RISKBREAKER Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Hey, i have heard/read that the european version of the md players have only an output power of 2mW, everywhere in the world the md players do have an 5mW output. Is then an european md player not so loud as an us/jap md player? Or do the have some trick, maybe lower the impedance of the headphones, or something like that? Maybe someone own an european md player and an us/jap md player, if one does, maybe you could test it, that would be great. Thanks, cya Mike :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 I did some research in this matter and found out that Sharp have better amps generaly. If that what you mean, I haven't found that same model have different specs between regions. Sharp: DR7 8mW, MT99 10mW, MT877 5mW Sony: NF810 5mW, N707 5mW, R700 5mW Seems like all MDLP Sony's have only 5mW, Sharp's MDLP have gone from 5mW to 10mW then down to 8mW in there newest DR7 model. Again Sharp came out ahead of Sony. If it wasn't for Sony better NetMD feture I can't find any reason for why anyone should buy a Sony when they can get a Sharp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted May 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Hm did you compared or measured the difference between an 10mW and an 5mW output? That would answer my question up to 100% =) And yes Sony models have different output: Euopean versions 2mW, other countries 5mW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudden Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 I just tock the specs from www.minidisc.org and from my manual of N707 and MT99 (I live in Sweden and purchase the N707 localy so I must have the European version for sure). Didn't do any actual test myself. About the N707 ther are a feature called AVLS (Automatic Volume Limiter System) that are on by default. Maybe this is what limit the volume to 2mW and when off pushing it to a hefty ear blowing 5mW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted May 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Hmm i read something in this forum that the 2mW limit is because in france the have an law (maybe to protect their ears :wink: ) for maximum output power and sony needs correct the output to sell it in france, i guess then the european version also got an 2mW output. That could be even found in the md units manuals, download the n10 manual and go to p.80 : 2mW + 2mW (16Ohm) (European models) 5mW + 5mW (16Ohm) (Other models) Strange, but i really want to know if there is really a huge difference in the maximum volumne (clear sound at max. vol., not high vol. with distortions), that would be the question :? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJ_Palmer Posted May 23, 2003 Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Can anyone explain why only Sony units seem to be affected by this "legislation", or are we soon going to see 2mw Sharps, iPods... :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted May 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2003 Maybe sony is the only brand sold in france. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syrou Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Do you really think that Sony has made some hard changes to limit the output power to 2mw? Don't think so, I'm sure that there is some eeprom tweak to change it to 5mw. BTW, as soon as I realized that the output power was ridiculous (and checked it at the user's manual) I made a refund. No distorsions, but not enough volume to hear the music at the noisy streets of Madrid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daijoubu Posted June 8, 2003 Report Share Posted June 8, 2003 Nop, just 2-4 resistors and capacitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted June 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2003 Hey Daijoubu do you have schematics of the n10 ouput stage? Why do you know its only some resisitors/capacitors, simple opamp output stage? CYA mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daijoubu Posted June 12, 2003 Report Share Posted June 12, 2003 It's not listed in the N10 service manual But it is in the N810 service manual Page 44 for N10 (IC302) Page 42 for N810 (IC361 -> C111/211, R106/206, C163/263, R162/262, R161/261) Abbreviation 3CED : Spanish, Swedish, Portuguese and Finnish model 4CED : French, German, Dutch and Italian model Duno :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted June 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 16, 2003 Did not found IC302 only 301, and page 44 is an schematic of the ic that controls the pick-up motor (i guess)! hmm the service manual of the n10 would be cool =) (hmm i ll search for it!) CYA mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daijoubu Posted June 17, 2003 Report Share Posted June 17, 2003 Did not found IC302 only 301, and page 44 is an schematic of the ic that controls the pick-up motor (i guess)! hmm the service manual of the n10 would be cool =) (hmm i ll search for it!) CYA mikehuh, i posted both N810 and N10 serv. manual :shock: IC302 is right under the 301 (N10 service manual) -> 11/12-H/I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Salut à tous! I'm french (as you can read!) and I I just want to say that in france there is not only Sony MD in our shops, you can find obviously others brands such as Sharp or Aiwa. I don't think there is such a legislation about "soundpower" reduction in our country. But like otherelse countries in Europe, MD's like N10 or even N910 from Sony have this reduction. I'm gonna buy the Sharp DR7 (the european version: DR470) on www.europ-photo.com (a french discounter), and I know -for instance- that its line-out is 8 mW...EVEN IN FRANCE! ;- ) The N910 -> 4 mW & the N10 -> 2.5 mW... so I don't think that the french legislation is not the cause or Sony's restrictions on european MD's!! ;- ) Merci de votre attention! Alex PS: Please excuse my not bad english!! ;- ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted June 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 Ooops sorry Daijoubu, dont saw it =) (was a little bit dizzy while i was reading the post ) hmm n10 manual p.42 IC361 headphone amp. i guess it has something to do with the resistors (marked: different values differ. countries) But i dont know if the are part of an filter or an voltage divider to limit the out. power! CYA mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted June 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2003 sry i mean nf810 manual Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 22, 2003 Report Share Posted November 22, 2003 I've been thinking of buying an MZ-N710, but I'm very worried about the mere 1.2mW output to the headphones. After looking at the schematic in the service manual (actually, the MZ-NF810, but they're pretty much the same), there are two resistors (which are changed from 22 ohm to 0 ohm - I presume shorting the resistors will do the trick) and it looks like two capacitors on the output stage need to be changed from 100uF to 220uF. Making this modification would get the headphone output at up to 5mW. Would this be a major/risky task? How difficult is the PCB to get to on these units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RISKBREAKER Posted November 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2003 Yes youre right, shorting the resistors (R106, R206) will do it.(The resistors even marked with "*" so its easy to find them But i wasn't able to find them on the pcb layout (i guess its on p.40 NF810 s.manual). But i would be very carefull when shorting the resistors, i guess the package of the resistor will be very small (smaller than 1206), and if other parts are located next to the resistors you could easily damage them! I own an MZ-N10 (EU version, with lower output power),and i must say its not necessary. You could buy earphones with an higher sensitivity (>103db/mW). Hope that could help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamil Posted November 26, 2003 Report Share Posted November 26, 2003 Hi The sound on the N10 is a big issue it sounds flat having used a MZN707 with 5mw output was disapointed when I tried the N10. The 910 has a limit on the custom equ settings volume will not go above 24 for this model on these settings. Looked at the diagram for the N10 IC302 a AN17020-VB made by Panasonic could not find any data for this IC The mod you are talking about in MZ-NF810 manual uses a diffrent sound output driver to the N10 if anybody knows how to change the gain or has the non Eorupean service manual for the N10 or has reference on IC302 could you please post here Thank You :?: WE DONT WANT IT LOUD BUT IT IS NICE TO KNOW YOU CAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I am from Russia and my English is very bad, but you can go to page 18 of service manual http://www.minidisc.org/manuals/sony/servi...vice_manual.pdf "Adjustment method of VC2 High" (item number: 744) on the pin8 IC302 and pick up voltage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 perhaps an explanation for the fact that the european sony md models have a lower output level is that due to european legislation there might be maximum output rate for these products (guess) european guideluines for these kind of things are really futile but must be respected troughout the whole european market. this seems a suitable explanation also because there are 'european' models of sony products with these different specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syko Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 People here are being mislead. Basic physics tell you that MOST people cannot tell the difference between 2.5mW and 5mW. To be able to tell the difference from 5mW to the next step, it will have to be double the wattage to hear the difference, so 10mW+ will sound slightly louder). So onto the point. No use buying an 8mW+8mW MD walkman while 5mW+5mW will sound exactly the same. The only difference maybe sound quality. People can tell the difference between 2mW and 5mW, which proves my point. I have a 5mW MDiscman and a 10mW MD walkman, and I can BARELY tell the difference in loudness. It had something to do with gain and sound quality but the theory is still true. So don't be fussed about a few mWs. 1.2mW is shocking compared to 5mW but nothing can be helped with that. But if it were between 4mW and 5mW, it's not worth bumping up 1mW if you can't hear the difference. (This reply is something out of left field but oh well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 It's not listed in the N10 service manual But it is in the N810 service manual Page 44 for N10 (IC302) Page 42 for N810 (IC361 -> C111/211, R106/206, C163/263, R162/262, R161/261) Abbreviation 3CED : Spanish, Swedish, Portuguese and Finnish model 4CED : French, German, Dutch and Italian model Duno :?Hi I have A Euro 2mw n10 and I would like to reverse the low output.What exactly is required?I am compitent with a soldering Iron. Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchouli Posted April 22, 2004 Report Share Posted April 22, 2004 Great, let's oversimply every issue to the point where one quick, simple phrase explains the entire world - "mostly harmless" Picking on my own unit, the N707 and IC302. 5mW + 5mW ? bullcrap. Many of Sonys units use a Toshiba TA2131FL amplifier IC and this is a crappy chip. But it's cheap and consumes very little power. Here's the datasheet: http://www.semicon.toshiba.co.jp/docget.js...ctype=datasheet Look at page 17. Prior to distortion city there isn't much room. Looking at both the amp dataheet and the service manual for the N707, you are not going to get more than 600mV from it, anyway. That it's maximum swing. (This is noted in the service manual too, the red "0.6" annotations at the output pins of IC302.) Very worried about 1.2mW output? That's about all there is in a clean signal range; I don't care that it's rated "5mW + 5mW" or not, or that the chip is rated to 8mW. This is why you don't listen to it full blast - it's not that it's too loud, it's that it's too distorted and painful to tolerate. While you might be able to squeeze a bit more push by changing the Rg / Rfb resistors it's delicate surgery and will only help sensitive low-ohm sets. Basically, you must use an external amp. The N707 is terminated with a 4K7 which is standard. The next stage is expected to be some amp with at least a 47K input impedance. It presents a high impedance load which is much easier for the MD to drive than headphones. You want *any* MD to sound it's best? Use an external amp. All the hacking in the world can't create a good clean output without changing that amplifier IC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daijoubu Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 I know this thread is old, but I just wanted to add this: Some peoples even change the DAC on thier sound card, why not change the amp IC? :laugh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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