AAL at various bitrates

[juli_]

Hi, I 'googled' everything I could about this and searched these forums but still can't find an answer. I am currently re-ripping a lot of CDs in AAL to my 808 unit. What I don't understand is why there are differing bitrates for Atrac Advanced Lossless. . . surely the lower the bitrate, the higher the compression, but doesn't 'lossless' mean 'uncompressed'? I've chosen the highest setting but am confused as to why lower bitrates are available in the first place. Can anyone explain this? Does a 256kbps AAL file sound the same as a 256kbps atrac3plus file, and if not, why not? It would be useful to know as I could save room on my player.

30 minutes later. . . I just found out the answer when I listened to the same file in 256kbps AAL and 352kbps atrac3plus. The AAL sounded 'bigger' with a bigger soundstage, it was enough of a difference to sacrifice some storage space anyway

Edited July 31, 2007 by juli

[navsimpson]

Hi, I 'googled' everything I could about this and searched these forums but still can't find an answer. I am currently re-ripping a lot of CDs in AAL to my 808 unit. What I don't understand is why there are differing bitrates for Atrac Advanced Lossless. . . surely the lower the bitrate, the higher the compression, but doesn't 'lossless' mean 'uncompressed'? I've chosen the highest setting but am confused as to why lower bitrates are available in the first place. Can anyone explain this? Does a 256kbps AAL file sound the same as a 256kbps atrac3plus file, and if not, why not? It would be useful to know as I could save room on my player.

30 minutes later. . . I just found out the answer when I listened to the same file in 256kbps AAL and 352kbps atrac3plus. The AAL sounded 'bigger' with a bigger soundstage, it was enough of a difference to sacrifice some storage space anyway

This is around the forums, but - AAL stores both a lossless and lossy copy of the file so as to maintain compatibility with devices that don't support AAL (i.e. it'll transfer the lossy file). The bitrate refers to the bitrate of the lossy part. AAL will sound better than ATRAC3plus as it should be exactly the same as the source.

-Nav

[juli_]

This is around the forums, but - AAL stores both a lossless and lossy copy of the file so as to maintain compatibility with devices that don't support AAL (i.e. it'll transfer the lossy file). The bitrate refers to the bitrate of the lossy part. AAL will sound better than ATRAC3plus as it should be exactly the same as the source.

-Nav

OK thanks. That explains why the same bitrate in AAL sounds better. I did read something about it in the forums but I can never seem to find the same page again to refer to later. One query is that if it transfers the lossy part to the player, does this mean it's not playing in AAL after all? File properties show it's in AAL and it does sound better, or is that my imagination??

[navsimpson]

If you're player supports AAL(s7, a800 series), then it transfers in AAL, so yours is playing in AAL.

-Nav

[Zizone_]

The various bit-rates are there so that should you want to transfer lossy part, it will do so without converting lossless into lossy which saves a lot of time; where other lossless formats converts lossless into lossy.

ATRAC Advanced Lossless is supported by NW-S700 and NW-A800 series. Here you may choose your ATRAC Advanced Lossless to be transferred as Lossless or Lossy. If you choose to transfer "as is" then the ATRAC Advanced Lossless will be transferred as Lossless and you can check this play-back by viewing property while playing songs in your Walkman (e.g. NW-S700 series will show you as ATRAC-Lossless under property). However if you choose to transfer lossy one, then set transfer mode to your pre-specified bit-rate (one you chose when you transferred from CD to ATRAC Advanced Lossless, e.g. 352kpbs) then it will transfer lossy portion without converting, thus much faster compared to other lossless formats.

ATRAC Advanced Lossless contains additional music data that would have been lost otherwise from ATRAC3plus. In other words, you can think ATRAC Advanced Lossless contains both ATRAC3plus and additional data so that it will not lose any data, if at all, from CD.

This is reason why you can set various bit-rates when you import from CD, and the option to transfer Lossless or lossy without coverting from Lossless to lossy is the main advantage of ATRAC Advanced Lossless compared to other competing lossless formats.

Note:

As of 2007/8/1 (yyyy/m/d), ATRAC Lossless play-back is supported by NW-S700/600 and NW-A800 series only.

Thus, all other Walkmans cannot play ATRAC Lossless even you set transfer mode "as is" and only the lossy part will be transferred.

Summary:

e.g.

WALKMAN that supports ATRAC Advanced Lossless playback:

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)--> transfer mode: "As is"--> (NW-S700/NW-A800 series) ATRAC-Lossless.

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)-->transfer mode: ATRAC3plus 352kbps--> (NW-S700/NW-A800 series) ATRAC3plus 352kbps. NO converting time.

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)-->transfer mode: ATRAC3plus 256kbps--> (NW-S700/NW-A800 series) ATRAC3plus 256 kbps. WITH convering time.

WALKMAN that does not support ATRAC Advanced Lossless playback:

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)--> transfer mode: "As is"--> (Walkman with no AAL support) ATRAC3plus 352kbps. NO convering time.

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)--> transfer mode: "ATRAC3plus 352kbps"--> (Walkman with no AAL support) ATRAC3plus 352kbps. NO convering time.

(SS4.3) ATRAC Advanced Lossless (352kbps)--> transfer mode: "ATRAC3plus 256kbps"--> (Walkman with no AAL support) ATRAC3plus 256kbps. WITH convering time.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Zizone

[juli_]

This is reason why you can set various bit-rates when you import from CD, and the option to transfer Lossless or lossy without coverting from Lossless to lossy is the main advantage of ATRAC Advanced Lossless compared to other competing lossless formats.

Thanks Zizone (again!). Now it makes sense