darrencouch Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I read this assertion in another thread and am wondering what the basis for this is-that mp3 playback on mp3 capable HiMD units is hobbled or poorer than an equivalent (?) player. I am unable to use SS at the moment and have been doing all transfer of music using Hi-MD transfer on my mac. Most of my digitized music is in FLAC or mp3 format. What FLAC I have I usually convert to MP3 for easy transfer. If there was an easy linux or mac solution for ripping FLAC to ATRAC I'd be all over it, but as it is mp3 is all i got. Any truth to it? I would assume ATRAC sounds better on minidisc as I think it sounds better in general. I guess what I'm asking roundabout is did Sony cripple mp3 playback for the express reason of pushing ATRAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I don't think so. My suspicion is they only figured out the smarts of compensating for MP3's obvious deficiencies after they shipped their first MD units that had MP3 support. Several technologies get a mention: for example in their more recent stuff, BBE (head units) and DSEE (Sonic Stage) coming to mind. BBE was licensed, which seems to me to suggest they wanted to enhance their offerings to allay criticisms of MP3 support. Judging from the number of models, their head units have a pretty good share of the market. If you look at the dates that people came up with MP3 addons (nothing to do with Sony) I bet many of the popular ones postdate these first MD units with MP3 support. I don't like conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Wiz, perhaps I could I ask you this - when did BBE get added to Sony's other (non-MD) products? As an MD-lover I sure wouldn't (at the time) have wanted Sony to spend effort on some half-baked enhancement to a technology I didn't use. We've already heard from Avrin how MP3 playback forced the removal of some other features from 2nd generation Hi-MD's. Isn't it more reasonable to suppose that they operated within technological constraints (limited memory, time to write firmware, engineering team less familiar with MP3), than to suppose malfeasance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJay Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The answer is simple. Sony wanted to push Atrac hence the reason why they crippled or avoided MP3 entirely for so long on their players. Now when Atrac is gone and MP3 plus other formats are here to stay Sony cripple their players so that gapless isn't supported (except for WAV files). This is the pattern that is being followed and that will be followed for as long as the Sony line is in production. The one big factor in all of this is I believe the Japanese mindset of keeping a continuity and a strong base strategy moving forward, never changing or hesitating for a moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 The answer is simple. Sony wanted to push Atrac hence the reason why they crippled or avoided MP3 entirely for so long on their players. Now when Atrac is gone and MP3 plus other formats are here to stay Sony cripple their players so that gapless isn't supported (except for WAV files). This is the pattern that is being followed and that will be followed for as long as the Sony line is in production. The one big factor in all of this is I believe the Japanese mindset of keeping a continuity and a strong base strategy moving forward, never changing or hesitating for a moment. Could you produce some facts to support your assertions? I would prefer it if we could avoid attributing negative attitudes or mindset - it doesn't IMHO help our ability to have a factual discussion. How would you explain Sony's almost wholesale adoption of MP3 and related technologies recently? Bought a TV from them lately? USB MP3 playback included. Thanks Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philippeb Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 As an MD-lover I sure wouldn't (at the time) have wanted Sony to spend effort on some half-baked enhancement to a technology I didn't use. We've already heard from Avrin how MP3 playback forced the removal of some other features from 2nd generation Hi-MD's. Dropping MONO, that the RH1 prototype and earlier machines could do, to make room for whatever MP3 related feature in the final consumer version of the RH1, was a very bad move, IMHO. I have absolutely no use for MP3, and I badly miss MONO (in the RH1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrencouch Posted September 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Interesting! Well, from 120k on up (the only mp3 I have) it sounds equal to hiSP on my 910 (All hiSP I do is ripped from CD to the player via MD simple burner). So, from a completely anecdotal stance I can tell little difference. I was looking for what sfbp is asking for as well-some spec sheet or somesuch detailing a problem with mp3 playback in md walkmans capable of mp3 playback, intentful or otherwise. At this stage of the game its a somewhat moot point, but it may sway me one way or the other to jump hoops to get my digi collection into ATRAC format for my MD players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmp64 Posted September 30, 2010 Report Share Posted September 30, 2010 Wiz, perhaps I could I ask you this - when did BBE get added to Sony's other (non-MD) products? As an MD-lover I sure wouldn't (at the time) have wanted Sony to spend effort on some half-baked enhancement to a technology I didn't use. We've already heard from Avrin how MP3 playback forced the removal of some other features from 2nd generation Hi-MD's. Isn't it more reasonable to suppose that they operated within technological constraints (limited memory, time to write firmware, engineering team less familiar with MP3), than to suppose malfeasance? Yes, I agree with you. The kind of thing people are suggesting only happens in movies. And BTW - after many many years of listening to all manner of DAPs, including large numbers of Sony units, I don't believe that ATRAC was a superior CODEC to MP3 LAME. I think Sony produced, and produces, superior hardware for audio playback. Get one of the CD Walkman that plays ATRAC and MP3 and do some listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 You think LAME beats ATRAC at a given bit rate? Changing the subject ever so slightly I just made an Atrac CD (first in a while) and as usual it sounds magnificent. One of the things I want to do is persuade the geek crowd that got Linux-Minidisc working to provide playback support for Atrac CD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmp64 Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 You think LAME beats ATRAC at a given bit rate? Changing the subject ever so slightly I just made an Atrac CD (first in a while) and as usual it sounds magnificent. One of the things I want to do is persuade the geek crowd that got Linux-Minidisc working to provide playback support for Atrac CD's. Not necessarily beats it, but is equivalent, if both are played on some type of Sony equipment. Really, I'm not sure how to evaluate codecs separate from the equipment on which they are played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrencouch Posted October 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 as an aside, when did you come out of retirement Stephen? No longer a retired mod I see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfbp Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 <blush> see the announcements. No big deal. Perhaps a bigger deal is the upgrade of the forum which I like very much. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmp64 Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 You think LAME beats ATRAC at a given bit rate? Changing the subject ever so slightly I just made an Atrac CD (first in a while) and as usual it sounds magnificent. One of the things I want to do is persuade the geek crowd that got Linux-Minidisc working to provide playback support for Atrac CD's. My car unit plays ATRAC CDs (and MP3 and AAC as well) - and one thing I was really surprised by when I got it years ago is that it was not gapless. However, some of the ATRAC CD Walkman I have DO play ATRAC CDs gapless (it is an option). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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