you know how I get on, Thank you again for all the great help & advice.

All the best

Gerald

[sfbp]

Just a note, there are two heads, one under, that looks like a normal CD/DVD laser optical head; and one over, which is square and OVER the other one. They close in on the MD like a pair of pincers, and the top is called the "overwrite" head. You can visually inspect it to see if it is bent, or you can check the connections, to see if they are intact, using a volt meter. It's incredibly fragile, and moving, and so no wonder a bit vulnerable. This explains why you can read and erase but not write as the overwrite is needed to heat the MD to its Curie point and now the laser's signal gets recorded. - I think have that right but the proper explanation is here on the site.

You might want this one because it comes with the right size flight case for lugging around. The remote is really not a problem, here's the one you want. However an email to the second vendor may establish it's in better shape (and comes with a remote). I would not necessarily trust a shop more than an individual unless you know them - in my experience a private person owning an MD either

1. doesn't know what he has because it was someone else's and he hasn't damaged it

2. has looked after it because MD owners tend to be fussy people who look after their stuff

Just my 2p.

Stephen

PS the manuals are all here, specifically the 920's here. I linked to the MDCF page for the unit because the service manual is listed as well as the operator's manual.

[Trepic1200]

Just a note, there are two heads, one under, that looks like a normal CD/DVD laser optical head; and one over, which is square and OVER the other one. They close in on the MD like a pair of pincers, and the top is called the "overwrite" head. You can visually inspect it to see if it is bent, or you can check the connections, to see if they are intact, using a volt meter. It's incredibly fragile, and moving, and so no wonder a bit vulnerable. This explains why you can read and erase but not write as the overwrite is needed to heat the MD to its Curie point and now the laser's signal gets recorded. - I think have that right but the proper explanation is here on the site.

You might want this one because it comes with the right size flight case for lugging around. The remote is really not a problem, here's the one you want. However an email to the second vendor may establish it's in better shape (and comes with a remote). I would not necessarily trust a shop more than an individual unless you know them - in my experience a private person owning an MD either

1. doesn't know what he has because it was someone else's and he hasn't damaged it

2. has looked after it because MD owners tend to be fussy people who look after their stuff

Just my 2p.

Stephen

PS the manuals are all here, specifically the 920's here. I linked to the MDCF page for the unit because the service manual is listed as well as the operator's manual.

Hello Stephen,

Thank you for the added info, I intend to have a look at my machine later today, it's a bit hectic here as we have several hospital appointments to attend and I have only just returned from one.

I have made an offer on the machine in the shop in Sheffield which is advertised on Ebay, If they decline my offer I will look at the machine you sugested, the one with the flight case, unfortunately I didn't get your latest message until after I had put my offer in and I'm bound by Ebay's agreement to honour my bid, so I'll wait and see what happens.

I'll let you know how I get on,

Thanks' again

Gerald

[sfbp]

Either way, the 920 is one of the few that has the top quality D-to-A (so-called "current pulse" DAC). So I think you just need to look for a unit with signs that it has been well cared for and not used too much.

Good luck! (the remotes are pretty interchangeable although the machines seem to have a preference for narrow vs wide). The only feature I would really like on this that it doesn't have (and which the 930 and up all do have), is a PS/2 keyboard for titling.

[philippeb]

Either way, the 920 is one of the few that has the top quality D-to-A (so-called "current pulse" DAC). So I think you just need to look for a unit with signs that it has been well cared for and not used too much.

I own a second-hand MDS-JB920. I confirm that this is a wonderful unit, superior in hardware and firmware to the MDS-JA333ES (that I have bought new) for SP and MONO recordings.

[sfbp]

Having said that, there is a very nice JB940 (ie with keyboard input) if you didn't get the 920, currently at 30 quid + 10 shipping.