Beethovenian

Mossberg is an Apple fanboy. Some people even call him iDiot in some forums. Don't pay attention to what he writes. By the way, I bought the iPod Classic 160GB. Just couldn't resist having all my music in one device. Now I feel Apple is becoming a Sony. This player reminds me of the A1000/3000 flop, so buggy it is: iTunes keeps freezing while transferring music, there are occasional pauses during music playback, gapless playback is not perfect in some cases (I had another iPod that did it ok), my library got messed up by the new iTunes, some tracks didn't play, forcing me to reset it quite a few times, sometimes the iPod won't be ejected. I've seen some iPod forums and it seems lots of people have these problems. Why doesn't it get more publicized? Well, at least I think Apple will release some kind of update to try to fix these things.

I know, but I still find the interface too dumbed down. You can go fast to the main menu, but that doesn't help you getting immediately back to the track list that you're currently listening to if you browsed away from it. You have to find your way back to that album. The Walkmans could implement many things in its interface in a better way, but still it allows you to view all tracks for the album, genre or artist you're currently listening with simple clicks. If you're listening to a playlist, for instance, and get in the mood to listen to more of the same artist that's playing, you just click on the name of the artist and jumps to his album list. Simple, intelligent. It's that type of interface that also makes me like Windows Media Player, despite its limitations. The iPod and iTunes go so much for the "simplicity" that it becomes dumb, making you do much more than it should be necessary for certain things.

This type of navigation was already in the A3000. It's one of the things I thought are much more intelligently done than the much-praised but severely dumbed down interface of the iPod. I hate how you have to backtrack so much to get to other artists, or even to get to the now playing screen, in the iPod. It's also very annoying how you can't immediately go back to the list of tracks you're listening to in the iPod if you browsed other albums before going back to the now playing screen. Another good thing in the Walkmans is how you can browse both horizontally (A, B, C etc.) and vertically. If the A3000 didn't have such slow response, it would be faster to get to certain albums with it than with the overrated scroll wheel of the iPod. Then again, I would not exchange my iPod for a new Walkman. The bigger capacity and the crucial gapless playback are more important factors.

Now one thing I'd like to know is why Atrac can't be freed of SonicStage. It's just a music file, shouldn't it be possible to release some software that would get rid of its DRM and allow easy transfers? That's the minimum they should do to everybody who bought or ripped a library in their proprietary format. Let faithful clients at least keep using what they've been using. Sony's disregard for older customers (like when they allowed new bitrates in the A series but didn't upgrade the old NW-HD series, and so on) is really upsetting. At least explain why people will have to lose their old files and try to compensate them in some way. Talking about that, does this mean there's no reason for me to keep the Atracs that I backed up for the potential occasion in which I could use them again?

So Sony has finally changed and moved away from SonicStage. The sad thing is that I suppose this means there's no gapless playback anymore. Ironic that the only reason I didn't adopt the iPod at the beginning was its lack of gapless playback. Then, when I was already hating Apple for just becoming the Microsoft of digital music and for the ridiculously worshiping attention it gets from the media, it supplies gaplessness and makes me get one iPod. Then, even having an iPod, I continue hating Apple for the way it dumbs down so many things and hope for Sony (or another, but I don't think any other would have the heft to do it) to come up with a good alternative. And then, finally, Sony tells me Apple will continue to be my only option because it will drop gapless playback (or am I wrong about this?).

Actually, I think the A3000 has a very good interface, more intelligent than the iPod's in many aspects. The use of horizontal browsing to jump whole pages is a smart way to compensate for the lack of a scrolling wheel, and I love the ability to jump to a genre, album or artist list just by clicking on the respective item in the now playing screen. I also find much more useful to be able to change volume when browsing lists than to be able to jump tracks. The iPod's navigation is very dumbed-down, annoyingly so sometimes. It's a advance, advance, advance, go back, go back, go back all the time. The big difference is that the iPod's UI works much more smoothly, because the player has a bigger cache memory. Besides, having a higher resolution screen also helps, by providing more information. If Sony put all the database information in the cache memory, avoiding hard-disk access for browsing and thus speeding it up, and if they had a higher resolution screen, I think it could well be a great interface. Spicing it up with cover art etc. would also help. Oh, and please, it's time some company added Album Artist among the items to browse (not to mention Sony needs to put composer there as well).

So this is Sony's attempt at regaining some market share. It seems fine, though by the time it arrives on the market it will probably be outdated already. What I think is that Sony has to think ahead and offer something new, instead of just trying to offer a little more of the same. Video on a 2 inch screen won't be particularly nice, despite the better battery life. I never watch videos on the 2.5 inch screen of the regular iPod because I consider it too small. Why don't they add bluetooth and make the player act as a cellphone headset, for instance? So you can counter the iPhone with a player that can work with any regular cellphone without locking you into a carrier or a plan. Why don't they add wi-fi and LocationFreeTV playback? (And why don't they make the PS3 work as a LocationFreeTV base?) If they disseminate these services, they can offer something new. Or they can think of something else. Just doing what Apple did years ago doesn't help, though, especially with a media that's ready to diss anything that doesn't come from Apple. That said, I'm curious about this player, though I certainly won't buy it because of capacity. I would love to ditch my iPod for a new Sony player, but 80GB is the minimum capacity acceptable, and it's time Sony adds gapless playback to MP3 as well, not only Atrac.

As usual, an Apple product generates a lot of admiration and hatred. Honestly, the iPhone looks impressive, but for a phone it seems to have some shortcomings that will infuriate users (like the lack of replaceable battery; considering cellphones stay on all the time, the drop in battery life will be much steeper, rendering them unusable well before the end of the 2-year contract). But the next iPod will probably borrow its interface, which copies some of the advances of the Zune's, and that alone must be enough to keep it ahead of any Sony effort. I particularly hate the dominance Apple has achieved on the market. We don't need a Microsoft in the digital media world, and that's very much what Apple is becoming. But competitors are not thinking in advancing the game, they're just trying to catch up with Apple. It may soon be too late.

Giki, I hope you're right, cause I'm sick of seeing the digital music world revolving around the iPod (and I have the damn thing and consider it superior to what Sony has so far offered). We definitely need competition. No monopoly is good for consumers, and iTunes cannot be the new standard for music purchases. People need to be alerted that if they decide in five years the iPod is not cool anymore, they may be stuck with it regardless just because their downloaded music won't play anywhere else. It's too much power for Apple. Still, I'm very skeptical of Sony. The company is suffering on all fronts and doesn't seem to me able to do what it needs, namely getting rid of all the copy protection features that made its products so hard to use. Microsoft may have a better chance. If they design the Zune better and work the software, it may very well be a winner. Its interface is already much more intelligent than the iPod's, and its features are interesting, though badly developed.

Curious how the Whoever vs. iPod continues to rage on. It just feeds my belief that the iPod is the Windows of the digital music world. Flawed, but so overwhelmingly dominant that drives competitors out of the market and infuriates those who don't share the stupid cult that made it a "cool" product -- and I do have in mind the fact that the majority of the iPod users actually don't care about these things, just want something that works. There's no denying the iPod works better than Sony's Walkmans. But it's still so lacking in many aspects, it just shows, as Dinko said, how completely incompetent the other companies are. But just to give my two cents on the battery life debate, let me say that in my experience the iPod drains faster when off than the Walkmans. I have an HD1 that has not been used for at least seven months and it still plays. And the NW-A3000 is still with more than half of its battery after three months of no use (and it wasn't totally full when I stop using it). I've never stayed so long without using the iPod, but when I left it off for a few days, the battery meter was clearly lower. Not much, but lower. That said, I simply cannot go back to the NW-A3000 because, despite liking its sound better, I just hate how sluggish its navigation is. Plus, having gapless playback on MP3s and 80GB is a huge plus. If only somebody made a player good for classical music...

Well, there is a hint of hope there, with the comment that "DRM will be less important." Honestly, I think music companies need to get together and force DAP makers to adopt one single DRM system, otherwise we'll create a monopoly for Apple and become hostages to whatever Steve Jobs demands. I have an iPod, and I'm sick of this domination it has on the market. The iPod may work, may even be better than what other companies offer, but it's a way overrated product that doesn't justify transforming Apple in the Microsoft of digital music. Sony seems to be the only company able to make products that are at least in terms of hardware sexy enough to go against Apple (and I find my iPod ugly, though the nano looks very nice). If they managed to get rid of most DRM, that would go a long way to making their products more usable, since I believe the majority of the problems with SonicStage were DRM-created.

Well, since this thread is back, I'll add my fantasy wish list. Many things I don't really need, but think may help in any attempt to fight the iPod (which I have and find far from wonderful). - Drag & drop and software support. If the PSP has it, why can't a Walkman have it as well? There's really no justification for Sony to avoid drag & drop support. Make the player's firmware be such that it builds itself the database after file transfer. That way, Mac and Linux users would be able to have the player as well. To stimulate usage of the software, Sony could let some features be available only with transfers that use it. For instance, it could allow for gapless playback of any format (of course, supposing they've worked to have it) or synchronized lyrics. - Completely new DRM scheme. OpenMG doesn't work well, period. It's too complicated, makes for lots of lost files, creates the ridiculous situation of blocking the use of Atrac files in Walkman cellphones. Sony should either create a new, less cumbersome DRM system or license one (and if it creates, it should license it to others as well, giving people the confidence that the music they buy will work in the future). Sony should also release some software that would simply eliminate DRM protection from older Atrac files. Let's be real, there are very few people with these files, there's no point in keeping punishing them, they won't create piracy problems. Free those files and gain some goodwill points. - Wide coded support, as aleady mentioned. - Widescreen with high resolution (the PSP's one is good enough for me, as long as it allowed output to a TV of higher resolutions, as the Archos players or the iPod do). - A more intelligent, and fast, interface. XMB may look nice, but I don't know if it's very practical for long lists. I particularly think the A series has a very smart way of letting you browse both horizontally and vertically. It's actually many times faster for me to get to a certain artist or song in that interface than with the iPod's scroll wheel. Also, the iPod's interface is extremely dumbed-down, with lots of backtracking. We need something that lets you change faster from one category to another. The Zune has a very nice and intelligent interface, but it's patented, so something else has to be used. But I like how the A series let you jump from the song to artist, genre or album. It should be something in that line. It just should work fast, not drag as the A series did. For that, Sony has to put more RAM there, so the database can be cached. - Wi-Fi. The Zune doesn't do it right, because of the stupid record companies, but there's a lot of potential there. What if Sony let you use a video Walkman to get content from its LocationFreeTV? What if you could at least stream music and video to other players? (Make the PSP interact with that, and the user base starts in the millions.) What if you could have a little mic there and capture a song you hear on the street, have it identified and be able to buy it directly to the player? What if you could transfer files from the PS3 to the player or vice-versa wirelessly? - Compact size. When Sony launched the HD1, critics said it was just "slightly" smaller than the iPod. Now, the Zune is "much bigger" than the iPod. So there's always the press bias in favour of Apple, which means Sony should do what it always did better than others and miniaturize its new player to the point of putting others to shame, or at least matching the iPod.

I agree with Dinko. Owning now an iPod, I think it sounds noticeably duller than the Walkman, though still pretty decent. Some hard-core audiophiles talk about how the Walkmans are not entirely faithful to the source, since their output curve is not as flat as the iPod's etc., but not being into those things, I can only say the Walkmans sound fuller, with a rounder sound. Having many recordings of music I've seen performed live by the same orchestras and conductors, I can say the Walkmans get me closer to the thrill of the original performance than the iPods. The iPods have less hiss, though (even though they also have it, and it's quite noticeable).

You're right, Dinko. Sadly, because I think the iPod is an overrated product. It's a good one, no doubt, and does what it proposes to do better than others (ah, Sony...), but now that I own one I wonder why the little annoyances I face are never raised by the media, especially when the reviewers may complain about these issues when they talk about iPod competitors. There's an incredible goodwill towards Apple. Somehow it captured the "cool" factor so well that nobody seems to be willing to risk criticizing it, as if you could not be cool doing so. But indeed I see now very few reasons to avoid having one. To me, gapless was the dealbreaker. It stopped being one.

OK, it's been more than a week since I got the 80GB iPod and have been playing around with it, so I think it makes sense to give my opinion on it, from the perspective of someone who has owned the NW-HD1 and the NW-A3000 for the past two years. I still don't like the iPod, or better saying, don't like the aura that people attribute to it, the "I'm so cool it hurts" attitude that is especially prevalent in New York. I also find its design bland (actually, I like the nano, but not the regular iPod that I bought). Still, paying $350 for 80GB and gapless playback is a very good deal, and since I'm not using those iSheeep white headphones, I don't mind how the hidden player in my pocket looks (not counting the fact it fits better in my pocket than the A3000). Sony has much to go before offering something that can match that. I've already mentioned I don't like how iTunes organizes its library, something that has to do with my preference for classical music and to be album-oriented. SonicStage works better in that sense to my tastes. I also had my share of problems with iTunes. Once, it bungled MP3 tags I've edited on it, making a 5 min track list as being 23 min long. I had to use VBRfix to correct lots of files. It also crashed once while updating the iPod, and then, when I went to use the player, some tracks were still in the library, but would simply skip. Had to reset it. That said, iTunes works better than SonicStage for transferring music to the player and to do automatic sync. Connect Player would update a file if you edited metadata, for instance, but you had to be lucky to have it working most of the time as iTunes does. Gapless playback works fine on the iPod. In some files, I notice you can't seek a position just before track transition to check the gaplessness. It doesn't work. But when you play the track from the beginning, the transition goes smoothly. Nice job there, much better than what Sony does, since it's not restricted to a format. Whatever some people say about the neutral sound of iPod or its many qualities, I find the Walkman noticeably better. It sounds more vivid. That becomes apparent when listening at low volumes. I notice I can't listen to the iPod at low volumes (say, less than a third of max) even at night, when ambient noise is much reduced. The sound becomes muddy, details get lost. That doesn't happen with the Walkman, using the exact same headphones, the Shure E3 and Ety's ER6. I use the Walkman without any EQ'ing, and the iPod on classical. The interface of the iPod looks primitive when you think it's still behind, in some aspects, what Rio offered on the Karma three years ago. I don't know why they don't add a context menu. Instead of using the center button for adding tracks or albums to the on-the-go playlist, why don't they give you the option to jump back to the now playing screen, to alter the order of tracks, go to that artist or genre list of albums/tracks? And why pressing menu from the now playing screen always takes you back to the last menu you've seen, instead of the track list of the album you're playing? I understand that may have its uses, but in general it seems to me more natural to go back to the track list. It doesn't make much sense that you may have to click up to six times just to see what the tracks that you're playing are. Sony's interface for the A series have some quite interesting innovations that should be copied by others, like the ability to highlight artist, album or genre names and by clicking on them jump to their respective lists. I also don't think the click wheel makes it much easier than the A series' combination of vertical and horizontal scrolling to browse big lists, since, at least to me, the click wheel is more difficult to control to get to exact names. The whole thing, though, is that the iPod is better executed. There's nothing of those stupid lags you find in the A series to get to the menu. It's not a fantastic player, but does its job.

I'm very much like Dinko. I don't care about smart playlists and everything that may want to decide anything for me. What I do care in a media player is ease of use in terms of library organization. For my listening habits, even SonicStage is better than iTunes. And WMP 11 is much better than anything else I've seen. I love how it displays piles of covers either by genre, composer, artist, album artist etc. and then, when you go to a particular list of songs, lets you jump to everything for that artist, genre or year just with one click. It's intelligent and flexible.

It would be nice if Sandisk's players were gapless. I actually find the e200 series more attractive than the nano. Not that I would buy it, since I caved in and ordered an 80GB iPod. But it would be nice to see other options for gapless playback, and frankly I still don't see what's so great about iTunes. Maybe synchronization features, easy transfers etc., but in terms of library organization, it's in my opinion years behind WMP 11. I downloaded iTunes 7 and despite finding the fancy cover browser pretty and the operation reasonably smooth, have the general impression that it's not practical. For someone with lots of music (I have about 1,600 CDs) and album-oriented, iTunes can be a mess. Anyway, I decided not to wait for Sony to improve its offers, simply because I don't believe they'll be much better than what Apple has to offer now. It seems to me it will take quite some time for Sony to get its act together, sadly.

The Gigabeat S plays WMA Lossless, but for use in the NW-A series, what you can do is convert those files to Atrac. Since SonicStage recognizes and converts WMA Lossless, you can set it to convert on-the-fly during transfer to the Walkman. The problem is that it will be very slow.

Funny, I realized I don't like the iPod when, learning that it now plays gaplessly, I was kind of disappointed to see I don't have any serious reason to avoid it. The thing is, it's hard to see a better option now, unless the Zune is truly wonderful. I don't like the iPod's design, find it bland, but it's not a dealbreaker. I hate the "it's cool" aura it got, but sometimes you have to go with the majority. I need more than just 20GB, and the 80GB I can get in an iPod fits more or less my needs, since I dream of having all the music I could want to listen to in the player. Plus, even though I find the iPod's interface in need of some improvement, it at least responds fast. Sony's wait every time I want to access the menu, aggravated in the A series, gets on my nerves sometimes. The iPod has also a higher resolution screen (visible in sunlight) that displays much more information per line. For my classical music collection (90% of my music), that's very useful. The iPod even lets you see lyrics. Not that I'll go adding them to my tracks, but it's useful for albums with lots of performers, like an opera. I can use for artist just the main names and put all singers and their roles in the lyrics, for instance. I wish the iPod had Album Artist as well. I'll wait to see what Microsoft has to offer with the Zune. For one, I like the PMC interface, the ability to see cover art thumbnails when browsing the list of albums, for example. But since the rumour was that the 30GB Zune would cost the price of the 80GB iPod, it's hard to justify waiting for it, especially if it doesn't have gapless playback, as the Toshiba Gigabeat. As for Sony, I wish it had something great to offer, but they're delaying even the launch of its sports Walkman, and they're still insisting in those impossible to read under the sun OLED screens.

I think it's time to say bye to Sony. The new iPod is supposed to have gapless playback. I don't really like iPods, but it's hard to stay away from them when you can have 80GB and gapless playback with a decent size and price, especially considering the prospects of getting that from Sony are thin. Too bad. Sony fumbled big time.

Wow, Ascariss, I hadn't noticed this change of heart, you used to be so much more positive on Sony. It just shows how Sony is way behind the curve. So sad. The only thing that's keeping me with Sony is gapless playback, and the fact that I dislike the available Rockbox options (no iPod for me). And I don't even have a big problem with SonicStage. Like its interface better than iTunes's, actually (I still don't see what's great about iTunes; I think WMP 11 has a much better interface). But all the features they added for the A series just bother me. ArtistLink is a useless gimmick, and having a Favourites playlist that can only be updated after connecting to the computer is silly. I also concluded I don't like these OLED screens. Give me a regular LCD with higher resolution that displays more lines and more characters per line and can be read in sunlight anytime. One thing to make me hopeful is that Archos says its new generation 4 of players are truly gapless. If that's confirmed, I'll consider seriously going for one of those. It may also suggest that manufacturers are starting to get the grips on the gapless issue, and who knows, maybe more players will come that manage to avoid those pauses. I wish Sony surprised us with something great, though. But don't have hopes. Oh, and I think Sony should ditch the Walkman brand. It doesn't work anymore. People don't want Walkmans, they want something new, cooler.

Crossfade to zero doesn't equal perfect gaplessness in iTunes. I've tried with many different classical pieces, and the transition is noticeable. Sometimes there's a little click, sometimes it chews parts of the music and makes the transition awkward. It sounds perfectly fine for most pop music, but it's not gapless, unfortunately.

Rockbox is an interesting proposition, but I've been somehow reluctant to try it. Maybe it's because I don't like the iPod as a device itself, find it bland, repetitive, and the other Rockbox options are even less appealing (my favourite player, in terms of design, is the Gigabeat S, but Rockbox would probably kill its already poor battery life). But I may consider in the future (will have to, if Sony decides to abandon Atrac in favour of AAC). As for the A series, I think it shows some interesting ideas in the navigation department, but it's too big for its capacity and too slow to operate. RAM is cheap enough. Sony should have eliminated already those stupid accessing times to the database every time you want to do something. And the screen is so damn impossible to read in this summer sunnier days...

The problem, as I understand, is that he cannot even access the files through Windows Explorer. Then I really don't see any solution. If it were possible to copy the files to the hard-drive, assuming they're not copy protected, it would be easy to restore file names correctly. It would just be a matter of using the backup tool, delete the original library and restore from the backup tool. But if you cannot even save the files, there may be some hard-drive problem, and that makes everything more complicated.

Sad how Sony seems to be getting hit from all sides lately, considering also the battery recall. I wish they had something good in the wings, but apparently things won't change much for the next year. The Zune seems to be just a souped-up Gigabeat S, and if that's really the case, it won't be gapless. I had some hopes. So, that would mean Sony will continue being the only gapless option, and the way Sony is going, I doubt they'll improve much on the A series, and that is bad. Marketing-wise, it wouldn't make a dent in the iPod. Maybe Sony should just drop the whole Walkman brand and try something more daring. I know they invested a lot in it, but it just doesn't catch anymore. People think of something old, not an iPod (or Zune) competitor. Just don't drop Atrac. Somebody has to offer gapless playback. This is getting ridiculous. And I agree with Pata: iTunes is not gapless. Crossfade can mimic reasonably well, but that depends on the music. With some, the gap will be noticeable regardless of the value you use for the crossfade.