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If I have a 2nd generation MD (digital copy of another MD), and I output via optical out from my MD deck to my computer in realtime, will SCMS kill the signal?

If no, does the audio get recorded as a .wav or is it ATRAC?

Before I get a D/A converter, I want to make sure this will work...

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SCMS won't get in the way of a d/a convertor.

All that SCMS will do is stop a target deck (if that target is SCMS enabled) from recording via a digital source.

If you take a SCMS source, put the digital output through (any) D to A convertor, you'll just get a regular analogue output.

The digital output is a regular 44.1 (or 32 or 48) kHz 16 bit PCM encoded digital audio signal, with SCMS code in it.

Maybe you need to check out the D/A convertors, and see what they do with the (2?) SCMS bits.

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  • 1 year later...

I have a follow-up to this (sort of).

I've seen Tascam and others offer pro MDLP decks that have the ability to disable SCMS. My question is where this comes into play? I'm thinking I'll get a high-end MDLP deck like a Sony JE980 and then a Tascam or pro-Sony deck to dub MDs, but I'm not sure if it's really necessary as I've already got a JE480. If the SCMS is removed on playback then I'll just need the Tascam and then I can freely dub to my JE480 which has optical input; if it only prevents SCMS from being recorded on the deck with the SCMS disabled, then I'll definitely want two decks as the JE480 lacks optical out (it can then just go into storage as a reserve deck).

Any clarification is very welcome!

<EDIT>

Damn, looks like I was wrong. Whilst Tascam did make an MDLP deck, it didn't have the ability to disable SCMS. Does anyone know of an MDLP deck that did; if so how it worked?

Edited by saaron
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Why would you need it? SCMS mainly inhibits the making of successive copies on consumer equipment. If your source isn't copyrighted [by SCMS flags], you can duplicate it [but not dupe the copies]. If your source -is- copyrighted, you can't duplicate the copy.

In any case, all of this only applies when you're trying to make successive copies using coax or optical digital links. If you're trying to dump MDs to a computer with optical in, SCMS will likely be completely ignored. There are also SCMS strippers available, ostensibly for use by home studio users who combine pro with consumer equipment and occasionally run into difficulty caused by SCMS. [slaps self on wrist for mentioning that]

Why are you so worried about it, anyway? Unless you're deliberately trying to dupe commercial CDs, you shouldn't really run into any problems. So few people actually use SPDIF-only equipment now that SCMS has really become a non-issue for the vast majority out there. If you involve a DAW at any point of your process, for instance, all the SCMS flags will likely be junked [though this does depend on who makes the adapter you use for digital I/O; some companies restrict any copying at all from a computer's output, for instance].

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Why would you need it?  SCMS mainly inhibits the making of successive copies on consumer equipment.  If your source isn't copyrighted [by SCMS flags], you can duplicate it [but not dupe the copies].  If your source -is- copyrighted, you can't duplicate the copy. 

In my readings about SCMS I'm under the impression that anything recorded in analogue mode -- including microphone input -- has SCMS encoding. I use a G750 with a plug-in-power microphone to make family audio recordings (the little one is wise to the video camera, so preventing "natural" recordings of events) and I'd like the ability to make backups of these precious family recordings as I know that despite the hype, optical media is not forever.

I'm not sure if I'd be allowed to do a one-off digital copy of these recordings; I certainly cannot rely on the source being around to make multiple copies, but if I can do that I could at least make multiple digital copies in addition to a realtime computer backup via something like a Xitel optical in/out->USB device.

I'm going to try connecting my G750 to the optical-in on my JE480 to see if I can do a digital dub; if not, I guess I'll have to settle for an analogue copy. It really angers me that I cannot make a personal recording and then do as I please with that without creating some goofy loop via a computer because of the paranoia of media companies. May they all go bust tomorrow!

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You can make as many digital recordings as you like from an analogue MD recording. It's only recordings made via a digital input that SCMS prevents from copying again - ie. second generation digital recordings...

So your personal recordings can be backed up digitally, but those backups couldn't be (well, without an SCMS stripper etc...) - but that won't matter as long as you have the original recording, and equipment to play it back on...

You can't make a digital recording with your G750-JE480 setup because neither of those units has an optical output..

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You can't make a digital recording with your G750-JE480 setup because neither of those units has an optical output..

DOH! You're right. Guess I'll have to wait to get a JE980 and hook that up to the JE480 for 1st gen dubs.

Thanks for the confirmation on what I thought the deal was. At least I don't need to track down an SCMS stripper (I read somewhere they might compromise audio quality...).

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^I've never heard about your last comment about the SCMS strippers compromising sound quality - Can anyone confirm this...?

I dont see why they would compromise sound quality as they just take a digital input, reset the SCMS bit in the data and output the SCMS-free digital signal. I hope its not true anyway, as I have been using an SCMS stripper as a matter of course for all my digital recordings for quite a while now....

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An SCMS stripper, handed a clean audio stream, will put exactly the same audio back out with the SCMS bits reset. It should have no affect on audio quality unless there's a problem with cabling or clocking at some point in the chain, which is unlikely to happen unless you have really shoddy equipment.

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I hope its not true anyway, as I have been using an SCMS stripper as a matter of course for all my digital  recordings for quite a while now....

Anyone know of a source for one of these devices? I've tried looking on the net, but they no longer seem to exist, probably due to the same laws that have pretty well killed off macrovision defeating technology...

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Hmm, looks like I got lucky when I got my stripper a couple of years ago, then... wink.gif. It's been really invaluable to me as most of my equipment is separates audio components...

Sound Professionals only recently were still selling the 'classic' Midiman C03, but that seems to have gone too, like all the others... oh well, there's always analogue copying, and computer rips are usually SCMS free, I believe...

I expect SCMS strippers pop up on eBay every so often, perhaps under the euphemistic guise of digital signal processors or something, so, it may be worth your while checking there occasionally...

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I expect SCMS strippers pop up on eBay every so often, perhaps under the euphemistic guise of digital signal processors or something, so, it may be worth your while checking there occasionally...

Given my penchant for MDLP kit, eBay is definitely someplace I'll be checking a lot for kit, so I'll add this to the list.

In the meantime I'll be saving for my JE980 and a new Xitel Optical-USB device so I can back up my audio to CD-RW as well, even if it is realtime.

Ah the pleasures of the digital age *ack*...

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Sound Professionals only recently were still selling the 'classic' Midiman C03, but that seems to have gone too, like all the others... oh well, there's always analogue copying, and computer rips are usually SCMS free, I believe...

www.core-sound.com seems to still be offering the M-Audio C03 on their website -- thanks for the pointer! It's US$175, but may be worth it to me.

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  • 4 weeks later...

You can make as many digital recordings as you like from an analogue MD recording. It's only recordings made via a digital input that SCMS prevents from copying again

One commonly forgotten thing about SCMS and digital recordings is that if the original digital recording is considered an "original" then you can indeed make a copy of that MD (just not a copy of the copy). For example if you put a CD in a computer and play it back through the digital output there, the MD recorder will not get SCMS information (because PCs don't conform to SCMS standards). Therefore regardless of the fact that the first recording was digital doesn't matter--the MD unit still flags it as an "original" recording and that MD can be copied, even on SCMS compliant gear. If the same recording were made on a consumer-level CD player then it would be flagged with SCMS and the MD would be considered a digital copy of a copy-protected original and that MD could *not* be copied by SCMS-compliant gear. (Keep in mind though that copying through a PC soundcard's S/PDIF output isn't always "pure" nor can you get track marks out of it.)

Also the original (nameless??) poster in this thread asked about copying the MD to a PC--SCMS will have no effect here. Even if the MD is flagged with SCMS copy-inhibit the PC will just ignore that and you can record to the PC anyway.

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