A440 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've been saving the MZ-RH1 while I use my MZ-NH700 for live recording. But I tried to start it up today and....my two LIP-4WM batteries seem to be defunct. I know lithium ion batteries decline with or without use, but I'm not happy that the MZ-RH1 has become a desktop rather than a portable. Do any of the electronics experts here know how to reawaken the LIP-4WM batteries? They had not gone through many charge-discharge cycles at all--it was just shelf time. I'm in New York City, where you can usually buy everything, but I can't find a place selling LIP-4WM--just Hong Kong sellers on eBay with what look like fakes (instead of the Recycle symbol on the front of my Sony, there are other variations). Anyone know where to find a new Sony LIP-4WM? Sonystyle doesn't.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) The RH1 is known not to detect a battery when it is discharged below some level. But such batteries can usually be detected and recharged by more precisely calibrated units, e.g., the NH3D or the NH1. I'm storing my LIP-4WM's fully charged (by the NH3D, which does it much better than the RH1), and fully discharge and recharge them once in a few months. Edited September 23, 2009 by Avrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 The RH1 is known not to detect a battery when it is discharged below some level. Actually it detects it and shows the charging icon for a few minutes. But after being plugged in overnight, there's still no power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Actually it detects it and shows the charging icon for a few minutes. But after being plugged in overnight, there's still no power. OK. Here's my question. Does it refuse to work connected to USB? Also, did you in former times leave it (or them!) connected to USB for long periods, rather than charging with the wall charger? I definitely remember this business of it refusing to accept charge. The battery that did this is still alive and kicking a**. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 OK. Here's my question. Does it refuse to work connected to USB? Also, did you in former times leave it (or them!) connected to USB for long periods, rather than charging with the wall charger? It works connected to USB. Mostly it has sat around disconnected, not constantly charging. One battery was in the unit, one (possibly counterfeit, but worked at the time) outside. I'm still trying to wake it up. It does two or three different things. On plugging in, it shows the battery animation and smoothly goes through all the segments, before the battery animation disappears after a few minutes. Or it shows the animation, goes through four segments, goes through two segments, goes through four segments, etc., before the animation disappears. This is via USB from a wall socket. I also found my Gomadic4-AA power supply, and it shows Charging with that too, for a short time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I'm actually wondering if it's overcharged rather than under-charged. What happens if you immediately (after seeing the start of charging) press play? Added: oh, I am starting to remember now. There's a tricky way to reset the unit. Maybe you need that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrin Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) There is a method to discharge a battery much deeper than just by running the unit until the "LOW BATTERY" indication. This may help in "forming" it. But it may be dangerous with the RH1, since it doesn't detect deeply discharged batteries. The method is very simple - enter the service mode, and leave the unit in it (with the screen flashing) until it switches off (this may take from several minutes to several hours). Then fully recharge the battery. Edited September 23, 2009 by Avrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Pressing play while Charging is on: The charging animation goes for about 5 seconds and then it starts to play (on USB power). No more charging animation, even after stopping Play. The unit and batteries have been sitting idle for a long time, months at least, while I rock out with the NH700. I don't think over-charging is what's going on. To do the service-mode tweak I'd have to do it on wall power. Battery by itself doesn't do anything. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 USB power or wall power? (Presumably wall power since with USB power you can only do things from the 'puter, right?) So now what happens, if, while playing, you unplug the power source? I seem to recall this scenario after I left it unused for 6 months. If you can now play on its own, just let it play awhile. What does the battery indicator show? One more thing: is it anything to do with the fact that the last time you were charging it you were back in Blighty but now you are on 110V, with the SAME charger (yes, I realise it's specced for 110-230)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Anyone know where to find a new Sony LIP-4WM? Sonystyle doesn't.... Here is a seller I had good luck with: LIP4WM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 I let it play for a while connected to the wall charger, and the charging animation ran as it played for at least 15-20 minutes, possibly an hour, but the battery didn't hold any charge. I also dug out my Gomadic 4-AA USB power gizmo and did four hours of recording with it and some playback--man, that RH1 sounds good!--and it too showed the charging symbol, but no charge occurred. So I'm thinking the battery is kaput. Sony did offer to "repair" the battery--how?--for an unspecified price or sell me a new one for a mere $49.99 plus shipping. I went the eBay route instead. The new battery is on the proverbial slow boat from China. I wasn't in the UK with the MZ-RH1--you must be thinking of someone else. Anyway, thanks for all the advice. I still haven't tried the service mode business because I'm not sure what it would accomplish and I don't access service mode casually. But if you think it would help given these other attempts, go ahead and encourage me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 It's getting clearer to me with every iteration. I think what I did was leave the RH1 batteryless overnight. Intuitively this makes sense to me.... maybe it gets back its ability to discriminate between charged and uncharged batteries. I recall it was you talking about Westminster Abbey so I had you pegged for a Brit. Sorry. I did just the same, ordered another battery - by the time it arrived my original battery was back in the land of the living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 (edited) Plugging in, playing, and then disconnecting--it goes dead. No battery charge. I'm going to try letting the RH1 play a full disc overnight on wall power with no battery, but that will be a few days from now. I'm not holding out much hope--and let's hope the new batteries from China aren't also at the end of their shelf life. Proprietary batteries....grrrr, design over functionality. Give me a bulgy unit and a Duracell any day. Ah, and you remember the Westminster Abbey recording! I was being a total tourist. Which reminds me--is our Gallery on this new site? And the Browser with all specs, photos and user and service manual links? Edited September 28, 2009 by A440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Plugging in, playing, and then disconnecting--it goes dead. No battery charge. I'm going to try letting the RH1 play a full disc overnight on wall power with no battery, but that will be a few days from now. I'm not holding out much hope--and let's hope the new batteries from China aren't also at the end of their shelf life. Proprietary batteries....grrrr, design over functionality. Give me a bulgy unit and a Duracell any day. Ah, and you remember the Westminster Abbey recording! I was being a total tourist. Which reminds me--is our Gallery on this new site? And the Browser with all specs, photos and user and service manual links? The browser is still in its old location. The gallery and downloads, I dunno. Downloads is gone, and the biggest prb rite now is all crosslinks (external and internal) are broken, cos they point to the old server. Not sure that playing from the wall socket helps. However I think that completely removing all power sources overnight may do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted October 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 New battery has arrived from Shanghai, and it charges. Phew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormby Posted October 8, 2009 Report Share Posted October 8, 2009 I've been saving the MZ-RH1 while I use my MZ-NH700 for live recording. But I tried to start it up today and....my two LIP-4WM batteries seem to be defunct. I know lithium ion batteries decline with or without use, but I'm not happy that the MZ-RH1 has become a desktop rather than a portable. Do any of the electronics experts here know how to reawaken the LIP-4WM batteries? They had not gone through many charge-discharge cycles at all--it was just shelf time. I'm in New York City, where you can usually buy everything, but I can't find a place selling LIP-4WM--just Hong Kong sellers on eBay with what look like fakes (instead of the Recycle symbol on the front of my Sony, there are other variations). Anyone know where to find a new Sony LIP-4WM? Sonystyle doesn't.... Hey there. I have 4 of those batteries you r talking about. one is orig when i bought disc.the 2 from china,Panasonic) and one here in the store where I live.... They all work fine.. I also 2 found on EBAY...... It was tricky to find, but I found them. did u need one? whats your request? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Their have been several mentions of fully discharging the battery to help "reform" it. Lithium Ion batteries do NOT like to be fully discharged, it will shorten their life. Their is no "memory effect" in these batteries. The best practice is to recharge after each use, and storage at 40% of charge. Also, avoid overcharging. They are less tolerant of overcharge than NiMh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A440 Posted October 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 I have 4 of those batteries you r talking about. did u need one? whats your request? Thanks, gormby, but I picked up a couple on eBay and they're working, so I don't need any more. Appreciate the offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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