Recording in SP from another compressed source

[culp4684]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever tried this. I'm not one that usually likes to download, preferring the actual CD. But I have quite a few MP3's that I have downloaded through Amazon and all were loaded into iTunes.

I know I have read several times that you shouldn't take a compressed file and convert (or record) it to another compressed file. But I tried burning a copy of Stacey Kent's Breakfast on the Morning Tram using iTunes and then recording it optically to SP on my MDS-JA20Es.

You know what? The results were quite good!

[Sony_Fan]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever tried this. I'm not one that usually likes to download, preferring the actual CD. But I have quite a few MP3's that I have downloaded through Amazon and all were loaded into iTunes.

I know I have read several times that you shouldn't take a compressed file and convert (or record) it to another compressed file. But I tried burning a copy of Stacey Kent's Breakfast on the Morning Tram using iTunes and then recording it optically to SP on my MDS-JA20Es.

You know what? The results were quite good!

Yes, I've done it, but through the analog output from my PC to line input to the MD recorder. And it did sound pretty good! But still, it is a more compressed file and there is sound quality loss. I think it would be best if you burn those MP3s to an audio CD and then play that audio CD using optical output into your Hi-MD recorder and record in PCM (1.4mbps).

[culp4684]

Yes, I've done it, but through the analog output from my PC to line input to the MD recorder. And it did sound pretty good! But still, it is a more compressed file and there is sound quality loss. I think it would be best if you burn those MP3s to an audio CD and then play that audio CD using optical output into your Hi-MD recorder and record in PCM (1.4mbps).

I don't think that would be very practical. Unless I use a 1 GB disc, I would need at least two regular discs to complete the album in PCM mode.

[Azureal]

I frequently trans-code from downloaded MP3 files which range from 192 - 256 Kbps into ATRAC3 LP2 132Kbps or even ATRAC3plus 256 Kbps on HiMD. They typically sound really good, I use SonicStage to convert and download to MD.

I have not tried to record in real-time to SP in the way you describe but it would not surprise me to find that it did indeed sound pretty good.

And, sorry Sony_Fan, I have to agree with culp4684, talk about jumping through hoops!

[culp4684]

I frequently trans-code from downloaded MP3 files which range from 192 - 256 Kbps into ATRAC3 LP2 132Kbps or even ATRAC3plus 256 Kbps on HiMD. They typically sound really good, I use SonicStage to convert and download to MD.

I have not tried to record in real-time to SP in the way you describe but it would not surprise me to find that it did indeed sound pretty good.

And, sorry Sony_Fan, I have to agree with culp4684, talk about jumping through hoops!

I'll have to try the LP2. I wonder if the lower rate would be better at hiding any flaws...or make it worse? The original downloaded MP3 is usually between 192-224 kbps VBR.

[MDietrich]

I know I have read several times that you shouldn't take a compressed file and convert (or record) it to another compressed file. But I tried burning a copy of Stacey Kent's Breakfast on the Morning Tram using iTunes and then recording it optically to SP on my MDS-JA20Es.

You know what? The results were quite good!

You´re effectively transcoding from one lossy format to another. The first encoding produces several artifacts hidden by the louder music, that´s how lossy codecs (all of them) work. The ATRAC IC (just another codec from a data standpoint) treats these flaws hidden by music as one thing only: music, as it cannot differentiate between errors and actual musical information. Therefore you add one error (now produced by ATRAC) on top of the other.

That you´re not hearing artifacts is a lucky coincidence.

I think it would be best if you burn those MP3s to an audio CD and then play that audio CD using optical output into your Hi-MD recorder and record in PCM (1.4mbps).

Erm... not the best idea. Most PCs nowadays have an optical output. Using that and a software player able to play MP3, AAC, whatever, you can do a direct copy of those MP3s to HiMD PCM.

I frequently trans-code from downloaded MP3 files which range from 192 - 256 Kbps into ATRAC3 LP2 132Kbps or even ATRAC3plus 256 Kbps on HiMD. They typically sound really good, I use SonicStage to convert and download to MD.

I wouldn´t use ATRAC3 LP2 at all. I can hear more or less severe compression artifacts all the time when encoding lossless music with that codec. Consider that no one has worked on improving ATRAC3 encoding for 15 years. And regarding how MP3 has been improved during those years and how very far lossy codecs in general have progressed, the simple truth is that ATRAC3 is ancient and belongs in a museum. It was decent all those years ago, today it´s just oldfashioned crap. Sorry to be this blunt, but that´s how it is.

Exception: ATRAC3plus. Much younger codec incorporating some of AAC's compression mechanisms. I cannot distinguish a 352 kBit/s ATRAC3plus encode from the lossless original it was derived from. Even 256 kBit/s holds up well.

Back to the OPs question: in general a transcoding from MP3 to ATRAC SP is audible. Listen to muffled transients (handclapping, hihats) and an added nervousness that wasn´t there before. In some cases quantization noise will creep into the sound (short 'hisses' on treble-heavy material).

To get the most out of your transcode, iTunes isn´t exactly the best available to you; I recommend foobar2000 - it´s ugly but very good. That software puts out the full 32 bit floating point MP3 is capable off (iTunes can do that too - but the setup is dodgy). Via correctly configured optical out (24 bit / 44.1 kHz setting in MS Windows configuration panel) your MDS-JA20 won´t have any problems handling this bit depth as transported by foobar; it can handle floating point as well.

[Sony_Fan]

I don't think that would be very practical. Unless I use a 1 GB disc, I would need at least two regular discs to complete the album in PCM mode.

Then you can do the conversions and lose sound quality or you can just invest in a dedicated sony mp3 player.

[Another MD fanatic]

I've done it and been pretty pleased with the results. I have one of these little boxes that plugs into a USB port and gives an optical output. Recorded in SP mode I can't say I've had any problems or heard any audible artifacts. Must admit I've never tried it with LP2 mode.

As I'm one of those people that likes to play around and experiment with things (just for the hell of it sometimes) I've also tried it the other way round, an SP mode MD recorded to my PC then converted to MP3. I was far less impressed with the results this gave even though I converted at 320kbit/sec. Although there still weren't any nasty unwanted noises the overall sound was dull and flat compared to the original MD, as though it had lost it's sparkle. There was definitely some low level, high frequency detail missing.

So from my own tests (and in my opinion) MP3 to MD = OK, MD to MP3 = not OK.

[Arr-Nine-Hundred]

I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever tried this. I'm not one that usually likes to download, preferring the actual CD. But I have quite a few MP3's that I have downloaded through Amazon and all were loaded into iTunes.

I know I have read several times that you shouldn't take a compressed file and convert (or record) it to another compressed file. But I tried burning a copy of Stacey Kent's Breakfast on the Morning Tram using iTunes and then recording it optically to SP on my MDS-JA20Es.

You know what? The results were quite good!

Yep, I do that all the time. I use LP2 more though when I want two "albums worth" or more on a single MD.

I use this to record:

People don't realize how good it sounds. The only fiddly bit is the track marks.

I play these back on a small pair of USB powered speakers connected to my MD portable so my listening isn't critical - but even when played on my Sennheiser headphones it sounds very good.

In fact It sounds much better through the MD this way then native mp3 playback via my "cheap & cheerful" Sansa Clip mp3 player. I put this down to a better amplifier in the MD.

[mmp64]

Yep, I do that all the time. I use LP2 more though when I want two "albums worth" or more on a single MD.

I use this to record:

People don't realize how good it sounds. The only fiddly bit is the track marks.

I play these back on a small pair of USB powered speakers connected to my MD portable so my listening isn't critical - but even when played on my Sennheiser headphones it sounds very good.

In fact It sounds much better through the MD this way then native mp3 playback via my "cheap & cheerful" Sansa Clip mp3 player. I put this down to a better amplifier in the MD.

The reason that that it "sounds good" when you transpose MP3 to ATRAC is because of the Sony hardware. IMHO. If you listen to an MP3 file on a Sony device vs. an iPod or similar, you most likely will discover that the MP3 sounds better on the Sony device, even though it is the same file.

[culp4684]

I've done this on about a dozen or so albums now and I can tell you if there is a difference, it sure as hell doesn't matter much. Maybe it is the fact that I'm using an ES deck to record. Don't know for sure.

I think sometimes we worry too much about the tech aspects and forget about listening to the music...