If you have 5 minutes, please can you help with my first download.

[Soundbox]

I would appreciate your input on my first music download - I am well behind the times I admit. What I want to do is get my (one) downloaded track onto MD to listen to without using the headphone socket of my laptop.

So far I have:

1. Dowloaded Avrin's SonicStage 4.3 for 32 bit Vista.

2. Downloaded Amazon's MP3 program.

3. Downloaded the track I want (it plays perfectly in SS).

What I want to do is now get it onto my MD without losing any quality at all. I idealy want it in the proprer SP standard so I can play it on my portable and home deck. If that is not possible, or is only possible without losing quality, please can you tell me what setting I need to use?

Any advice would be appreciated - I have the track ready in my computer but at the moment it is stuck there.

The equipment I have is: MZ-R30, MZ-RH1, MZ-NH600. Is any of this suitable?

Thank you, Ian (long time MD user, newbie MP3 user)

[sfbp]

1. Hook up your NetMD device - the 'puter should make the :USB connected: duh-di sound.

1a. if your NetMD device is the JB980 and you haven't already done so, turn on NetMD by pressing the button on the front panel which should now glow green - if you didn't get it before, now should get the sound of USB being found.

1b. If both of the above fail, check the installation of your NetMD drivers for the deck/portable (I am assuming you got past all that part as I recall you asking for the drivers).

2. Fire up SonicStage, select the album/track you want in the left pane. Click on the Transfer button at the top and you should see NetMD as one of the dropdowns (if there is a disk in the machine). If it had something already on it, so much the better as long as it isn't formatted as a HiMD disk. You should be able to see the existing sound files on it.

3. Click the black briefcase thingy in the middle (between the panes) and choose the third radio button - SP mode. Don't do this routinely unless you have to (this is the case today but often it won't be!), it's simply because you are converting to LP2 anyway, and the SP mode offers NO increase in quality over LP2 when using SonicStage (No, don't ask!!!!).

4. (Assuming the left pane still has your song selected, the .mp3) Click the red arrow and watch the transfer.

To be doubly sure I just did all this, first on a NetMD portable, the MZ-N910, then repeated on the MDS-JB980. Worked. Pretty slow on the 980, so you might be better off using the RH1, or NH600 since you have them.

I'm afraid that MP3 and loss-of-quality are synonyms in the setup you describe. The only way you avoid degrading the sound further from MP3 is to transfer it to the RH1 (or another MD device that supports MP3 playback) directly without conversion.

I have written this from the POV of someone unfamiliar with using SonicStage. My apologies if you are way past this, but I seem to remember you saying you only just got "into" USB and computers and all that stuff.

Stephen

PS I checked the results by playing that track in an SP-only deck.

[Soundbox]

Thank you Stephen.

That was great (and very kind of you too) - and no, not to basic at all - this is the first time I have downloaded any music. Despite reading the instruction manual for my JB980, the recently aquired NH600 (and the RH1 which I have been lent - nice machine that), they only spoke of working with CD's.

May I ask what the loss of quality is when using MP3's transfered the ATRAC system? I have been spending some time reading through old threads here and I do recall reading about that issue. If the drop in quality from the original MP3 is notable, I may as well not bother purchacing any more uploads and just save for the whole CD. I could save MP3 to the RH1 direct, but then it would not play back on my RH600 as far as I can tell.

I will try and transfer this evening.

Thank you again,

Ian

PS. Do you (or anybody else here) bother to purchace MP3's or is it not worth it with MiniDisk?

[sfbp]

I've never done it (donwloading). My test files started out as .WAV and got converted by me to MP3.

A lot depends on the bitrate (#) and whether constant or variable bitrate. The higher bitrates are thought to be ok. But 128K MP3 will not, IMO, be close to a 132K (LP2) ATRAC track. Worse still, cross converting will likely make artifacts (in either direction). But downconverting (high rate MP3 or WAV) to lower rate ATRAC may be just fine.

Just remember, do NOT use SS to rip your CD's onto the PC. SimpleBurner does a better job, and so does the free EAC.

The NH600 will not play MP3 directly.

As you know, Sony gave up the war, and provides a free of charge ATRAC->MP3 converter (I think it's just part of SS, but I honestly don't remember). Sounds like MP3's need "help", for example the Sony Head units have something called BBE which is supposed to "fix" the most obvious problems with MP3 playback. I have no opinion as to whether they do.

[Soundbox]

Thank you again.

Well I thought that I had succeded as it uploaded fine onto a partially used MD. I did one transfer that was supposed to be an unmodifed MP3 and then one converted to SP. I used the load RH1 (which I think I will buy after all as it seems versatile) however, when I play back the recording I find that both the MP3 and SP versions play in my JE510 track, the MP3 version plays a silence. Something is wrong...

So I try the disk on my NH600 and the MP3 track plays as LP2, meaning that either my computer or the RH1 is changing the MP3 to ATRAC even though I did not tell it to. I have had enough shenannigans tonight so I will spend more time with it tomorrow.

I listened to the track and I must say that the 'false' MP3 and the SP version sounds a bit metallic, so I have been put off spending much more on this music buying method.

Ian

[md user]

For another (simpler) route, have you tried just playing an mp3 file via the PC's optical into your deck? (Soundcards with optical out are now cheap.)

Personally, I listen to 32 to 320kbps mp3's all the time - great fun! The only requirement is: don't treat them 'too seriously'. In normal SP mode, I have not yet nor have been bothered to tell whether anything was lost in the mp3 conversion All in all, audiophiles will presumably want SACD's, or CD's MINIMUM - only then would I worry about such issues.

Just a thought - it may save you time on one mp3 file; if you have many, then USB may be quicker overall.

Long live the music (in MD)!

mdmad.

[sfbp]

Well I thought that I had succeded as it uploaded fine onto a partially used MD. I did one transfer that was supposed to be an unmodifed MP3 and then one converted to SP.

I'm not sure you can in fact transfer mp3 on to anything except a hiMD formatted disk. Logical since the ATRAC3 format is somewhat tied to the medium, whereas MP3 format stays unchanged, and the Hi-MD is "just" files (with the usual Sony paranoic encryption, wrapping, and modification)

I used the load RH1 (which I think I will buy after all as it seems versatile) however, when I play back the recording I find that both the MP3 and SP versions play in my JE510 track, the MP3 version plays a silence. Something is wrong...

Guessing you converted the MP3 version to LP2 without realising it. There's another dialog specifying what to do with files that don't transfer, whether to refuse, convert automatically (what I am thinking), or ask the user.

So I try the disk on my NH600 and the MP3 track plays as LP2, meaning that either my computer or the RH1 is changing the MP3 to ATRAC even though I did not tell it to.

Confirmed, then. The portable(s) will not change the tracks once they arrive. The Transcoding only occurs in SS, and will always say "Converting" when it does it, prior to "Transferring"

I listened to the track and I must say that the 'false' MP3 and the SP version sounds a bit metallic, so I have been put off spending much more on this music buying method.

Quite so.

[Soundbox]

Thanks Stephen - that sounds exactly right then (that I cannot directly put an MP3 onto a plain MD) - thanks for the guidance.

I listened again to the downloaded track this morning and with a small treble boost it sounds better, but still not as good as I am used to from MD in the past.

Ian

[A440]

Buried under Tools/Options/Transfer/Hi-MD/Transfer Settings/Advanced in SonicStage you have a choice of Specified Bit Rate. Otherwise it will use LP2, and LP2 conversion of an already lossy mp3 is just pathetic. 256 kbps is Hi-SP for your Hi-MD units (NH600 and RH1)--but won't play on your older units.

As Stephen said without elaborating, SP transferred via SonicStage is not SP. It's actually LP2 pumped up to look like SP so older, SP-only units can play it. Hence its disappointing sound.

Unless you are going to do a lot of recording, and even in that case, I don't recommend getting the RH1 at this late date just to use as a player for mp3s. You can get three or four high-quality, high-capacity mp3 players (like the Sansa Fuze or whatever Sony's latest and greatest is) for the same price. The Fuze will play FLAC if you want to convert your CDs losslessly.

And for a recorder, the Sony PCM-M10 is the final nail in the minidisc coffin. I was a longtime MD user until I got the PCM-M10. Haven't used MD since.

The only reason to own an RH1 nowadays is to be able to upload MDs that were recorded on your older units.

[Soundbox]

A440, thanks for that.

Well, I have been borrowing the RH1 from a colleague (with the idea of trying it out, and if I like it, to purchace it). In the old days of MD everything was so simple - stereo or mono - take your pick. Now there are transfer problems, different and conflicting compression rates, SonicStage and its false SP.

I am in two minds about getting the RH1 - part of me says that it is a great machine and the pinnacle of MD technology and part of me says that it is all too late.

Concerning the MP3 files, would an MP3 played on the RH1 sound better than one played on an I-Pod or Sony MP3 machine?

Ian