Am I a Philistine?

[md user]

Ah! I admit it, i've just bought, err a ... A DAP!

Am i in trouble for mentioning this on this forum?

Anybody else using err, em?!

Your comments (for fun) appreciated...

[Arr-Nine-Hundred]

*grabs pitchfork* You... bought a DAP? Get 'im boys!

Just kidding.

Are you likely to be turned? I'd say let your ears be the judge and see how convenient the management of music is comapred to the MD. Some years back I had an iRiver H10 and the iRiver music manager software was mediocre. To be honest though, you might find that the DAP is suited to certain applications like podcasts or a other high-turnaround material. Thats what I do, I have a Sony B135 2GB DAP that I use exclusively for podcasts. Your iRiver T30 looks like it's in the same class. The Sony was ~£20 so it's not either-or anymore with DAP versus MD. One can reasonably own both.

Yes I own a DAP, please put that pitchfork away. :-)

After selling off my MD gear a few years ago, I went through an iRiver H10, Sandisk Sansa and iPod Nano 2nd Gen. The iPod was by far the best of those and I thought it sounded OK. Then one day I listened to an old MD player that I had in the cupboard for a nostalgia reasons, the sound quality of that blew everything away, the music sounded more alive and vibrant. Thats why I went back to MD. I don't really lament the loss of being able to transfer music. Less is more sometimes and I now like creating compilations. They mean more because one has to put more work into creating them.

I'd be curious to hear your impressions of music on the iRiver versus your MD.

[Tom in RI]

Guilty as charged, I recently (last week) picked an 80 gig Zune. Much easier to get music onto it, although I haven't done anything other than rip cd's to 256K mp3 using the Zune software. Zunes come with pretty much no user manual but it has been pretty straight forward so far. I have just about 12 gigs or 1300 songs from 140 cd's loaded so far. I have not listened to the same piece of music consecutively with any MD vs. the Zune but I don't think I need to, the Zune seems not quite as satisfying soundwise, but not so much as to negate the ability to have so much music in the palm of my hand.

I am 53 years old so my hearing is not at all what it was as a teenager. I can be happy with LP2 on the non HiMD units (obviously excluding the Mz-R70). I find it a little frustrating that the NH600D can't play mp3 which must be transcoded via Sonic Stage. I am sure I will continue to use my MD's but right now I am busy with the "new" toy. (One of the reasons I got the Zune 80 was it was cheap since its a discontinued model).

[KJ_Palmer]

I've had quite a few MP3 players, too many to mention really, but including Creatives, Cowon D9, NexBlack, and my current. favourite my TrekStor xtension. Never been tempted by an iPod, Zune or one of the newer Sony DAPs, though Been pretty happy with the sound of all of them to be honest, no complaints really. I'm still sticking with my MD's though. Mainly because I have over 300 MD compilations that I can't bear to part with, plus a lot of portable and home gear. But I can't see why it has to be one or the other. You can have both..

[Azureal]

Back in 2005, I bought two new Sony HD5 DAPs on Amazon, one for me and one for my wife. Since I had SonicStage loaded up with all of our favorite music it was a breeze to load these units up with great sounding ATRAC3plus music. They have almost the exact same sound as a HiMD unit, it is really good.

I love them but I find myself still drawn to MD and these DAPs mostly sit in a drawer. About a year ago, I picked up a used Sony HD1 on eBay for $35US, The battery was dead and I was able to find a replacement, it now works like new but sadly sits unused as well. I have never tried any non-Sony MP3 DAPs before, other than my iPhone which does not have very good sound.

There is something about handling the MD that brings pleasure to many here. Besides the SQ, it is a physical handling thing, hard to describe. You all understand! DAPs are great, you're no traitor, I just prefer MD and like Barock1 I have so many MDs I can't bear the thought of abandoning them!

[philippeb]

There is something about handling the MD that brings pleasure to many here. Besides the SQ, it is a physical handling thing, hard to describe. You all understand!

Yes, this is it. Touching the MD. Labelling the MD. There is no alternative to physical contact with the medium.

[md user]

*grabs pitchfork* You... bought a DAP? Get 'im boys!

.... I had an iRiver H10 and the iRiver music manager software was mediocre. To be honest though, you might find that the DAP is suited to certain applications like podcasts or a other high-turnaround material.

an old MD player that I had in the cupboard for a nostalgia reasons, the sound quality of that blew everything away, the music sounded more alive and vibrant. Thats why I went back to MD.

I'd be curious to hear your impressions of music on the iRiver versus your MD.

I'm a run'in ...

However, wait! I don't think that I'm 'seduced' yet!

Why? Well, I've just had a test of it, and recorded the same music onto it with my MD player - but I'm still more impressed by the MD in terms of *absolute* quality - JUST!

Yes, it sounds very clean [<0.1% THD is evident], the bass is clean and strong too; there is a 3D effect of some value (although I prefer binaural compensation only) - but SOMETHING *SMALL* IS MISSING! I cannot put my finger on it; you know where it feels kinda 'VIBRANT'. [it's not an EQ issue, methinks, as I've adjusted it always.]

Personally, I cannot understand it; all the SQ numbers [THD, wow-flutter, power output &c.] of the T30 are better, but, if I didn't know which unit was plugged in, I'd still pick the MD. I should point out that it is VERY close, but maybe it's just that I thought that the later T30 would blow away the MD - although this may be pre-biassing of my judgement. (I'll review again once the novelty has worn off; when I've 'optimised' my use of it to give it a fair chance.)

So, put that pitchfork away! (For the moment.)

Guilty as charged,

Yes, I know!

But I can't see why it has to be one or the other. You can have both..

Now I see why ...

The little T30 is a marvel, at 512MB in its day, respectable, but the problem is: it's only the equivalent of 3 or 4 MDs at SP bitrates. So I may end up using it for podcasts at low bitrates, otherwise I'll keep having to shuffle its contents. My MD player isn't redundant yet!

Back in 2005, I bought two new Sony HD5 DAPs on Amazon, one for me and one for my wife. Since I had SonicStage loaded up with all of our favorite music it was a breeze to load these units up with great sounding ATRAC3plus music. They have almost the exact same sound as a HiMD unit, it is really good.

There is something about handling the MD that brings pleasure to many here. Besides the SQ, it is a physical handling thing, hard to describe. You all understand! DAPs are great, you're no traitor, I just prefer MD and like Barock1 I have so many MDs I can't bear the thought of abandoning them!

When you say 'almost', are you saying that you had a similar initial impression?

Yes, this is it. Touching the MD. Labelling the MD. There is no alternative to physical contact with the medium.

Finally, this kinda adds to my term 'VIBRANT' above - even the medium of MD feels more 'REAL/LIFELIKE'. Maybe it's just because I grew up with ROTATING LPs and C90s and things - you know, where it took effort and motion to get recorded music playing! You saw it happening (and was impressed)! The T30 is just too blase - it doesn't even shake a little! (I think I'm starting to understand why intangibles/aesthetics/textures matter - life!)

Overall, though, I am impressed by the T30 - it's the kinda player I should have bought years ago (went for a very cheap model instead thinking that they were all the same - this is what put me off music for a while); it does have quality sound, is small, and convenient; but, it was waiting for the situation now: many gigabytes of storage to prevent shuffling. It is also part of a new generation - kinda like the change from natural materials to man-made ones? (- better performing but lacking 'naturalness'?)

Anybody had the same initial impressions? Anybody found the better way to use them (in terms of EQ, effects &c.). Am I treating it in an out-of-date way and so not maximising its potential?

Advice welcomed!

Keep enjoying the MDs! (He said confidently once more.)

And thank goodness I'm not a traitor! (I thought it was risky mentioning DAPs on a minidisc forum after all the history between the media.)

mdmad.

[Arr-Nine-Hundred]

Keep enjoying the MDs! (He said confidently once more.)

And thank goodness I'm not a traitor! (I thought it was risky mentioning DAPs on a minidisc forum after all the history between the media.)

I'd like to think that this forum will not see rabid "fanboi-ism" that you might find on, for arguments sake, an Xbox 360 forum where someone admits to owning a PS3.

This thread made me evaluate my little Sony DAP again by trying out some music... and it sounds pretty damn good. I then got thinking about buying a more "serious" Sony DAP and was looking the their X-series. These have digital amplifiers and other gubbins to make sweet sound. Yes, they also look freakin cool too, with OLED screen and lovely design. Very tempting but cannot afford it right now :-)

While googling for "best sounding mp3 players" I found a CNET article interesting (sorry, I cannot find it atm), their gist is that technical superiority does not translate into the best listening experience. It's about "what sounds good to YOU".

[Tom in RI]

In a perfect world I would have gotten one of the newer Sony DAP's, but, I wanted more capacity. And, with one child in college and another in a private high school I need to dramatically curtail frivolous expense. Zunes with hard drives are, relatively, cheap and likely to get cheaper.

[bluecrab]

I'd like to think that this forum will not see rabid "fanboi-ism" that you might find on, for arguments sake, an Xbox 360 forum where someone admits to owning a PS3.

Good point. I don't use a DAP myself, and no doubt that while many or most of us here cling with vise-like grips to our minidisc gear, one thing that has always impressed me is the variety of gear many MD users are willing to play with, even if it is not our beloved MD. I keep toying with the idea of getting some kind of Ipod and I think it would be fun, but when it comes down to putting forth the actual money, there always seems to be something else I want more (at those times when I can justify spending at all!).

[sfbp]

Hear hear. Every single time I have considered plonking down what they wanted for an I**d at the time, I've said to myself, no - I can wait until they get cheaper. And they never have. I got into MD for converting LPs and cassettes, and got an RH1 because of its capability to upload, not the portable aspect.

I just spent the day skiing, with my trusty play-only NH700 (it actually has the newest and best sounding hardware of any unit I possess) and an LP4 disk with a pot-pourri of classical music recorded directly to a deck's optical in from the internet. Magic! Even a couple of years ago, I never thought LP4 would be good enough for anything except a dog's breakfast; it all depends on the way the bits get laid down on the disk, and by what recording device, I think.

[bluecrab]

I just spent the day skiing, with my trusty play-only NH700 (it actually has the newest and best sounding hardware of any unit I possess) and an LP4 disk with a pot-pourri of classical music recorded directly to a deck's optical in from the internet. Magic! Even a couple of years ago, I never thought LP4 would be good enough for anything except a dog's breakfast; it all depends on the way the bits get laid down on the disk, and by what recording device, I think.

When the LP4 thread started, I performed a brief test:

Recorded one track CD>MD in LP4 on MXD-D400.

Recorded same track CD>MD in LP2 on MXD-D400.

Started playing both CDs and alternated listening to each (just a matter of switching input selector on amp).

The LP4 was clearly inferior. HOWEVER, that said, I had previously listened to some LP4 stuff that had been put on MD via SS, and this sounded fine. I would never have guessed it to be LP4 if the LP4 light had not come on. So I think you are correct, although I don't know why it is that way. The result of all this, for SS-less me, is that I use LP4 only for some audiobooks or when I have squeeze in a few minutes at the end of some MD that I'm going to overwrite anyway.

[md user]

When the LP4 thread started, I performed a brief test:

Recorded one track CD>MD in LP4 on MXD-D400.

Recorded same track CD>MD in LP2 on MXD-D400.

Started playing both CDs and alternated listening to each (just a matter of switching input selector on amp).

The LP4 was clearly inferior. HOWEVER, that said, I had previously listened to some LP4 stuff that had been put on MD via SS, and this sounded fine. I would never have guessed it to be LP4 if the LP4 light had not come on. So I think you are correct, although I don't know why it is that way. The result of all this, for SS-less me, is that I use LP4 only for some audiobooks or when I have squeeze in a few minutes at the end of some MD that I'm going to overwrite anyway.

I'm intrigued, not having used SS yet, are you saying that SS does a better job of LP4 encoding than a deck or portable? From what i've read, SS does a worse job of SP - a bad omen?

(I have a NetMD sharp, but have avoided loading up SS/openMG &c. - it would mean using Windows again - and I can't bear all that agony ... )

Regards,

mdmad.

[bluecrab]

I'm intrigued, not having used SS yet, are you saying that SS does a better job of LP4 encoding than a deck or portable? From what i've read, SS does a worse job of SP - a bad omen?

(I have a NetMD sharp, but have avoided loading up SS/openMG &c. - it would mean using Windows again - and I can't bear all that agony ... )

Regards,

mdmad.

What happened was that when I bought a used MDX-CA680CX for my car, the seller sent me a bunch of other stuff with it, including some SS-made LP4s. I still have a few of them. To ME, at least, the SS-made LP4s DO sound better than LP4s made on my CD>MD deck, but I do not know why. In fact, although I have tried to figure out what sounds best - THIS MD does...no THAT CD does,,,why does this LP2 sound so nice?...etc etc etc, none of it ever adds up to anything truly conclusive. Just go with what sounds good to you and don't fret over the technical minutiae of it all.

[md user]

What happened was that when I bought a used MDX-CA680CX for my car, the seller sent me a bunch of other stuff with it, including some SS-made LP4s. I still have a few of them. To ME, at least, the SS-made LP4s DO sound better than LP4s made on my CD>MD deck, but I do not know why. In fact, although I have tried to figure out what sounds best - THIS MD does...no THAT CD does,,,why does this LP2 sound so nice?...etc etc etc, none of it ever adds up to anything truly conclusive. Just go with what sounds good to you and don't fret over the technical minutiae of it all.

Quite right. And I've started a new thread on LP4 on exactly this point - to discuss it further.

Regards!

mdmad.

[md user]

Oh no! It gets MUCH worse ...

Guess what I received for my birthday from several members of my family jointly ... (a total surprise).

Give you one guess.

Yes, an ipod!

Will i be turned from md's?

[md user]

Right, after much support ;-) I've managed to come to my fair assessment of md and modern and future (probable..) players.

My view:

MDs were a unique period of development for digital music; and i really appreciate their occurrence in the history of player tech. They could not continue in the face of solid state tech; but the world would, curiously, be a poorer place without them. I now use the iPod (now admitted :-) touch (even to write this) but am still entertained by listening on an md player - a 'touchy/feely' thing? in the evening - like a well-crafted old car for an afternoon drive. And they can still keep up with the 'flow of traffic' to my ears.

Anybody else come to a similar view; or other attitude to mds?

Anyways regards to you all! I'm still lovin mds!

[darrencouch]

I am about in the same boat-I have an iPhone that I use as a laptop replacement/phone/Pandora/Magnatune/game machine etc... but I still use my minidiscs for jogging/biking, in the car, etc. It is still the battery life, ease of use, and good sound. I don't think I'll ever buy another style of music player that does exclusively music (unless its another hi-md unit).