Hi-MD upload and [not] adhering to SCMS standards

[dex Otaku]

Before you continue, I'm going to make certain assumptions here based on what I've been reading everywhere so far.

Assumption #1: Sony releases the wave convertor program.

Assumption #2: The wave convertor is limited to taking recordings that were made -only- from the analogue inputs of recorders, which is what things suggest to me fo far

That said,

Points about SCMS and/or Hi-MD in reference to its upload capabilities:

* SCMS is entrenched almost industry-wide [at least in North America] and is well-established. It is easily bypassed by those who want to make the effort to do so, but this usually requires at least one additional piece of equipment to strip/reset the SCMS bits. Otherwise, when considering -only- consumer audio equipment [not computers], SCMS does more or less work as intended.

* SCMS follows a certain philosophy regarding what to allow copying of based on what the material's source was - firstly either analogue or digital, and secondly whether professional [sCMS-free] or consumer equipment.

* Running with assumption #2 [which I have no confirmation as being correct, I'm just taking what I've read Sony people having said literally word-for-word], Sony is not complying to SCMS: what has been stated so far is that "recordings from analogue sources can be converted to WAV after upload"; taken literally, this means that anything from a digital source can not be converted, regardless of the state of its SCMS flag [which would be 00, i.e. original recording - same as recording straight from an analogue source - if taken from a "pro" outboard A/D convertor]

* This would suggest that Hi-MD either:

a) differentiates analogue vs. digital source recordings in a way -other- than SCMS, possibly if not probably not even implementing SCMS at all,

or

differentiates source in some way -in addition to- SCMS

* Given the DRM initiatives that the big companies are pushing at the moment, it's almost safe to say that SCMS is being deprecated in favour of the newer, more highly-restrictive systems

Taking all that into account, I'd say it's time for us, the users of said equipment - and many of us here are amateur, professional, or 'enthusiast' recordists for whom the chief purpose of owning an MD or Hi-MD recorder basically falls into the 'professional' category - to send them a clear message about what we think of their shoving DRM down our throats when for all intents and purposes it shouldn't even apply to the majority of us.

Time for another petition, now that things are becoming clearer? Or should we wait for the WAV converter and see whether it complies to SCMS or not?

I'm probably reinventing the wheel by posting this, but the other messages I've read here that related directly to this were old already. So this, perhaps, is the start of an updated single conversation regarding this.

Ah yes, and my last points:

* std-MD conforms to the SCMS standard

* std-MD can be accessed randomly, as the medium itself and track system would imply, as well as the fact that NetMD is possible

* Taking both of those into account, why not allow uploading from standard MD media? Prefab [non-writable] discs are generally SCMS-compliant. NetMD recordings -should- be SCMS compliant. And recordings made from digital or analogue sources -are- SCMS compliant. So why not allow users the chance to upload and archive SCMS-00 [most likely first-generation] recordings? It should be easily possible.

If they're going to allow it from Hi-MD media, why not std-MD? This seems like the most ridiculous thing, to me.

Anyway, sorry for the length, and cheers;

we should put another bug in the industry's ears.

Derek BF Gunnlaugson [dex] - http://dexotaku.ath.cx

sound editing & engineering / field & environmental recording /

audio format transcription, restoration & archival /

videography / video editing / simple post-production /

still photography / image scanning, restoration & archival /

written copy editing / computer repairs and optimisation

[jadeclaw]

It should, but NetMD/Std-MD cannot separate between digital and analog. And the law (AHRA) speaks about digital devices.

Another point: Prefab MDs. Sony is active in adding copyprotection to all CDs, so not allowing the upload of Std-MDs fits exactly the strategy.

However, when a laser can adjust itself to a different media, it would be easy to block upload for prefabs.

But then, that would mean thinking - and we do know that Sony is just another word for 'Not thinking'...

[Ryzir]

Having been into md for quite some time I am in favor of the DRM vs the SCMS. I have battled with SCMS for years with my personal digital recordings and have never really been happy with the hardware that strips the SCMS sode.

Now with DRM it is more software based, software is a lot easier to hack. itunes keeps trying to stay ahead of hackers but you can still get software for the latest itunes that will completely strip the DRM.

Now I'm not saying it's okay to do this and re-distribute the material but I think that it is okay if you are using the files for personal use, which is fine legally.

My 2 Cents

[Andy]

Whenever you record something digitally to MD, it will be recognisable from an analogue recording because of the SCMS bit - I'm assuming this will also stay with the Hi-MD format. I think I read somewhere that the Wav converter wouldn't convert stuff which was recorded digitally, which it would be able to enforce because of the SCMS bit.

DRM vs SCMS? Give me SCMS any day. DRM stuff is way too complex, and there are no standards which means that consumers lose their choice. For example, without DRM stuff, Hi-MD would work perfectly well on Mac, Linux and everything else. On the other hand, it would also be violating SCMS at the same time (if you did a digital recording and it turned up as a plain old wav file which can be freely copied, then there is a SCMS violation.

I'm still hoping that someone without vested interests in the music industry makes a Hi-MD compatible player which can play back and record any files on the disc in a variety of formats. This would be the killer player, and would definately sway me back towards Hi-MD.

[Latexxx]

For example, without DRM stuff, Hi-MD would work perfectly well on Mac, Linux and everything else.

Assuming that you have an Atrac3(plus) encoder for Mac/Linux. On the other hand, nothing stops Sony from creating a Linux/Mac version of Sonic Stage with DRM.