Ripping CDs directly to ATRAC3 105 and 66kbps in SS40

[Avrin]

Reposting my message from MDCF. It may be more useful for people here, since many ATRAC devices allow 105 and 66 kbps transfers:

"At last my HEX-code staring has led to some practical results. Turns out SS40 does support directly ripping CDs into ATRAC3 @ 105 and 66 kpbs. It does not provide any controls to select these modes, so you have to select them via the registry. Do not worry - these registry modifications are reversible, and will be reset as soon as you select any other bitrate in SS40. So, here goes:

1. Close SonicStage.

2a. For 105kbps modify the registry in the following way (or use the 105.reg file from the attached archive):

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Corporation\SonicStage\CDRipper]

"Bitrate_00090010"=dword:00019a28

"FileType"=dword:00090010

2b. For 66 kbps modify the registry in the following way (or use the 66.reg file from the attached archive):

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Sony Corporation\SonicStage\CDRipper]

"Bitrate_00090010"=dword:000101d0

"FileType"=dword:00090010

3. Start SonicStage. Do not change any settings, but proceed directly to ripping CDs (you will see the selected bitrate in the CD-ripping window). These settings will be kept until you change them in SonicStage by pressing the "Briefcase".

Both these bitrates can then be transferred to a Hi-MD without any problems. The unit shows them as "ATRAC3 105k" and "ATRAC3 66k" respectively, and plays them just fine. BTW, ATRAC3 files do not seem to have any "padding" bits when recorded in Hi-MD mode.

For NetMD these bitrates are, unfortunately, almost useless. If you attempt to tranfer them, the stupid program converts 105kbps to 132kbps LP2, adding copy protection, and converts 66kbps to 66 kbps (!) LP4, also adding copy protection (same as when trying to transfer a non-protected 132kbps file). I don't know whether there is any actual re-encoding taking place in the latter case. When recording to a NetMD, the tracks are also "padded" with additional bits, as usual.

Now for some analysis. Both these bitrates have a cut-off frequency of about 13.8 kHz. This means that ATRAC3@66kbps may sound better for some material than ATRAC3plus@64k with its 15.5 kHz cut-off frequency, since there is less information to encode, which leads to less artifacts.

Most probably these modifications will also work in SS34, although I haven't tested them with that version.

Enjoy!"

EDIT: Have just read in the Manual for the flash NW-E002/003/005 series: "CD recording cannot be done using SonicStage software in ATRAC3 at 66/105 kpbs." This is outrageous!

Edited June 12, 2006 by Avrin

[sonyslave]

Hi Avrin,

you have discovered bitrates that were intended for the NetMD. 66kbps equates to LP4 in the old NetMD terminology, and 105kbps was an alternative to LP2 or 132kbps. Although I never understood why it was included in the OpenMG software (the precuser to SonicStage), it did save some space when storing songs on your hard drive, perhaps nessessary in the days before we had multi-gigabite affordable hard drives.

Anyway, with the demise of the NetMD and the new ATRAC+ bitrates, Sony obviously considered these bitrates obsolete and have dropped them. It also streamlines SonicStage and I have no doubt makes it easier for new users. Disabling them was no doubt easier than rewritting the whole progam!

As an aside, I am surprised you find 66kbps acceptable for some kinds of music and better than the newer 64kbps of ATRAC+. From my own experience and that of many others the only use for this bitrate was for recording interviews or listening to audiobooks.

Anway congratulations for finding a way of re-enabling these bitrates, but I think I will stay with ATRAC+ for my DAPs and HiMDs!

Yours David

[kaledi]

I wonder if you can find some way to make HiMD players and indeed pre 1000/3000 HDD players accept bit rates they cannot currently accept? Some reckon that a firmware update would be needed, but I reckon that the decoding chip would have no problem (this would of course explain why 352 and 192KPS suddenly became available)

[pata2001]

Excellent findings. Another project would be unlocking the rest of Atrac3+ bitrates for AtracCD.

[Avrin]

For Hi-MD - I looked through the corresponding program libraries, and found no traces of 96, 128, 160 or 320 routines in SS40, although SS30 already contained routines for 192 and 352, which were not enabled.

The libraries to look at are:

HiMDPACAPI.dll - this one contains the list of bitrates available in SS for transfer to HiMD, and also checks whether a particular bitrate can be transfered. It can be hacked so that new bitrates appear in the list (replacing some previous ones, since the list length is limited), and so that it allows transferring them, but then we come to...

HiMD.dll, which controls the transfer process. It does not contain routines for 96, 128, 160, or 320, so it is not able to transfer these bitrates. Hacking this library to use the routines it contains to transfer different bitrates (such as using the 256 routine to transfer 128) leads to nothing: the files do transfer, but the unit shows them as ATRAC3plus 32k, and can not play them.

For ATRAC3 CD - I don't have such a device (and have no plans of buying one), so I can not test anything here. But since burning to ATRAC3 CDs does not require the use of a driver to "talk" to the device (everything is done directly in SonicStage), I think it is possible to burn the "prohibited" bitrates, at least by hacking the program itself or its database. Whether an ATRAC3 CD player will actually play them - remains to be seen, though I am almost sure it will.

In case anybody wants to take such projects further, I decided to disclose bitrate HEX-codes used in SS:

ATRAC3plus:

00 7D 00 00 - 32 kbps

80 BB 00 00 - 48 kbps

00 FA 00 00 - 64 kbps

00 77 01 00 - 96 kbps

00 F4 01 00 - 128 kbps

00 71 02 00 - 160 kbps

00 EE 02 00 - 192 kbps

00 E8 03 00 - 256 kbps

00 E2 04 00 - 320 kbps

00 5F 05 00 - 352 kbps

ATRAC3:

D0 01 01 00 - 66 kbps

28 9A 01 00 - 105 kbps

A0 03 02 00 - 132 kbps

But remember - you'll need to experiment A LOT to find the exact addresses where these codes need to be changed. And the chance for success is not very high. I spent two months on this, and the only result I could obtain is described in the first post here.

[Avrin]

A couple of comments to sonyslave:

1. SonisStage is NOT streamlined in any way. Is contains lots of garbage. Believe me. Though ATRAC3plus 32k routines were really taken out somewhere between SS30 and SS40. Rewriting SonicStage is not an option (too much legacy garbage). The only viable option, as I see it, is to create a new simpler and leaner program for all ATRAC devices. The one that does not include "not quite completely disabled" DRM and other crap. AND has all bitrates enabled.

2. ATRAC3 66k may sound better than ATRAC3plus 64k for such material as audio books or drama recorded from analog tapes. The reason here is that it does not have to encode noise above 13.8 kHz, which leaves some bits for useful information. It may also sound better for some older 78 rpm records (again - less noise to be encoded).

Edited June 13, 2006 by Avrin

[sonyslave]

Hi Arvin,

when I said 'streamline SS' I did not mean the program its self, rather the 'user interface'. Cutting out un-needed (?) bit rates, makes it easier for new/inexperienced users. It should also be noted that the current ATRAC+ bitrates conform to those of the other main rival encoders, mp3, WMA ect.

On your second point I didn't realise you were talking about the source material of the music rather than musical types! My apologies.

David

[Avrin]

It should probably also be noted that some of the most useful bitrates, such as 128 and 160 kbps, which sound much better than same bitrates of rival encoders, are not available for such media as Hi-MD and CD for no obvious reason.

I am personally not going to use 66 or 105 kbps ATRAC3. My current favourite is 192 kbps for almost anything (an excellent combination of quality and size), and 48 kbps for my Rachmaninov collection, which was originally recorded on 78 rpm (or something even worse) some 85 years ago, and fits perfectly on a single 80-minute MD at this bitrate.

Tried ATRAC3 @ 132kbps a couple of weeks ago. Sounds dead. While ATRAC3plus @128kbps sounds much better, when played by my computer through my Hi-Fi system. Could have been useful, if only...

Edited June 13, 2006 by Avrin

[Guest Stuge]

Tried ATRAC3 @ 132kbps a couple of weeks ago. Sounds dead. While ATRAC3plus @128kbps sounds much better, when played by my computer through my Hi-Fi system. Could have been useful, if only...

This is b`coz Atrac 3 Plus is technically better than Atrac 3 .

[MDane]

It should probably also be noted that some of the most useful bitrates, such as 128 and 160 kbps, which sound much better than same bitrates of rival encoders, are not available for such media as Hi-MD and CD for no obvious reason.

I am personally not going to use 66 or 105 kbps ATRAC3. My current favourite is 192 kbps for almost anything (an excellent combination of quality and size), and 48 kbps for my Rachmaninov collection, which was originally recorded on 78 rpm (or something even worse) some 85 years ago, and fits perfectly on a single 80-minute MD at this bitrate.

Tried ATRAC3 @ 132kbps a couple of weeks ago. Sounds dead. While ATRAC3plus @128kbps sounds much better, when played by my computer through my Hi-Fi system. Could have been useful, if only...

FWIW, I jumped on the LP2/4 (132/66) bandwagon when it first came out, as I was a hardcore SP MD user at the time. Sadly after trying both new rates, I decided both were pretty much junk. I too found 132 to sound really flat, and 66 was pure mud. The units I had bought were a PC3, and a Net MD which I pretty much put back in the box, even felt guilty for buying it, and I sold the PC3.

However, a couple years ago, a friend of mine was getting out of the MD world, and sold me all of his equipment cheap: another (identical) Net MD, a KMD-44, and a MDS-JE440. He told me he had always used LP4 for everything. I thought he was nutz!!!

I continued to use the newly aquired equipment in SP mode for a couple years. Then a few months ago, I finally aquired a M200, so I needed one bitrtate that would work in my portable (E105), as well as be something I could upload, download, etc. freely between all of my equipment without conversions...something everything would play.

So I gave LP2 another try. To my surprise when using the JE440 to make recordings, music sounded almost spot-on with SP, even back to back wearing mid grade quality studio headphones. After some research, I found that (home) decks actually encode much better from various reviews and techno-speak I read...which would explain it.

So after this I thought, well, let's see how good ol' LP4 sounds via the same home deck. Well, I used it for talk radio, and it did great...no obvious artifacts at all...and I do get them when using a Net MD to record the same thing. I have not done a LP4 music evaluation, but might soon (but since memory is so cheap, what would be the point). For that matter, the only reason I use 66 for talk is because of the sheer length of radio shows like C2C...so I can put a full 5 hour show on a standard MD...or put several shows on my E105.

So all in all, don't rule out LP2/LP4 totally. Sure, I would love to have the flexibility of any bitrate working with everything...but the LP Atrac3 rates are OK...not great, but OK...and play in every last thing I have...including flash portable, MD car deck, etc.